[bmwperson]

Originally Posted by John_01

BMW cars have water pumps made completely of plastic and powered by electric motor. They will fail within 100,000km of use and leave the driver totally stranded.

If you ask me, the cars should all be recalled and fitted with better quality metal-bladed water pumps all-metal radiators as well.
There are probably other examples but that I think the water pump is the most shameful one because it is really fundamental to the cars reliability.

AFAIK the wp has a 60k miles service interval... and if by plastic you mean composite then yes, there is quite a few composites that are stronger then steel and introducing steel in an all aluminum cooling system will promote corrosion.

[Teutonic]

First, there is a saying: the grapes that can't be reached are always sour...
Secondly, if you maintain the vehicle properly, it will run properly.
Third, the very reliable ones are using older proven technology that was improved in time. The germans are throwing out new technology all the time, and many times this still needs tweeking.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by bmwperson

AFAIK the wp has a 60k miles service interval... and if by plastic you mean composite then yes, there is quite a few composites that are stronger then steel and introducing steel in an all aluminum cooling system will promote corrosion.

Yes.. it is called dissimilar metal corrosion. A problem that has to be taken very seriously in the manufacture of aircraft components.

[Dattebayo]

My experiences with BMW's is their engines will always be in running conditions but all the electronics will die before the engine. YMMV

[IEDEI]

ALL german cars cost more money to maintain and run; I just replaced my water pump and thermostat on my 1M at 63k miles even though it was working perfectly fine. WHY? Preventative maintenance. Do you think the average 335 buyer would actually replace a part that hasn't failed? The majority of the general public ONLY do oil changes and then complain when something actually breaks. People into their cars or into driving are the ones who do preventative repairs.

Thus, if you are going to buy a car and NOT do preventative maintenance like the majority of the general public; you are DEFINITELY better off going with a japanese car as they are less likely to fall apart without proper maintenance.

[bender rodriguez]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

ALL german cars cost more money to maintain and run; I just replaced my water pump and thermostat on my 1M at 63k miles even though it was working perfectly fine. WHY? Preventative maintenance. Do you think the average 335 buyer would actually replace a part that hasn't failed? The majority of the general public ONLY do oil changes and then complain when something actually breaks. People into their cars or into driving are the ones who do preventative repairs.

Thus, if you are going to buy a car and NOT do preventative maintenance like the majority of the general public; you are DEFINITELY better off going with a japanese car as they are less likely to fall apart without proper maintenance.

It has been explained over and over again by engineers that the water pump fails at random. Replacing it before it fails does nothing because it could fail 10 miles after you install. The chance of failure on a brand new pump is the same as one that has 80k miles on it.

Also, replacing a water pump is not preventive maintenance. You make it sound like it is like changing your oil. It is not and it is not acceptable they have such a high failure rate.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Cattivo

I've owned over 30 BMW's and out of those 30, 2 were pieces of shit, the rest have all been very reliable besides your normal wear and tear. I currently own 2- X5/M that have been trouble free and I drive ALL my cars like I stole them! As long as you don't follow BMW's silly maintenance schedule and do your own preventive maintenance such as changing your oil every 5k miles, your Bimmer will run for ever!

If you look at BMW reliability for the first owner, he will usually be satisfied since he has the warranty.

When you factor in BMW's past history of buying back cars that fail to be reliable during the first year, you end up with highly satisfied first owners.

Yet, the thing that repeatedly hurts BMW is the high standards BMW customers have. For example, BMW customers are likely to complain incessantly about a 20 db squeak where a Miata customer couldn't hear the squeak with the windows up, the radio off, and the engine idling while coasting down a bumpy hill at 80 mph.

Now, owning any BMW out of warranty can be astronomical. Plus, second hand BMW owners are equally likely to complain about a 20 db squeak. Moreover, second owners are likely to complain about aesthetic issues that develop---only to be frustrated by the fact that aesthetic issues aren't covered by CPO.

The bottom line, part for part, car for car, BMW's are indeed reliable as their non-lux competitors,

Now, to get there, we need to overlook the ethanol induced HPPF failures. Although, anyone severely affected by repeated HPPF failures may be too upset to reconsider the brand.

I am a loyal BMW customer. To my detriment, I never shop anything but BMW. But, BMW should learn quickly, however, my loyalty has limits and BMW better snap shit when I have a problem.

So far, BMW affirmatively responds to my inquiries and BMW has done backflips to keep me satisfied.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by bender rodriguez

It has been explained over and over again by engineers that the water pump fails at random. Replacing it before it fails does nothing because it could fail 10 miles after you install. The chance of failure on a brand new pump is the same as one that has 80k miles on it.

Also, replacing a water pump is not preventive maintenance. You make it sound like it is like changing your oil. It is not and it is not acceptable they have such a high failure rate.

interesting how there are lots of N54 owners whose water pumps have failed between 60k and 80k miles specifically.....very common failure in N54 engines. It may be electrical but it can still have a certain lifespan.

I'm not disagreeing with you about it failing at any time but it is super common to have them fail at 60-80k miles....

[elerner61]

Let's put it this way, the Mean Time Between Failure for many components on European cars is on average considerably lower than for those in Japanese cars and leave it at that.

You can call it maintenance if you want to, but the fact is long term ownership of a European car will cost you more money.

That said, I do believe that European cars have qualities that make them more attractive to keep on the road longer than Japanese cars. Their body and paintwork are much higher quality and when suspension is refreshed, the drive experience is very much retained. Beyond 150,000 miles Japanese cars tend to just be destined for the scrapyard.

To this last point I just did a Cargurus.com search to compare Honda Accords with over 150.000 miles for sale against BMW 3 Series. 118 vs. 739. And based upon how many more Accords are sold that's pretty impressive.

[Killramos]

I think its funny how people say Japanese cars last so long. I don't think that's even marginally true these days. Maybe the things will start, and move. But they sure as hell don't do it very well past 100k.

That's like saying "this food doesn't expire for 10 years" but stored any longer it tastes like crap. it wont technically kill you therefore it hasn't expired.

[Chasex]

I'll believe it when I see it myself. I've owned two out of warranty BMW's and put about 25k miles on each of them, and I've had exactly one issue - a single coil on my 328i.

My 2009 335i runs like a dream with 50k miles on it. From what I can tell, most of the reliability grumblings on the 335i come from the HPFP, wastegate, and water pump, but 2/3 of those are warrantied by BMW.

HPFP - 10 year 120k warranty. Newest version of the part seems to be reliable.
Wastegates - 8 year 82k warranty
Water Pump - This is the only one that really ticks me off.

The rest of the reliability issues seem to come from people with heavily modified or poorly maintained or beat up cars. Not that bad if you ask me.

[rantarM3]

All of the BMW's I've owed have had issues that one would think should not occur at the given mileage. Some issues are common while others fairly unusual and random. I'll note that I take very good care of my cars and perform maintenance above and beyond what BMW outlines. So maintenance is expensive and repairs even more so. Next car most likely will not be a BMW because I need a break from visiting the shop. But I'll keep my current one running for a while despite the cost because I just like the car so much.

[RedlinePSI]

Originally Posted by Petros

No smoke without fire. Yes, BMW does have a legitimate reputation for unreliability. obviously it depends on the driver, and some models are more reliable than other. But on average a BMW will have more issues than a Toyota or honda. But it's not just that. Failures are also more expensive on a premium german brand. Labor costs more. And parts are insanely overpriced as well. YOu would expect to pay much more for a spare part on a BMW than a Nissan or Chevy, just because of the brand name.

Fixed this for you.

No smoke without fire. Yes, BMW does have a legitimate reputation for unreliability. obviously it depends on the sex, and some models are more reliable than other. But on average a BMW will have more issues than a Toyota or honda. But it's not just that. Failures are also more expensive on a premium german brand. Labor costs more. And parts are insanely overpriced as well. YOu would expect to pay much more for a spare part on a BMW than a Nissan or Chevy, just because of the brand name.

Fixed this for you.

Fixed this for me.

[David70]

If your main goal is long term reliability and low maintenance and repair costs I would recommend another brand. You have to want to own a BMW bad enough for other reasons and deal with the negatives.

I don't doubt that from the original post, the woman that went from the Z3 to the Miata found that the Miata was more reliable and cheaper to maintain/repair.

[John_01]

Originally Posted by bmwperson

AFAIK the wp has a 60k miles service interval... and if by plastic you mean composite then yes, there is quite a few composites that are stronger then steel and introducing steel in an all aluminum cooling system will promote corrosion.

I'm curious, where does it say to replace your water pump at 60,000 intervals? AFAIK, the water pump is not part of condition based service intervals. There is not even a specified interval for flushing the coolant.
Basically you just keep driving until it stops, and then you need a tow truck.

[CookMaster]

I think the original premise of the op was having a maintenance free car, regardless of its origin. I think the op concerns were not knowledgeable or helpful to our forum. I would suggest terminating this thread.

[Sterling Roadster]

The key to BMW's being reliable is the driver. Fact is most North Americans want to buy a car and do the absolute minimun to keep it running. If their indy mechanic reccomends a cooling system overhaul after 65,000 miles. A lot of people will say or feel they are being sold something they don't need because they know nothing about the car. And then when there is any issue after years of neglect suddenly the car has poor reliability. BMWs are built to a higher standard than 'appliance' cars, and their maintenance requires a higher level of attention. Not that their is anything wrong with appliance cars. Bottom line this is good for enthusiasts who know this. Yay for an ignorant market causing depriciation, for me to enjoy!

[New2Roundel]

I think the concept of reliability to some extent is based on expectations. Obviously a car that is in the shop once a month is unreliable regardless of how you spin it. But I think a lot of regular folks buy regular BMWs expecting them age in exactly the same manner as the CamCord they just traded in. They pay more to get a better driving experience and at least the same level of reliability. And that same level of reliability is expected when owners loosely follow only the oil change recommendations.

In an ideal world buying a more expensive car buys you car with CamCord reliability but that drives a whole lot better, with higher quality materials. But that doesn't seem to be the case. At least on the internet, the reputation of the initial I6 turbo engines was quite suspect. I don't think I'd buy a turbo BMW, with the only possible exception being an M car. The other issue is that because servicing these cars is so much (compared to a CamCord), people have a pretty long memory with repairs.

I can sort of see their point to some degree. I'm not sure I'd put up with frequent repairs/maintenance on a regular BMW, but at the same time, I think there is a certain additional and personal value to M branded cars where I am ok spending more keeping the car in good shape for the driving experience. Then again, I would have no problem rolling the dice on a 128 or E9x 328, as I feel that it's a pretty bulletproof drivetrain.

[csu87]

Boom! Above average.

[Mbbrewer]

My f10 550 has been in the shop 44 days while they pulled the engine to walnut blast the carbon buildup on the valves which was the cause of misfires. Oh yea it was also in the shop for 42 days while they replaced a smorgasbord of parts known as the customer care package.

Reliable? Hardly.

[Pig Farmer]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

My f10 550 has been in the shop 44 days while they pulled the engine to walnut blast the carbon buildup on the valves which was the cause of misfires. Oh yea it was also in the shop for 42 days while they replaced a smorgasbord of parts known as the customer care package.

Reliable? Hardly.

Same shop?

[islandbimmer]

I see more broken down late model BMW's than any other brand on the side of the road or on a flat bed heading to the dealer. No other brand comes close. Part of the problem is the electronic water pump, leaves the driver stranded, happened to my wife. Her car 07 335 has been in the shop more than on the road this year oil leaks everywhere. First the OFHG
was leaking, had walnut blasting done at the same time . two weeks later the VCG leak, and new plugs , one month later oil pan gasket, two weeks later both turbos and I'm sure next week the main rear seal will leak. And she says it is still using oil Oh and the check engine light shows up and they don't know why. Her next car will be a Tesla no more combustion engine problems.