[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

Saying key fobs are useless is an insane take, lol. Literally one of the best things to happen to car keys ever. Just leave your singular fob in your pocket and get into the car. I don't see how that's not an improvement, especially when every car I've owned has had at least one failsafe in case the fob dies (which has never happened without a low battery warning to me in 15 years).

They're shite.

The car goes fucking mental if it's on and say the wife runs inside to get something and she has the fob. Relentless fucking blaring beeps. Then you've got to keep track of the fucking thing because it's not in the ignition so who has the fob, me? The wife? Who fucking knows. And finally it an open door for thieves.

Any why? We could remote open without a fob so what does it offer?

[BenitoBlanco]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

They're shite.

The car goes fucking mental if it's on and say the wife runs inside to get something and she has the fob. Relentless fucking blaring beeps. Then you've got to keep track of the fucking thing because it's not in the ignition so who has the fob, me? The wife? Who fucking knows. And finally it an open door for thieves.

Any why? We could remote open without a fob so what does it offer?

Uh...what car are you driving that does that? I've owned three cars now with fobs (two of them BMW) and none of them have had "relentless fucking blaring beeps" if the person with the fob walks away from the car. At most it just says the key is not present and that goes away when they return.

I personally don't have trouble keeping track of my fob as I keep them the same place I would keep my keys when not driving the car. I don't personally have an issue with losing the fob while driving the car, lol. The car won't even let you lock the fob in and as you mentioned, will let you know if the fob isn't in proximity.

Finally, I don't see how a fob is any easier for thieves than just taking your standard car keys from you. If you are referring to the thieves who use repeaters to get into cars, I do not store my fob that close to the car so it's not an issue for me, and I have not heard of any BMWs being stolen that way. The car is pretty good at differentiating if the fob is in your pocket in the car/next to the door or even 5 feet away from the car - I am guessing some of that tech probably extends to the signal being repeated also.

Edit: I see now you drive a Saab...can't speak for those. Between Infiniti and BMW, the fobs have been excellent for me.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

Uh...what car are you driving that does that? I've owned three cars now with fobs (two of them BMW) and none of them have had "relentless fucking blaring beeps" if the person with the fob walks away from the car. At most it just says the key is not present and that goes away when they return.

I personally don't have trouble keeping track of my fob as I keep them the same place I would keep my keys when not driving the car. I don't personally have an issue with losing the fob while driving the car, lol. The car won't even let you lock the fob in and as you mentioned, will let you know if the fob isn't in proximity.

Finally, I don't see how a fob is any easier for thieves than just taking your standard car keys from you. If you are referring to the thieves who use repeaters to get into cars, I do not store my fob that close to the car so it's not an issue for me, and I have not heard of any BMWs being stolen that way. The car is pretty good at differentiating if the fob is in your pocket in the car/next to the door or even 5 feet away from the car - I am guessing some of that tech probably extends to the signal being repeated also.

Edit: I see now you drive a Saab...can't speak for those. Between Infiniti and BMW, the fobs have been excellent for me.

BMW's E46 key set up is perfect. Metal key and fob all in one.

[BenitoBlanco]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMW's E46 key set up is perfect. Metal key and fob all in one.

G80, G20, and even my 08 G37 did also. Out of the aforementioned 15 years I’ve had fobs, they’ve all had actual keys inside them as a failsafe.

I just got back from 2 Day M School in SC and I rented a car with fob but no automatic lock/unlock tap on the door handle. You don’t realize how annoying it is to not have that and have to physically pull the keys out of your pocket every time until you’re forced to do it again.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

G80, G20, and even my 08 G37 did also. Out of the aforementioned 15 years I’ve had fobs, they’ve all had actual keys inside them as a failsafe.

I just got back from 2 Day M School in SC and I rented a car with fob but no automatic lock/unlock tap on the door handle. You don’t realize how annoying it is to not have that and have to physically pull the keys out of your pocket every time until you’re forced to do it again.

No, the E46 is not a failsafe key. The E46 is a physical metal key with a built-in electronics package that houses the "open", "close", and "trunk open" buttons in the head of the key. The ignition switch is physically operated by the metal key. You must insert the metal key into the ignition switch to unlock the steering column and start the engine. It's three-factor security ignition system.

My E90 has the key (fob) system where the metal back up key is in the plastic button housing. The E90 is a mix though, because the fob is inserted into a slot on the dash that electromechanically unlocks the steering column. It's a two-factor security system.

My Bronco uses the auxiliary metal key-fob system, which apparently have proven hackable by flooding the key with RF to gain access to the coding system to clone the key and steal the vehicle.

I think for security purposes the E46 key is the best design solution.

[BlkGS]

Y'all clearly don't remember back in the day when people would jam screwdrivers into lock cylinders to bypass this all. Or break the column lock and hotwire a car.

Thieves have been able to steal stuff forever. Whether it's hacking it or breaking into it and hotwiring it, bad people have always been doing it, and will always do it (unless we really cracked down on it).

All that said, I was thinking about the gas caps getting gas yesterday. My G05 has a cap with two tabs on the side, so it only goes in one way. Every car I've had before this just had screw threads on the cap and you could thread it on from basically anywhere. Interesting that BMW decided to come up with a slightly different design for it.

[BenitoBlanco]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No, the E46 is not a failsafe key. The E46 is a physical metal key with a built-in electronics package that houses the "open", "close", and "trunk open" buttons in the head of the key. The ignition switch is physically operated by the metal key. You must insert the metal key into the ignition switch to unlock the steering column and start the engine. It's three-factor security ignition system.

My E90 has the key (fob) system where the metal back up key is in the plastic button housing. The E90 is a mix though, because the fob is inserted into a slot on the dash that electromechanically unlocks the steering column. It's a two-factor security system.

My Bronco uses the auxiliary metal key-fob system, which apparently have proven hackable by flooding the key with RF to gain access to the coding system to clone the key and steal the vehicle.

I think for security purposes the E46 key is the best design solution.

Without being a BMW tech, I am going to go out on a limb and say my G80 and other current model BMWs are much harder to steal than your E90 would be.

I don't think the metal key is helping you as much as you think, and I don't think the fob signal is as easy to duplicate as you think, or we would see a LOT more stolen M3s and M4s.

[MADBMWX5MC]

2021 Jeep GC SRT no gas cap = no issues. All is good.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

Without being a BMW tech, I am going to go out on a limb and say my G80 and other current model BMWs are much harder to steal than your E90 would be.

I don't think the metal key is helping you as much as you think, and I don't think the fob signal is as easy to duplicate as you think, or we would see a LOT more stolen M3s and M4s.

Most cars stolen intentionally (not crimes of convenience) are stolen for parts. Things like dodge 392s and hellcats are stolen because the motors and interiors can be yanked out easily and sold easily and quickly. Big market for those items, so they're easily sold. She.goes for most Hondas and all that.

People don't steal M3s and M4s because the front ends are so ugly (sorry, couldn't resist), and because there's just not a big community of people to sell those parts to. People don't swap those motors into stuff with the same frequency as these V8s.

[unluky]

I've had 2 fords with this prior and neither of them had any issues. Probably 6-8 years total ownership? It was strange the first time and as someone who drives on gravel sometimes I wondered, but zero issues ever with them.

[BenitoBlanco]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Most cars stolen intentionally (not crimes of convenience) are stolen for parts. Things like dodge 392s and hellcats are stolen because the motors and interiors can be yanked out easily and sold easily and quickly. Big market for those items, so they're easily sold. She.goes for most Hondas and all that.

People don't steal M3s and M4s because the front ends are so ugly (sorry, couldn't resist), and because there's just not a big community of people to sell those parts to. People don't swap those motors into stuff with the same frequency as these V8s.

Sales numbers beg to differ when it comes to your assertion about the G8x grille - they broke records last year. I get the most compliments on the IOMG paint, and second most on the front end being very aggressive and eye-catching. I didn't like it at first either, but it's much better in person and other photos than BMW represented it when it was initially announced. Also makes a lot more sense when you consider the vertical kidney grille is a homage to the vertical kidney grille on the E30, etc.

Also gotta point out how dumb the idea of a thief not stealing a car because they think the front end is ugly is. I don't think car thieves are that discerning. They are joyriding, selling for some else to use to commit a crime, or stealing for parts as you mentioned. They are not stealing these cars to bring them to meets or otherwise act like they legitimately belong to them.

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with a gas cap.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

Sales numbers beg to differ when it comes to your assertion about the G8x grille - they broke records last year. I get the most compliments on the IOMG paint, and second most on the front end being very aggressive and eye-catching. I didn't like it at first either, but it's much better in person and other photos than BMW represented it when it was initially announced. Also makes a lot more sense when you consider the vertical kidney grille is a homage to the vertical kidney grille on the E30, etc.

Also gotta point out how dumb the idea of a thief not stealing a car because they think the front end is ugly is. I don't think car thieves are that discerning. They are joyriding, selling for some else to use to commit a crime, or stealing for parts as you mentioned. They are not stealing these cars to bring them to meets or otherwise act like they legitimately belong to them.

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with a gas cap.

The grill part was a joke. You guys with your buckteeth cars are really sensitive about how ugly they are, jeez. I'd think you'd be used to being the ugly butt of all the jokes by now, lol.

But like I said, people aren't swapping these motors into stuff the way 392s and hellcats get swapped. It's a lot harder to find a buyer for a stolen S58 engine than it is a hellcat motor.

I've seen plenty of them in person, still ugly. It needs that black horizontal bar to be body color and shaped a bit, it'd look a lot better that way.

Anyways, what kind of gas cap comes on the new M3s? Is it also ugly? I kid, I kid.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

Sales numbers beg to differ when it comes to your assertion about the G8x grille - they broke records last year. I get the most compliments on the IOMG paint, and second most on the front end being very aggressive and eye-catching. I didn't like it at first either, but it's much better in person and other photos than BMW represented it when it was initially announced. Also makes a lot more sense when you consider the vertical kidney grille is a homage to the vertical kidney grille on the E30, etc.

Also gotta point out how dumb the idea of a thief not stealing a car because they think the front end is ugly is. I don't think car thieves are that discerning. They are joyriding, selling for some else to use to commit a crime, or stealing for parts as you mentioned. They are not stealing these cars to bring them to meets or otherwise act like they legitimately belong to them.

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with a gas cap.

As a former long-time original owner of an E30...

I take offense to that statement.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The grill part was a joke. You guys with your buckteeth cars are really sensitive about how ugly they are, jeez. I'd think you'd be used to being the ugly butt of all the jokes by now, lol.

But like I said, people aren't swapping these motors into stuff the way 392s and hellcats get swapped. It's a lot harder to find a buyer for a stolen S58 engine than it is a hellcat motor.

I've seen plenty of them in person, still ugly. It needs that black horizontal bar to be body color and shaped a bit, it'd look a lot better that way.

Anyways, what kind of gas cap comes on the new M3s? Is it also ugly? I kid, I kid.

An ugly gas cap... a beaver butt with the tail tucked under.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MADBMWX5MC

2021 Jeep GC SRT no gas cap = no issues. All is good.

Right... necessary for the in-flight refueling...

[MADBMWX5MC]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Right... necessary for the in-flight refueling...

Ha! So true, that beast is wicked fast and sucks a lot of fuel...

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by MADBMWX5MC

Ha! So true, that beast is wicked fast and sucks a lot of fuel...

Compared to my Trailblazer SS, that Jeep is downright thrifty. My TBSS does like 11-12 city driving it as gingerly as one can.

[BenitoBlanco]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The grill part was a joke. You guys with your buckteeth cars are really sensitive about how ugly they are, jeez. I'd think you'd be used to being the ugly butt of all the jokes by now, lol.

Couldn't be farther from the truth. I am over the moon with my car, absolutely love it especially since correcting the minor things I didn't like (exhaust being too tame and ASD on). Was just sharing my experience, because personally I also thought the front end was hideous at first until I saw it in person and saw some non-BMW photos online of people with really nice builds.

I've never driven a car that gets so many random people driving by or walking down the street clapping, mouthing "damn!" or throwing thumbs up. It's a trip. Picking up friends is always a fun experience because they get a kick out of it.

Most big design changes meet resistance at first and then people start coming around after a while if the design stands the test of time so to speak - that definitely appears to be the case with the G8x platform.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

Couldn't be farther from the truth. I am over the moon with my car, absolutely love it especially since correcting the minor things I didn't like (exhaust being too tame and ASD on). Was just sharing my experience, because personally I also thought the front end was hideous at first until I saw it in person and saw some non-BMW photos online of people with really nice builds.

I've never driven a car that gets so many random people driving by or walking down the street clapping, mouthing "damn!" or throwing thumbs up. It's a trip. Picking up friends is always a fun experience because they get a kick out of it.

Most big design changes meet resistance at first and then people start coming around after a while if the design stands the test of time so to speak - that definitely appears to be the case with the G8x platform.

Eh, most BMW enthusiasts have poo poo'd it. And how you ever get to an E30 theme from it, I'll never comprehend that. Sorry.

[BenitoBlanco]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Eh, most BMW enthusiasts have poo poo'd it. And how you ever get to an E30 theme from it, I'll never comprehend that. Sorry.

You're misunderstanding me, I am not saying the G80 is anything close to the E30, but I am saying that the design cue of the grille is a reference to the vertical kidney grille that the E30 and other older BMWs and M cars have had in the past.

Not claiming whatsoever that the G80 has an "E30 theme" about it.

[RM7]

There are some cars that claim any new car is polarizing and after a while, you will like it better than the last. This is false IMO. I love my 2016-2018 front end, in 2019 it went to hell and they started using gaping-front ends, smiley faces, whatever, but the ZL1 kept the 2018 front...I think for it's entire run. This was clearly better IMO.

Same with BMW. The F3x front end was never quite as good as the one before. There's that kind of weird kink and I think the family design works for the 5-series, but in the 3-series it seemed ill-suited. But the F3x wasn't bad either, I always think the 4GC F36 should have been the F30 design, because THAT was a lot smoother and didn't have the hood kink. The G2x is an improvement I think, not huge bit it kind f smooths out some of the F3x issues...whilst adding some gaudy body lines on the side...but not horrid.

So I definitely like earlier designs and newer designs do not distract me and eventually make me forget the earlier ones that were better. The new giant gaping beaver-fronts are not good IMO. Way over-compensating in the styling department.

See Audi IMO for clean smooth designs. The giant intake is a little out of proportion on the RS3, but otherwise at least its continuous and they really do a better job of making the car appealing without making it gaudy.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BenitoBlanco

You're misunderstanding me, I am not saying the G80 is anything close to the E30, but I am saying that the design cue of the grille is a reference to the vertical kidney grille that the E30 and other older BMWs and M cars have had in the past.

Not claiming whatsoever that the G80 has an "E30 theme" about it.

Well, the 328 from 1936 to 1940 and then post-war 1950s BMWs, like the 501, had big vertical kidney grills. A lot of BMW designs pay homage to them. But the G8X is not a good execution. It just did pan out.