[BMRSEB]

Originally Posted by five_timer

When did anyone say that?

It's my opinion that Vettel is as fast as Alonso; he was fast at BMW Sauber, he was fast at Torro Rosso, and he's been fast at Red Bull. I expect him to be fast at Ferrari. And it's also my opinion that the difference between ALO and RAI this season is greater than just setup. So while anything is possible, I'd say it's likely that Vettel (still in his prime) will be the faster of the two. Again, we'll see.

+1 Didn't Vettel get points for BMW in his first season before moving to TR and got their first win? The Vettel bashing getting old..

[Jenya B]

Mattiacci fired after 8 months only !!!

[Elsabor67]

Originally Posted by Jenya B

Mattiacci fired after 8 months only !!!

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!! That was fast!!!!!!

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ma...p-job/?v=2&s=1

[KingOfJericho]

So what I picked up from that article is that this new guy's only real experience with Ferrari is working for Philip Morris as "Vice President Consumer Channel Strategy and Event Marketing". I really don't understand these moves. It's actually pretty embarrassing for the Scuderia.

[thebishman]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

So what I picked up from that article is that this new guy's only real experience with Ferrari is working for Philip Morris as "Vice President Consumer Channel Strategy and Event Marketing". I really don't understand these moves. It's actually pretty embarrassing for the Scuderia.

I agree. Why wouldn't they choose a true car guy like Brawn to come in and straighten out what is obviously a huge mess? I guess the new boss can get them more sponsorship money, but I don't see how he's going to get them a Constructor's title anytime soon.
Bish

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by thebishman

I agree. Why wouldn't they choose a true car guy like Brawn to come in and straighten out what is obviously a huge mess? I guess the new boss can get them more sponsorship money, but I don't see how he's going to get them a Constructor's title anytime soon.
Bish

If a company with $3B in revenue is making moves for more sponsorship money, the sport is in more trouble than I thought.

[KlausPA]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

I hate McLaren decided not to tell until December. I guess McLaren is the only place left.

The only place left for Alonso??? We do not know what goes on behind closed doors but one think I can assure you... Alonso had many choices, even considered buying a team. What he has done with the POS Ferrari car this year is amazing.

Honda told McLaren "we are coming into the sport, you better get me the best driver out there" and McLaren delivered.

[KlausPA]

Originally Posted by thebishman

I agree. Why wouldn't they choose a true car guy like Brawn to come in and straighten out what is obviously a huge mess? I guess the new boss can get them more sponsorship money, but I don't see how he's going to get them a Constructor's title anytime soon.
Bish

Brawn wanted out of the sport, so was Newey... They don't agree with the way Bernie is managing F1.

Imagine a team with Newey as a designer, Brawn as a chief, Alonso and Bottas as drivers.

[KlausPA]

Originally Posted by Jenya B

Mattiacci fired after 8 months only !!!

Nothing makes me happier than this! Except Bernie selling his franchise to someone who loves the sport.

[TSM330i]

I'm not getting into the "Who's a better driver" because there are SO many variables from season to season and team to team.

I'm going to comment based on the OP topic:
I can totally see why Vettel wants to go to Ferrari. He's German and grew up watching Michael Schumacher building an empire of a team with them and winning so much. It makes sense from that standpoint.

Do I think it's a good idea? No. I think he would be better off with Red Bull. I believe they have less work to do than Ferrari. The Red Bull chassis is superior even to Mercedes (slower tracks have shown the Red Bulls to be quicker in certain sections of the track). The fact they're estimated to be down 75hp and still won races is huge. In a couple years when the engine development freeze is off and if Renault can make the necessary changes, I believe Red Bull will be back in front.

Ferrari has more to work on. Both engine and chassis. Is it impossible? No. Does Vettel have the know-how to develop the car? We'll see.

If Alonso goes to McLaren, will he help pay for the $100 million fine that he was a part of? I just can't see Ron Dennis getting over that too easily. Just my thoughts on that.

Should be interesting with the switches next year. Right now, it looks as though Merc will be the team to beat again. If Honda gets the engine right and can make the power, hopefully McLaren will be competitive. Don't forget, they already had the Merc powerplant.

[KingOfJericho]

Vettel already has four world titles with Red Bull. He's done as much as anyone could have asked for that team. What Ferrari offers that Red Bull can't is prestige. Even if they're not winning, you still drive for Ferrari - the most legendary team in the sport.

If you're going to go to a team, why not go to one that comes with a cult of fans? The perks are innumerous.

I always laugh when I see Infiniti commercials with Vettel driving a Q50. At Ferrari, that would be a La Ferrari or F12. Even if he never wins another race, he drives for Ferrari and that's what every driver wants, especially when they've already got four world titles in their back pocket.

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Vettel already has four world titles with Red Bull. He's done as much as anyone could have asked for that team. What Ferrari offers that Red Bull can't is prestige. Even if they're not winning, you still drive for Ferrari - the most legendary team in the sport.

If you're going to go to a team, why not go to one that comes with a cult of fans? The perks are innumerous.

I always laugh when I see Infiniti commercials with Vettel driving a Q50. At Ferrari, that would be a La Ferrari or F12. Even if he never wins another race, he drives for Ferrari and that's what every driver wants, especially when they've already got four world titles in their back pocket.

Well said. I agree 100%

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

I think he would be better off with Red Bull. I believe they have less work to do than Ferrari. The Red Bull chassis is superior even to Mercedes (slower tracks have shown the Red Bulls to be quicker in certain sections of the track). The fact they're estimated to be down 75hp and still won races is huge. In a couple years when the engine development freeze is off and if Renault can make the necessary changes, I believe Red Bull will be back in front.

Ferrari has more to work on. Both engine and chassis. Is it impossible? No. Does Vettel have the know-how to develop the car? We'll see.

Why do people always assume things remain static from year to year, when that's hardly ever the case? At various times, it seemed like Williams or McLaren or Ferrari or Renault or Brawn or Red Bull were unbeatable. When Hamilton went to Mercedes, he left a top-tier team for a midpacker, but look at the last 2 years.

The most obvious example is Ferrari with Schumacher. I also think that once a driver is on the downhill slide with a team that once acheived greatness, it's time to move on. I can't think of an example of a driver who stuck it out during a team's low point, after having been on top with that team.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by KlausPA

Honda told McLaren "we are coming into the sport, you better get me the best driver out there" and McLaren delivered.

Not quite....

Honda demanded either Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso, and all RD could deliver was the back stabbing little weasel that shafted him in 2007.....


I'd like to think that RD's reputation from the old days is such that he's hanging the slimey Spaniard out to dry as revenge for 2007, and with all other seats taken by the time of McLaren's driver announcement on 1 Dec, one of the two drivers won't be Alonso.
Sadly, given McL's current situation, I think it's RD that is being reamed by Honda in having to take back the slimey Spaniard.

Feel sorry for JB.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by five_timer

Why do people always assume things remain static from year to year, when that's hardly ever the case? At various times, it seemed like Williams or McLaren or Ferrari or Renault or Brawn or Red Bull were unbeatable. When Hamilton went to Mercedes, he left a top-tier team for a midpacker, but look at the last 2 years.

The most obvious example is Ferrari with Schumacher. I also think that once a driver is on the downhill slide with a team that once acheived greatness, it's time to move on. I can't think of an example of a driver who stuck it out during a team's low point, after having been on top with that team.

I was referring to the freeze on engine development for the next few years. I never said anything about being static from year-to-year.

Yes, I completely agree with you about drivers leaving once they take a down turn, but with Vettel, he had just won 4 championships in a row and had the first of a down year. Not sure he should have jumped ship so soon.

[thebishman]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

If a company with $3B in revenue is making moves for more sponsorship money, the sport is in more trouble than I thought.

My observation was facetious btw, but again Ferrari need a car guy to come in and clean house, not a money man. As you say, they have plenty, especially with the quite ridiculous agreement they have with Bernie that gives them mega millions without ever having to win a race.
Bish

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

I was referring to the freeze on engine development for the next few years. I never said anything about being static from year-to-year.

Yes, I completely agree with you about drivers leaving once they take a down turn, but with Vettel, he had just won 4 championships in a row and had the first of a down year. Not sure he should have jumped ship so soon.

Understood. I wonder if he had planned to jump ship before seeing how competitive Ricciardo would be, or after.

[KlausPA]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Not quite....

Honda demanded either Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso, and all RD could deliver was the back stabbing little weasel that shafted him in 2007.....

How do you figure Alonso is a back stabbing little weasel? Aren't you confusing him with Mike Coughlan?

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by KlausPA

How do you figure Alonso is a back stabbing little weasel? Aren't you confusing him with Mike Coughlan?

2007 Hungarian GP, Alonso delibrately blocks team mate Hamilton in the pit lane in final quali so Lewis couldn't set a final lap time, RD is seen throwing a hissy fit at Alonso's trainer and then the following day, Alonso threatened RD that he would sent email messages to the FIA that he had exchanged with Pedro de La Rosa and Coughlan.

[KlausPA]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

2007 Hungarian GP, Alonso delibrately blocks team mate Hamilton in the pit lane in final quali so Lewis couldn't set a final lap time, RD is seen throwing a hissy fit at Alonso's trainer and then the following day, Alonso threatened RD that he would sent email messages to the FIA that he had exchanged with Pedro de La Rosa and Coughlan.

Jaysus I remember that! Hamilton was given team orders and he didn't comply... I could agree that Alonso was childish and an asshole but not a back stabbing little weasel.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by KlausPA

I could agree that Alonso was childish and an asshole but not a back stabbing little weasel.

So, it was OK for him to 'blackmail' Ron then with the threat of sending emails to the FiA?

Alonso is a slimey shit IMHO, and from a few contacts I have that have been/are involved in the F1 over the years - it's not just my opinion either.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

If a company with $3B in revenue is making moves for more sponsorship money, the sport is in more trouble than I thought.

Of course they need sponsorship money. What's 3B when they spend 400+ million a season on the team.