[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

EV still account for less than 1% of car sales nationally. Fast growing going from 0.4% to 0.8% is a double. Still insignificant. I picture the majority of tesla sales as the same people who want the latest iphone, etc. They rush out when the new model comes then sales plummet till the next new shiny object catches their attention. Going to be decades before EV sales start gathering meani market share and mass market acceptance.

Taking a look at a large portion of BMW's market, the U.S., things don't seem to be going well. As it stands now, Tesla is beating BMW, Mercedes, Audi in high-end luxury car sales, and are now #1. Now Tesla has nearly 400K order reservations for a car specifically designed to beat the 3-series. Beware of shiny objects.

[Fundguy1]

Those orders haven't been filled. I doubt it hits 200k cars. And I doubt the next year hits 50k.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Those orders haven't been filled. I doubt it hits 200k cars. And I doubt the next year hits 50k.

Your doubts aren't going to affect the outcome which will be millions in lost sales due to incredibly poor judgement.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Haha, not even going to try to compete huh? BMW just officially gave up.

Wait, more will be revealed.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Your doubts aren't going to affect the outcome which will be millions in lost sales due to incredibly poor judgement.

By tesla? Exactly. Glad bmw stopped the madness. Now maybe they can use their research money to make the next generation 3 series another ground breaking car instead od middle of the pack like this one.

[F22_Raptor]

Maybe if the i3 wasnt the ugliest car on the road it would sell better?

[yousefnjr]

LOL

Been debating picking up an i3 lease on the cheap for a while now, but I'd have to have a plate frame that read "I know it's ugly but the deal was good" or something to that effect

My wife knows the i3 as "the pig"

[SCOTT26]

The problem is that many see this opportunity to use it as BMW are doing nothing when it could not be further from the truth. BMWi is an intensive investment that covers multiple areas as well as cars so in order to introduce and develop this brand we need to establish it.
BMWi is currently in its infancy. The first full products arrived on schedule and were all new from the ground up and for that the brand, the philosophy has to have an establishing period. Which is why we move to Phase 2 with the revised i3 and i8 updates and expansion.
The BMW i3 and i8 use outsourced batteries from Samsung judged to be the most state of the art battery in the industry.
BMW have a long co-operation with Samsung and further endeavours will be expected and announced at the right time.

But over this BMW have achieved great momentum during the establishment period. It has brought cost effective Carbon fibre placement in the heaviest points of a vehicle structure to the core brand.
They have developed PHEV drivetrains for the core model line. A new partnership with Toyota helped conceive Hydrogen Fuel Cells and they have brought high performance with the less is more philosophy demonstrated with the i8 with the development of Power eDrive which combined with Electric motor , a six or four cylinder can deliver supreme performance with excellent sustainability.

The i3 and i8 needed time to mature, rushing in with additional vehicles was never part of the strategy.
BMWi should remain unique and separate from electrification of a core platform which our competitors were focused on.

The iNext is to be a flagship for BMWi so it will be a futuristic Sedan for Four. Its an important vehicle because it will be introduced in time for achieving emissions targets for the whole group. It will be introduced in purely conceptual form like the i3 and i8 at Frankfurt 2017. So it begins the journey to a prestigious sustainable flagship model.

In the meantime there is the successful introduction and rapid expansion of the X5e and 330e now under iPerformance branding especially the X5 accounting for 10% of global sales. The all new BMW 5er will offer PHEV as will the new X3 bring total BMW vehicles to 7 models but they will develop with different ranges of power therefore offering customers options. And more will be on the way.
Power eDrive models will introduce PHEV High Performance to take advantage of markets that penalise performance cars something BMWs M550d models have already achieved. Power eDrive models will also be implemented in the GKL Segment for BMW in larger concepts such as the 7er,9er and X5 and X7.

The 6er is a descendent of the CS/CSi/CSL series which is a four seat Gran Tourer in the classical sense. Even the E24 continued this philosophy as did the E63 and F12. With the latest 6er answering market trends for a more practical Coupe with the Gran Coupe which to all intents and purposes outsells the Coupe and Cabrio by a huge margin. I do not foresee this market change.

The new Z5 is the first of models co-developed and pooled resources vehicle with Toyota. It will be a Roadster first followed later by a Coupe which will mirror how BMW place their X models. With the standard core SAV and sportier SAC models.
With the Roadster being Z5 and coupe being Z6.

[3GFX]

There biggest mistake was making the i3 something unique.

In the end, all buyers want is a simple car that looks good and functions like a petrol car that is electric. Tesla did that, BMW didn't. They should have just brought out an electric 3 series.

But already....Tesla's brand is better.

[FType22]

maybe they should be looking at the competition. Make an e-3 series instead of an e-fuckinguglyassPOS. the e-golf looks better than the i3, along with most of the tesla models , and the nissan leaf is only popular because its cheap. Miss all 3 segments (looks/affordability/early entry) and you'll end up with shit sales.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The problem is that many see this opportunity to use it as BMW are doing nothing when it could not be further from the truth. BMWi is an intensive investment that covers multiple areas as well as cars so in order to introduce and develop this brand we need to establish it.
BMWi is currently in its infancy. The first full products arrived on schedule and were all new from the ground up and for that the brand, the philosophy has to have an establishing period. Which is why we move to Phase 2 with the revised i3 and i8 updates and expansion.
The BMW i3 and i8 use outsourced batteries from Samsung judged to be the most state of the art battery in the industry.
BMW have a long co-operation with Samsung and further endeavours will be expected and announced at the right time.

But over this BMW have achieved great momentum during the establishment period. It has brought cost effective Carbon fibre placement in the heaviest points of a vehicle structure to the core brand.
They have developed PHEV drivetrains for the core model line. A new partnership with Toyota helped conceive Hydrogen Fuel Cells and they have brought high performance with the less is more philosophy demonstrated with the i8 with the development of Power eDrive which combined with Electric motor , a six or four cylinder can deliver supreme performance with excellent sustainability.

The i3 and i8 needed time to mature, rushing in with additional vehicles was never part of the strategy.
BMWi should remain unique and separate from electrification of a core platform which our competitors were focused on.

The iNext is to be a flagship for BMWi so it will be a futuristic Sedan for Four. Its an important vehicle because it will be introduced in time for achieving emissions targets for the whole group. It will be introduced in purely conceptual form like the i3 and i8 at Frankfurt 2017. So it begins the journey to a prestigious sustainable flagship model.

In the meantime there is the successful introduction and rapid expansion of the X5e and 330e now under iPerformance branding especially the X5 accounting for 10% of global sales. The all new BMW 5er will offer PHEV as will the new X3 bring total BMW vehicles to 7 models but they will develop with different ranges of power therefore offering customers options. And more will be on the way.
Power eDrive models will introduce PHEV High Performance to take advantage of markets that penalise performance cars something BMWs M550d models have already achieved. Power eDrive models will also be implemented in the GKL Segment for BMW in larger concepts such as the 7er,9er and X5 and X7.

The 6er is a descendent of the CS/CSi/CSL series which is a four seat Gran Tourer in the classical sense. Even the E24 continued this philosophy as did the E63 and F12. With the latest 6er answering market trends for a more practical Coupe with the Gran Coupe which to all intents and purposes outsells the Coupe and Cabrio by a huge margin. I do not foresee this market change.

The new Z5 is the first of models co-developed and pooled resources vehicle with Toyota. It will be a Roadster first followed later by a Coupe which will mirror how BMW place their X models. With the standard core SAV and sportier SAC models.
With the Roadster being Z5 and coupe being Z6.

This is all lofty foo foo. Reality is what is BMW? It is the 3 series sedan. That's the core. Why has the 3 series been so successful for them? Because it dominated the class in handling, power, and braking all balaced, with high quality thrown in. Till the current generation, it was the class leader. Now, all of a sudden, it isn't. Steering numbness, lack of superiority vs competition in performance, etc. I attribute this to a lack of research money invested in their core. More invested in the fringe. Icars being the biggest drain per return on research they've ever done. If they want Icars to be successful, make a 3 Icar. Why make an ugly pos I3. Improve the 3 series 2 generations as this one was a sideways move at best, and offer an optional electric or hybrid version. Bmw is being penny smart and dollar dumb with this whole Icar concept.

[3GFX]

Originally Posted by DJP86

maybe they should be looking at the competition. Make an e-3 series instead of an e-fuckinguglyassPOS. the e-golf looks better than the i3, along with most of the tesla models , and the nissan leaf is only popular because its cheap. Miss all 3 segments (looks/affordability/early entry) and you'll end up with shit sales.

The A3 e-Tron is exactly that, but is also isn't flying off shelves.

Tesla has established itself as a brand leader.

[FType22]

Originally Posted by 3GFX

The A3 e-Tron is exactly that, but is also isn't flying off shelves.

Tesla has established itself as a brand leader.

how long has it been in the market? I also noticed Tesla seems to have better range than almost every other e model out there. I forgot about that e-A3, I actually liked it. I wish they would take a model that wasn't a hatchback and made it electric (in reference to A3 and Golf).

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Industry periodical Automotive News points to talent moving elsewhere as the catalyst here. I guess when your electric drivetrain designer genius leaves you have to come up with plan B. :

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by 3GFX

The A3 e-Tron is exactly that, but is also isn't flying off shelves.

Tesla has established itself as a brand leader.

A3 e-tron is a hybrid, with around 30 miles of all electric range before the ICE takes over.

Agree, Tesla is the benchmark.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

This is all lofty foo foo. Reality is what is BMW? It is the 3 series sedan. That's the core. Why has the 3 series been so successful for them? Because it dominated the class in handling, power, and braking all balaced, with high quality thrown in. Till the current generation, it was the class leader. Now, all of a sudden, it isn't. Steering numbness, lack of superiority vs competition in performance, etc. I attribute this to a lack of research money invested in their core. More invested in the fringe. Icars being the biggest drain per return on research they've ever done. If they want Icars to be successful, make a 3 Icar. Why make an ugly pos I3. Improve the 3 series 2 generations as this one was a sideways move at best, and offer an optional electric or hybrid version. Bmw is being penny smart and dollar dumb with this whole Icar concept.

I quite like the F30. The V36 G35 usually beat out the E90 335i in comparison tests (it was a damn good car to toss around), but both the E90 and F30 are both really good cars.

The 3 Series is still a wildly popular car. Besides, your idea is, honestly, shortsighted. You can't just spend some massive large sum of money on R&D on a specific line of vehicles without having to really up the selling price. Then people would bitch about how much more the 3 Series is compared to a C Class.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I quite like the F30. The V36 G35 usually beat out the E90 335i in comparison tests (it was a damn good car to toss around), but both the E90 and F30 are both really good cars.

The 3 Series is still a wildly popular car. Besides, your idea is, honestly, shortsighted. You can't just spend some massive large sum of money on R&D on a specific line of vehicles without having to really up the selling price. Then people would bitch about how much more the 3 Series is compared to a C Class.

I didn't say spend more money on r&d. I said shift the money from the Icar r&d. If you had THE killer sport sedan again, sales would jump, more orders for the 3 series, less for the other guys. They new gobs of money on the Icars and got really nothing in return. An ugly failed i3 and a limitedlimited run i8. TheY could have not sold the I cars and sold way more 3 series for the same r&d budget. Then if they wanted an electric, make an electric 3 serise modifying the existing superior platform. Save money and more sales. WhY start from scratch, try to create a whole new brand, design ugly cars, and then watch it evaporate?

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I didn't say spend more money on r&d. I said shift the money from the Icar r&d. If you had THE killer sport sedan again, sales would jump, more orders for the 3 series, less for the other guys. They new gobs of money on the Icars and got really nothing in return. An ugly failed i3 and a limitedlimited run i8. TheY could have not sold the I cars and sold way more 3 series for the same r&d budget. Then if they wanted an electric, make an electric 3 serise modifying the existing superior platform. Save money and more sales. WhY start from scratch, try to create a whole new brand, design ugly cars, and then watch it evaporate?

I agree with your post. But hybrids/EVs only sell well when they are easily identifiable. A hybrid/EV version of a 3 Series wouldn't be recognizable enough for the vast majority of EV shoppers. Apparently these shoppers value the 'look how green I am' aspect of these cars too much for just a trunk badge to win them over.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I agree with your post. But hybrids/EVs only sell well when they are easily identifiable. A hybrid/EV version of a 3 Series wouldn't be recognizable enough for the vast majority of EV shoppers. Apparently these shoppers value the 'look how green I am' aspect of these cars too much for just a trunk badge to win them over.

Hence the, um, 'unique' look of the i3.

Look at the big picture, folks -- i.e., the global picture. The reason most e-cars are hatchbacks is because the U.S. is not the primary market for them; it's Europe and Asia, where hatchbacks are far more popular and make sense from multiple other standpoints, from population density and cost of ownership to use-ability/utility and taxation/insurance.

The reason Teslas aren't hatchbacks (save the Model X, which has a hatch but is a crossover) is partially the inverse: it's been aimed primarily at the U.S. market. The other part is that Tesla worked form the top down -- make an expensive, luxurious, high-performance e-car, then work downward to the masses -- as opposed to the other way around, which is how most other e-cars and unique hybrids (i.e., the Prius) were developed. Two different business models, two different pending and potential results, both short-term and long-term.

Save for the Tesla, no e-car on the planet was developed mainly for the North American market. So throw "American" design and platform tastes out the window. The i3 may look like arse to many of us, but it won design awards in markets where it actually matters.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I agree with your post. But hybrids/EVs only sell well when they are easily identifiable. A hybrid/EV version of a 3 Series wouldn't be recognizable enough for the vast majority of EV shoppers. Apparently these shoppers value the 'look how green I am' aspect of these cars too much for just a trunk badge to win them over.

Sad. I avoid them so it makes it easy for me to pass on them. I'd think an EV with top of class handling would be of value. The tesla can't handle better than an electric wheelchair.

[Kiwi]

BMW's i3 is designed to be a shopping cart for those who have the coin. It doesn't drive all that well and has uncomfortable seats.

The only sensible ev is plugin with a petrol engine up front like the 330e, X5e, 225xe.

Who wants to stand around and wait to charge these batteries and what if the power goes down and people are stuck because they have flat batteries.

My prediction is the i3 & i8 are dead in the water and will be replaced with BMW's ever growing sales of their new 2, 3, X5, 7 series ev's

BMW's 330e 0-60 is 5.9s plus I can drive the 330 in bus only lanes and carpool lanes so who wouldn't like a quicker drive to work.

[zenmaster]

BMW needs to leverage their carbon fiber tech and produce a better looking, purpose built, competitive EV platform before 2021. In 5 years time Tesla would have a 2nd gen Model 3 and maybe a 2-series competitor. And there will probably others taking sales away.