[xQx]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

Reminds me of an S2000 CR....

Rather have an S2000 CR

I'd rather have an S2000. It was an awesome car. Still, 17 years later it's an awesome car.

If they still made them today, I'd probably be driving a S2000, no a 135i. I don't know what it's like in the states, but they're selling now with 100,000 mi on the clock for about the same as what they cost new: Carsales Australia S2000 search

Actually, truth be told, I'd probably still be driving a 135i. The S2000 is very similar to a Porsche boxter or a lotus elise - amazing fun to drive, handles like a go-cart, but 2 seats and unless you're going to supercharge, almost no room for aftermarket improvement.

Anyway, it's unfair to the S2000 to draw a comparison to a Subaru branded Toyota 86.

[3rdcoast228i]

Originally Posted by kprocivic

Lol please refrain from posting about things you obviously have no clue about.

Triggered?

I realize that 2016 was the last year for the Hyundai but still the point remains.


I said price range and you blatantly edited my post to change the entire wording of my statement.

People do cross shop cars... I was looking at camaros, challengers, and even used corvettes when I bought my 2 series. The one thing they all have in common is they are RWD, including the BRZ/86. So in a way they are in the same segment...

[3rdcoast228i]

Base MSRPs

Toyota 86 $26,255
BRZ $25,495
Camaro $25,905 275 hp
Mustang $25,185 300 hp
Challenger $26,995 305 hp

[c1pher]

I know it would cost a little more but out of that bunch, I'd spring for the camaro with v6 and 1LE track package. Would probably be around $32k.

But when you get into that price range, you have way more new and used options for cars that could be used on the track. For example you could get a low mileage 2013 135i for less than $32k, or get into a C6 Corvette. There are a lot of options at $30k. You can even find earlier Lotus Elise. Since the FRS/BRZ is more of a track handling car, or what it is sold as....the other cars would also be what I'd be considering first.

[3rdcoast228i]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

I know it would cost a little more but out of that bunch, I'd spring for the camaro with v6 and 1LE track package. Would probably be around $32k.

But when you get into that price range, you have way more new and used options for cars that could be used on the track. For example you could get a low mileage 2013 135i for less than $32k, or get into a C6 Corvette. There are a lot of options at $30k. You can even find earlier Lotus Elise. Since the FRS/BRZ is more of a track handling car, or what it is sold as....the other cars would also be what I'd be considering first.

I was trying to keep it simple but yes you have a lot of options.

Even an 335hp v6 camaro with RS package can be had for 25k after rebates/discounts. You have to wait until the rebates pop up but it can be done. I was seriously looking at them when I bought my 2 series.

[damnitBobby]

86 owner here

The car is great fun and more practical than a miata, but if I told you I was completely satisfied with the engine/power I'd be telling a lie. I think Subaru isn't giving it the turbo motor because maybe it will take sales away from the WRX? I don't really know. Maybe they just want to stick to the philosophy they had from the beginning; lightweight, RWD, all motor, 6MT sports cars.

Having said that, you'll never catch me in a v6 camaro/mustang/challenger. Everybody and their sister can keep those.

[c1pher]

Understand. Sometimes muscle cars can't overcome the redneck stigma. I rode in a very nicely modded v6 Mustang with gt500 exterior trim bits like diffuser etc, it had been tuned but still NA. They had replaced the gears and that things was probably as fast as a 5.0 if not a little faster.

[NickyC]

I don't see a redneck stigma attached to those cars, as much as I just don't see an individuality to them. We're all different, but I've always gone out of my way to buy a car that you don't see at every stop light, street corner, gas station, etc. The Mustang/Camaro/Challenger trio is just so played out. Yes they are nice cars if you go for the higher option ones, but let's face it, your average Joe won't see any difference between a 25k ecoboost Mustang and a GT500 for 100k. They damn near all the look the same, and you give up on individuality buying these cars.

Obviously not a concern for most, but this factor alone has always kept me from buying one.

[3rdcoast228i]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Having said that, you'll never catch me in a v6 camaro/mustang/challenger. Everybody and their sister can keep those.

I totally agree with you.

I still think the 86/BRZ is a great little car though. I guess I'm just upset knowing it could be more. And it could find appeal to a bigger market if they would up the power.

[R N M]

As an owner of a BRZ, i can tell u the driving experience that the 86/BRZ provides is completely different than what you get in a Mustang/Camaro.

If you are driving at or under 80mph, its fast enough. If most of your fun takes place at 80mph+ then this car is not for you.

This is a momentum car period. But there a million options in aftermarket to make it a rocket, just put in a LS1 in it and call it a day.

[saeyedoc]

cool car, but I won't buy a car that can't accelerate from 50-70 adequately, not safe.

[MightyMouseTech]

Simple fix.

[Questofthetune]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Simple fix.

Jeez how much was that

[AtlasM]

I know it's tempting to think about Subaru slapping one of their existing turbo motors in the BRZ but the engine bay of the BRZ is packaged differently from the Impreza and Legacy platforms. It has a lower-profile intake manifold, the throttle is on the front instead of the back, and accessories are mounted differently.

BRZ:



Impreza:



Subaru uses top-mount intercoolers above the boxer engine. In the current-gen WRX you can't see much of what's going on because of the plastic cover:



But the WRX STI uses the older-style 2.5 liter motor and no cover:



The throttle is still on the back of the manifold like all the other Subaru motors and unlike the BRZ.

The BRZ motor is most closely related to the 2.0 NA motor in the base Impreza and the 2.0 turbo in the non-STI WRX. But to get the base WRX motor in there, everything on the base WRX motor is in the wrong spot in relation to the BRZ motor.

That's not to say it couldn't be done, but it would require Subaru to spend the money to properly engineer the turbo motor into the BRZ.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Questofthetune

Jeez how much was that

Not me, so no idea. But this is a REALLY common swap apparently.

[xQx]

Originally Posted by Questofthetune

Jeez how much was that

Looks like about $18k plus labour.

[Alfisti]

Apparently for $12k or so it's all done.

The motor adds all of 25KG to the weight. Fuck all.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Apparently for $12k or so it's all done.

The motor adds all of 25KG to the weight. Fuck all.

They have a conversion for the FD Miata that also barely adds weight too. Certainly makes for an interesting, light car.

[xQx]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Apparently for $12k or so it's all done.

The motor adds all of 25KG to the weight. Fuck all.

Kinda. $7,500 for the "complete" swap kit: https://shop.weaponsgradeperformance...rz-ls-swap-kit

Plus the cost of the LS1 (apparently about $6k), plus labour (WGP will do it for $5k).

[Alfisti]

So near 20K.

That's too high, just turbocharge the thing, no way it costs 20K.

[rainfall]

I think having a factory turbo would require some extra components to make sure the car has enough stopping/handling power. Maybe that wouldn't make the car much heavier, either

Food for thought: 2 similar cars are the 228i (~1478kg ) and the M235i (~1590kg). They add 1 more liter in the engine, better brakes, etc for only ~110kg with the upside of having a lot more power and torque (I believe 228i has 240hp and the M235i has 320hp, right?).

[AtlasM]

Originally Posted by rainfall

I think having a factory turbo would require some extra components to make sure the car has enough stopping/handling power. Maybe that wouldn't make the car much heavier, either

Food for thought: 2 similar cars are the 228i (~1478kg ) and the M235i (~1590kg). They add 1 more liter in the engine, better brakes, etc for only ~110kg with the upside of having a lot more power and torque (I believe 228i has 240hp and the M235i has 320hp, right?).

Listed curb weights on manufacturer USA websites, with manual transmission:

Subaru BRZ - 2785 lbs (1266 kg)
BMW 230i - 3342 lbs (1519 kg)
BMW M240i - 3499 lbs (1590 kg)

Sure both 2 series models are more powerful and probably quicker but that's a pretty big weight difference. Different type of car.

I still would prefer a turbo motor in the BRZ though.