[roastbeef]

there has been a few people pm'ing me asking about my vending machine venture, so i thought i would put it all out there in case anyone else was curious.

i used craigslist to search for "vending routes for sale." through research and my own findings, i found that machines or routes sell for what they gross in a year. sometimes the yearly gross plus the cost of the machine(s) if they are good machines. it is all in what you negotiate.
i got into my route for $7,500 and made about $400-500 in profit each month (sometimes less, sometimes more, but $400-500 was predictable). i ended up selling the machines for $7k just to get rid of them when i was done exploring the venture.

locations can be hard to locate, and some want 10% of your gross profits for the machine(s) they host. others are happy to have your machines there since the machines provide a service to their customers and employees. it is all in your negotiation and agreement when you pitch the deal with the host of the location. i liked buying already placed machines, because a good vendor will keep a spread sheet and you can tell right away from a few month's review if you are buying a dud, or a producing machine. if they can't provide you with a record of monthly sales for an individual machine (or location if multiple machines at one location) then i would walk away.

i got my food products from distributors that sell to food trucks, vending machine operators, and ice cream trucks. they are around in your area, you just have to look. i also shopped at sams club. i like costco better, but they sell the size of water bottle i needed (too thin of a bottle compressed under the weight of the other bottles and didn't vend right). i also liked how sam's club broke down the individual price of an item in a pack. for example, if i bought a box of a dozen mini cookie bags for $5, it said "$0.42 each", and i knew i could sell them for $1 each. this makes it easy to predict prices or try new products that could have larger profit margins.

drinks are by far the most profitable. frozen food can be a pain in the ass since you have to keep it cool while transporting. candy can also melt if you don't control the temperature (i used coolers and ice packs to keep boxes of candy bars relatively cool on hot days).
i worked out of the trunk of my e46 some days, or used my desert truck (not much of a bed), but realized expanding operations would require a van (i didn't want a third vehicle) and significantly more money invested.

vending machines have been around for decades, and what we know as a modern vending machine has been around since about the 70's. so they are pretty polished as far as efficiency and reliability goes. you'll pay more for machines that can recognize multiple bills or have coin changers that can give more than just quarters. you'll also pay more for a machine that can be programmed to individually price each item in each row. just like finding a food/candy distributor, you'll have to dig and find a local vending machine guy that can/will fix your machines. some of the things i could do myself, its just a really basic computer and some electric motors that turn to vend product.

so it was either sell it or go bigger, and i wanted to invest in real estate, so i sold it and bought a rental property. i enjoyed it, but it would never quite be what i wanted it to be without more work and more money invested. since it was a side job, i decided to just appreciate the experience and move on. i sold my route for a little less than what i paid, just to get rid of it, but i made a little scratch while doing it, so it was fine.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

If you had $340k you could invest in a Lexus LFA. These cars have begun appreciating and I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the $500s within a few years.

i couldn't keep up with a short term loan for that amount.

i remember in high school seeing a ford gt in the showroom for $115k (i thnk) and thinking that was nuts. oh how i wish i had bought that car!

problem is, you never know what is going to tank or double in value!

[hl0m4n]

hey roast i too did the vending machines for a few years a couple back with 2 friends.

when i got out we had 11 machines and now they up to 26. our niche was healthy machines so we only vended out pop chips, nature valley bars, natural drinks, etc.

we started off at local schools then got to the ymca and jccs.

it was incredible the profit margin especially on water. go to costco pick up a case of poland spring and unit cost was like .10 and we vended for $1.25-1.75 depending on location.

when schools are on summer vacation we just moved them to the baseball parks, etc to keep them running.

i don't know what type of machines you had but each one was about $8k and they avged about $90-$120 a day.

when i wanted out, the schools were really laying down new rules about calories, had to pay a separate tax for dairy products, etc; although still profitable it cut into our end.

also it got to a point where 20+ machines we needed to hire a driver to keep stocking them. if my friends get the college account they have been working on for a while they will be up to ~76 machines... can't imagine what that would be like....

easily manageable and profitable at start but once you get going its hard to stop but you def need more help and hours put in along the way.

[roastbeef]

right! easy to do, easy to manage, and easy to make money. but, i would have had to have more involvement in it for it to be what i wanted it to be. i just didn't want to invest more time or money when i knew i was going to get out of it.

one of my machines was at a motel. tweakers and potheads lived there and i was able to experiment with different product to squeeze out maximum sales. top sellers ended up being butterfingers, hershey's cookies and cream bars, chili cheese fritos, and something else i can't remember... that machine grossed $800/month and i had to go twice a week to stock it.

some kid and his dad also lived there. the kid would always like to watch me open the machine and stock it. i would always ask him if he was a good boy this week and his dad would say yes, and i would let him pick something out of the machine for free. mostly tweakers there, but the dad didn't fit the profile. felt bad for the kid.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by gtron

read the original post and shut the hell up about stocks. there's already a thread for stocks. go post there. effing ruining a potentially good thread.

Originally Posted by bimmerfrk

Sounds like you lost some money in the market today

Originally Posted by gtron

to be honest, it was early and i was on my first cup of coffee. i clicked this thread thinking there might be something unique in here and when it was the same ol' stuff. i might have over reacted. hehe

[N55]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Wow! No kidding?! People can easily make 2-5% (initially) per day through day trading?

Congratulations on easily achieving a level of performance that far outpaces even the top hedge funds on earth at the tender age of 18

I did say at the end that you can lose big too...

When I day trade I only look for a $.10 to $.15 gain. I use a 3 Day RSI indicator, 6 day RSI Indicator and, a 14 day RSI indicator.

For example with $100k and a $20/share security (That is high volume and volatility) You need a stock that has 10¢ or more swings in under 10 minutes.

You buy 5000 shares of company xyz @ $20.00/share. Set a limit sell order for $20.10 and a stop loss at $19.80 (Varies case by case**) You wait seconds to minutes for it to gain $.10 ($20.10), you pocket the $500 gain (Minus commissions).

Rinse and repeat. Now you will lose a few times from your stop losses. I minimize this from using the 3 indicators.

Say you made 11 trades today, you were able to get the $.10 gain 8/11 times. That's +$4000, but you lost on 3/11 trades -$1500. You netted $2500 today. (Minus commissions of course, and assuming you were continuously able to purchase 5000 shares after the few losses (have extra money in the account but only trade with $100k))



Look at it how you want though. I do have days where I am in the hole for $2k within the first few trades, I get discouraged and call it a day early on those days and take a breather, because emotions can really screw you.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by N55

I did say at the end that you can lose big too...

When I day trade I only look for a $.10 to $.15 gain. I use a 3 Day RSI indicator, 6 day RSI Indicator and, a 14 day RSI indicator.

For example with $100k and a $20/share security (That is high volume and volatility) You need a stock that has 10¢ or more swings in under 10 minutes.

You buy 5000 shares of company xyz @ $20.00/share. Set a limit sell order for $20.10 and a stop loss at $19.80 (Varies case by case**) You wait seconds to minutes for it to gain $.10 ($20.10), you pocket the $500 gain (Minus commissions).

Rinse and repeat. Now you will lose a few times from your stop losses. I minimize this from using the 3 indicators.

Say you made 11 trades today, you were able to get the $.10 gain 8/11 times. That's +$4000, but you lost on 3/11 trades -$1500. You netted $2500 today. (Minus commissions of course, and assuming you were continuously able to purchase 5000 shares after the few losses (have extra money in the account but only trade with $100k))



Look at it how you want though. I do have days where I am in the hole for $2k within the first few trades, I get discouraged and call it a day early on those days and take a breather, because emotions can really screw you.

If you're making hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year day trading with very small amounts of money (<=$100k) as a side hobby at the age of 18, don't let me stop you. More power to you.

But don't be surprised when people are skeptical that you're able to achieve annual returns in the realm of 800% ($2000 per day for 365 days with an initial investment of $100k) using nothing but amateur hour quant techniques (macd, rsi, etc.). If you're re-investing capital gains then it's more like 5000% (2% returns compounded daily through 200 trading days i.e. (1.02)^200, income tax notwithstanding).

Anyone with enough gumption to read a few hour's worth of text online can learn to use these indicators for day trading, but I'll bet you a nickel that 99.99999999% of them aren't achieving anywhere near the level of success that you're claiming to achieve so easily.

[MrPrena]

After working at financial company as an ANALyst, I thought investing was easy. I thought same way as N55 did.

-I knew more math than above average analysts did. (which risk analysts applies any math higher than ODE? Applying Complex Var, PDE, and Abs Alg was normal for me).
-I knew more econometric, regression, error, risk analysis than average analysts at a top firm did.
-I knew most of macro and micro theories that sure do apply into the market, sectors, and industries and see how $$ can shift.
-I studied each sectors like I worked there. To cover biotech around 2002, I read all types of studies/journals/and molecular patents even BEFORE they officially made it a pipeline.

HOWEVER, there is no end. It is like damn Astrophysics. More crap I learn, More blanks I have. It is not easy. It is easy now, because it is one of the biggest bull market run. It would not be easy making $$ on shorting and playing around with PUTs and Writing all these options.

At the end, I just invest. After overthinking/overanalyzing, I tend to miss the target price by 5%.

Originally Posted by N55

I did say at the end that you can lose big too...

When I day trade I only look for a $.10 to $.15 gain. I use a 3 Day RSI indicator, 6 day RSI Indicator and, a 14 day RSI indicator.

For example with $100k and a $20/share security (That is high volume and volatility) You need a stock that has 10¢ or more swings in under 10 minutes.

You buy 5000 shares of company xyz @ $20.00/share. Set a limit sell order for $20.10 and a stop loss at $19.80 (Varies case by case**) You wait seconds to minutes for it to gain $.10 ($20.10), you pocket the $500 gain (Minus commissions).

Rinse and repeat. Now you will lose a few times from your stop losses. I minimize this from using the 3 indicators.

Say you made 11 trades today, you were able to get the $.10 gain 8/11 times. That's +$4000, but you lost on 3/11 trades -$1500. You netted $2500 today. (Minus commissions of course, and assuming you were continuously able to purchase 5000 shares after the few losses (have extra money in the account but only trade with $100k))



Look at it how you want though. I do have days where I am in the hole for $2k within the first few trades, I get discouraged and call it a day early on those days and take a breather, because emotions can really screw you.

Originally Posted by NemesisX

If you're making hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year day trading with very small amounts of money (<=$100k) as a side hobby at the age of 18, don't let me stop you. More power to you.

But don't be surprised when people are skeptical that you're able to achieve annual returns in the realm of 800% ($2000 per day for 365 days with an initial investment of $100k) using nothing but amateur hour quant techniques (macd, rsi, etc.). If you're re-investing capital gains then it's more like 5000% (2% returns compounded daily through 200 trading days i.e. (1.02)^200, income tax notwithstanding).

Anyone with enough gumption to read a few hour's worth of text online can learn to use these indicators for day trading, but I'll bet you a nickel that 99.99999999% of them aren't achieving anywhere near the level of success that you're claiming to achieve so easily.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

If you're making hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year day trading with very small amounts of money (<=$100k) as a side hobby at the age of 18, don't let me stop you. More power to you.

But don't be surprised when people are skeptical that you're able to achieve annual returns in the realm of 800% ($2000 per day for 365 days with an initial investment of $100k) using nothing but amateur hour quant techniques (macd, rsi, etc.). If you're re-investing capital gains then it's more like 5000% (2% returns compounded daily through 200 trading days i.e. (1.02)^200, income tax notwithstanding).

Anyone with enough gumption to read a few hour's worth of text online can learn to use these indicators for day trading, but I'll bet you a nickel that 99.99999999% of them aren't achieving anywhere near the level of success that you're claiming to achieve so easily.

All of what THIS man just said.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by N55

I did say at the end that you can lose big too...

When I day trade I only look for a $.10 to $.15 gain. I use a 3 Day RSI indicator, 6 day RSI Indicator and, a 14 day RSI indicator.

For example with $100k and a $20/share security (That is high volume and volatility) You need a stock that has 10¢ or more swings in under 10 minutes.

You buy 5000 shares of company xyz @ $20.00/share. Set a limit sell order for $20.10 and a stop loss at $19.80 (Varies case by case**) You wait seconds to minutes for it to gain $.10 ($20.10), you pocket the $500 gain (Minus commissions).

Rinse and repeat. Now you will lose a few times from your stop losses. I minimize this from using the 3 indicators.

Say you made 11 trades today, you were able to get the $.10 gain 8/11 times. That's +$4000, but you lost on 3/11 trades -$1500. You netted $2500 today. (Minus commissions of course, and assuming you were continuously able to purchase 5000 shares after the few losses (have extra money in the account but only trade with $100k))



Look at it how you want though. I do have days where I am in the hole for $2k within the first few trades, I get discouraged and call it a day early on those days and take a breather, because emotions can really screw you.

N55, There is no brokerage house nor discount brokerage house would let you trade $100k worth of trading 10 TIMES PER INTRADAY! PERIOD! I wasn't a trader at a firm, but I work really really closely with professional mover/Trader. IF you have $100k in the money market, any firm would not let you trade $100k worth of trade 10times in 1 day!


T+3.

Originally Posted by NemesisX

If you're making hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year day trading with very small amounts of money (<=$100k) as a side hobby at the age of 18, don't let me stop you. More power to you.

But don't be surprised when people are skeptical that you're able to achieve annual returns in the realm of 800% ($2000 per day for 365 days with an initial investment of $100k) using nothing but amateur hour quant techniques (macd, rsi, etc.). If you're re-investing capital gains then it's more like 5000% (2% returns compounded daily through 200 trading days i.e. (1.02)^200, income tax notwithstanding).

Anyone with enough gumption to read a few hour's worth of text online can learn to use these indicators for day trading, but I'll bet you a nickel that 99.99999999% of them aren't achieving anywhere near the level of success that you're claiming to achieve so easily.

Very well said NemesisX !!!
There are so many Technical for Dummies that it isn't funny.
All the crap that CMT wanna be talks about makes me ROFL. Those crap are for sheepies. Worse part is, I think these sheepies use "eyeball" (eye fk) method to calculate RSI, SMA, EMA, MACD, crap. Yes, those basic middle school math technical diagram with dry marker lines on the chart DOES help, but there are people who are actually using WAY more complicated stuff than these middle school Algebra Technical Analysis.

This is why I don't talk basic technical talk at TA forum.
If someone actually do reg analysis and run metric. Apply that with linear/exponential in Cartesian, Spherical, or Cylindrical coordinates, it is just 10-15% done.

[gtron]

three sips into my first cup of coffee.

*silently leaves thread*

lol

[Razzy]

Day trading isn't a gateway to "easy money". There is no "easy" button and if there ever was, day trading would not be it.

It's easy to get caught up in your own hype when you make 2% a day or whatever for the first couple weeks. Than lose 3% a day the next 2 weeks.

Not so fun than. I'm not a daytrader and don't intend to be but I've heard enough horror stories, after a while they aren't just stories. They are reality.

There are brokers, traders, investment funds, hedge funds, and everything in between that employ hardcore quantatative analysis and this graph and that candlestick and this voodo and that joojoo.

I am a fundamental investor and don't go to far into TA or QA methods.

[MrPrena]

Well said.

Fundamental is as important as Technical.
Technical just gives us basic "in" and "out" prices. It also uses volume Price change relative to change in time and volume.

I also would like to tell people in the forum that reading Fundamentals on yahoo finance key statistic for trailing 12mo, past quarter isn't going to help either. Someone has to re-plug the #'s in income statement and balance sheet based on what they have going on in the future revenue, gross, etc.

It gets much harder and less accurate for larger companies w/ over 10b market cap, but under 10b mkt cap, people are usually dead on calculating their next Quarter's EPS.

Originally Posted by Razzy

Day trading isn't a gateway to "easy money". There is no "easy" button and if there ever was, day trading would not be it.

It's easy to get caught up in your own hype when you make 2% a day or whatever for the first couple weeks. Than lose 3% a day the next 2 weeks.

Not so fun than. I'm not a daytrader and don't intend to be but I've heard enough horror stories, after a while they aren't just stories. They are reality.

There are brokers, traders, investment funds, hedge funds, and everything in between that employ hardcore quantatative analysis and this graph and that candlestick and this voodo and that joojoo.

I am a fundamental investor and don't go to far into TA or QA methods.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by N55

I did say at the end that you can lose big too...

When I day trade I only look for a $.10 to $.15 gain. I use a 3 Day RSI indicator, 6 day RSI Indicator and, a 14 day RSI indicator.

For example with $100k and a $20/share security (That is high volume and volatility) You need a stock that has 10¢ or more swings in under 10 minutes.

You buy 5000 shares of company xyz @ $20.00/share. Set a limit sell order for $20.10 and a stop loss at $19.80 (Varies case by case**) You wait seconds to minutes for it to gain $.10 ($20.10), you pocket the $500 gain (Minus commissions).

Rinse and repeat. Now you will lose a few times from your stop losses. I minimize this from using the 3 indicators.

Say you made 11 trades today, you were able to get the $.10 gain 8/11 times. That's +$4000, but you lost on 3/11 trades -$1500. You netted $2500 today. (Minus commissions of course, and assuming you were continuously able to purchase 5000 shares after the few losses (have extra money in the account but only trade with $100k))



Look at it how you want though. I do have days where I am in the hole for $2k within the first few trades, I get discouraged and call it a day early on those days and take a breather, because emotions can really screw you.

Just shut up. You are so full of shit. Anyone with any finance experience knows the crap you're throwing out is utter hypothetical garbage. You're the idiot that runs math on potential trades after the stock has moved and says, "Look how much you can make!"

Math and executing the trades BEFORE the stock moves are two different things. If you're legit, you should spend 100% of your time implementing your strategy and you'll be a multi billionaire in no time.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by Razzy

Day trading isn't a gateway to "easy money". There is no "easy" button and if there ever was, day trading would not be it.

It's easy to get caught up in your own hype when you make 2% a day or whatever for the first couple weeks. Than lose 3% a day the next 2 weeks.

Not so fun than. I'm not a daytrader and don't intend to be but I've heard enough horror stories, after a while they aren't just stories. They are reality.

There are brokers, traders, investment funds, hedge funds, and everything in between that employ hardcore quantatative analysis and this graph and that candlestick and this voodo and that joojoo.

I am a fundamental investor and don't go to far into TA or QA methods.

Well said. These guys making a little money in a bull market are soon to be humbled. Trades get a lot harder when you start putting up a couple hundred thousand dollars.

How's that day trade strategy working today for example? Ho-hum day, even up and boom, down in an instant. Trading isn't easy ever, but it's a hell of a lot easier when stocks drift up 75% of the time like they have in the last few years. Still, almost no one is making 2%/day and if they are, they sure as hell aren't doing it every single trading day. Fucking impossible.

[roastbeef]

so anyone know of areas that would be great for a rental property investment? i'm not opposed to buying anything out of california. our market out here is on a weird trend where inventory is down and prices are up...
i'm down for anywhere as long as it will make money each month after a 20% down loan. i can't swing an apartment complex or anything, i'm thinking a condo.

i would like to stay in the $150-175k range, but i'm not opposed to a slightly higher amount if the numbers work.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

so anyone know of areas that would be great for a rental property investment? i'm not opposed to buying anything out of california. our market out here is on a weird trend where inventory is down and prices are up...
i'm down for anywhere as long as it will make money each month after a 20% down loan. i can't swing an apartment complex or anything, i'm thinking a condo.

i would like to stay in the $150-175k range, but i'm not opposed to a slightly higher amount if the numbers work.

Maybe look for a fast growing cities/suburbs with low supply of housing/rental.
For an ex: Boulder is one of the city I know, but houses cost more than average cities located in OC.

[roastbeef]

someone (half seriously) told me detroit, but there is no way i'm going for that shit.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

someone (half seriously) told me detroit, but there is no way i'm going for that shit.

That's because the city was selling off lots from demolished abandoned crack houses for something like $100...., because nobody wanted the land in the middle of the most poverty stricken city in the United States. Grant it, there are a lot of people doing renos on the outskirts of the city, because they are trying to bring it back to life, and I've seen some people do well. The cute little blonde girl on DIY flips in Metro Detroit. There again, it's all about location, because most people moving near the city, don't want their kids going to the inner city schools. The singles moving to the city don't want to be by the crack houses, but still near the downtown nightlife that is starting to pick up.

It really can be hit or miss, but it's all about the demographics in that area. You need to familiarize yourself with the area before I would think about doing properties there. While they were half serious, you can get foreclosed homes on the CHEAP, and flip them for CHEAP, and turn them into nice rental property, so the opportunity is there, you just need to weigh the risk like anything else.

[Nkc]

Here's a good old fashioned business opportunity.

You buy some materials, produce something that the market wants, and sell it for more than it cost to produce it.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Here's a good old fashioned business opportunity.

You buy some materials, produce something that the market wants, and sell it for more than it cost to produce it.

You mean like real work? This is America, our desire is to avoid as much of that as possible, but still come out on top.

[roastbeef]

back to the basics, i like it.