[Tacoma]

I disagree with the paying more for manual option.

I didn't get the survey (maybe US only?) but if the so called "Board of Drivers" are actually in favor of keeping the manual, then charging more for it will actually do the opposite and drive people away thus diluting the competitive advantage by offering it in the first place.

The end result would be even less people would order the manual and another nail in the coffin. Thus if the Board is in favor of keeping the manual, it should not support charging more for it.

[SanchoDivine]

I enjoy the fact that I save a few thousand to get an MT which is my preference. I have driven the DCTs and while there are some things to like about it, there are couple things that I absolutely hate about it. It doesn't feel like driving and the paddles are equivalent to the old sportshift automatics with the difference being on the steering wheel instead of the shifter. What's the deal with it automatically putting the car in park if you open the door so that you can see how far your rear wheel is to the curb? Sure there are performance gains from the autos/DCTs and they are preferred for warranty reasons but IMO manuals are becoming a thing of the past because it's a dying skill that a lot of people just don't have. Companies won't invest in adding additional gears or making manuals higher performing because a majority of the population aren't able to use manuals.

[///M-er-gized]

People that prefer manual transmissions are much more passionate and vocal about it. People that prefer the DCT are in the majority, are less passionate about it, and less likely to voice their preference for it on Internet forums.

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by ///M-er-gized

People that prefer the DCT are in the majority

99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals or in most cases have never driven anything but automatics.

[iamwingman]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals or in most cases have never driven anything but automatics.

Uh huh. Little secret, it ain't that difficult to drive a stick.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by iamwingman

Uh huh. Little secret, it ain't that difficult to drive a stick.

Nobody said it's hard. He said they don't know how to.

[iamwingman]

He mentioned proficiency. Inidicating a level of difficulty involved. And if you manual or bust guys want to feel connected to your cars, why not try driving an un-synchronized manual.?But, as I said, driving a stick is not hard to do. The stick only people act as if it is some accomplishment to drive one.

[Projectile]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

I'm on my second M4. First on a MT, this one DCT. I'd 100% go back to a MT if I could.

No doubt.

Well, I missed MT after an e92 with DCT (my first non MT after 20 yrs) so I got an e92 6MT, then got an F82 6MT, and now I'm finally ready to give up the MT and very pleased with DCT. It's a great blend of both worlds with better performance. The question comes down to fun, and for me, after nearly 30years with MT, it just wasn't that fun anymore ...

Who knows? Ma be I'll get bored and want a MT next time, but I doubt it.

[FC]

Originally Posted by iamwingman

He mentioned proficiency. Inidicating a level of difficulty involved. And if you manual or bust guys want to feel connected to your cars, why not try driving an un-synchronized manual.?But, as I said, driving a stick is not hard to do. The stick only people act as if it is some accomplishment to drive one.

My experience is that aside from "car people," the majority of people who can drive stick (which in the US is an extreme minority) doesn't do so well.

I've spent time in other countries where people typically get manual cars because they are cheaper (especially years ago) and most drivers managed to drive stick adequately at best. Usually the timing of shifts was awful, a ton of clutch slipping, some jerkiness, etc.

Most of these people would much rather drive an automatic, and in large part was because they could not drive stick well.

And to suggest driving a stick is no more difficult than an automatic is absurd, never mind doing so well.

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by iamwingman

Uh huh. Little secret, it ain't that difficult to drive a stick.

What I meant was some people know how to make a manual transmission car move, but they don't really have enough experience to know how to row between gears smoothly or deal with a lot of the other scenarios like traffic on hills, etc. It's not hard to make a car with a manual transmission move, but it takes more than driving a manual for the first time to do it well. The rev matching feature and other assist make it easier but it still wont help you know which is the best gear to switch to at a given speed.

Automatic transmissions will eventually make manual and pseudo manual (DCTs) cars disappear and not too much longer the self-driving cars will take over so the debate on transmissions is a short lived one.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by iamwingman

He mentioned proficiency. Inidicating a level of difficulty involved. And if you manual or bust guys want to feel connected to your cars, why not try driving an un-synchronized manual.?But, as I said, driving a stick is not hard to do. The stick only people act as if it is some accomplishment to drive one.

Geeze defensive much?

[E92 M Sport]

Did my part and took the survey. Plus MT is a great anti theft feature!

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals or in most cases have never driven anything but automatics.

Most of the people that I know that prefer DCT are very proficient at driving manuals. Many of them are professional race drivers and several of them hold track records and have won national championships. Most of the others drove MTs for many years and many still own cars with manual transmissions.

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Most of the people that I know that prefer DCT are very proficient at driving manuals. Many of them are professional race drivers and several of them hold track records and have won national championships. Most of the others drove MTs for many years and many still own cars with manual transmissions.

I don't really know what to say here. All I can decipher is that you don't know many people and that a number of them will have a manual car.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by trey100

Wow that's telling. I have a manual but was thinking of trying a DCT next time around. I enjoy the manual very much though but was curious if the DCT would amp up the performance another notch.

Depends on what you bought the car for:

* If you're daily driving it and don't do much track/canyon work then I'd definitely stay 6MT - just way more fun

* If your core reason is you're trying to hit that time or keep up with that one dude, then definitely get the DCT

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals

0.5% of the time, hyperbole works every time.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

and i thought this thread wasn't going to become a dct vs. manual thread. what the fuck was i thinking

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

and i thought this thread wasn't going to become a dct vs. manual thread. what the fuck was i thinking

Bimmerpost's Law: eventually all threads become manual vs DCT

Said differently, given enough time, all threads will revert to the master thread: manual vs DCT.

[tchiers]

Got my survey email, added to the chorus of "I bought this car because it has a manual, and if you axe it, you risk losing my business" Let's hope it helps.

I'm at least a little optimistic - I remind you all that BMW made a stick available on the F10 M5 in North America only because of the demands of the customer base here.

[solstice]

With all huge changes it's time for BMW to offer a "purist" version of the M3 to complement the fast version ( CS ). We need an R model. MT, NA, Hydraulic Steering, Lightened. Anyone here doubt it will sell like hot cakes and become an instant classic selling at 2x asking? I sure don't doubt it taken what happens when Porsche goes down this route.

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by tchiers

Got my survey email, added to the chorus of "I bought this car because it has a manual, and if you axe it, you risk losing my business" Let's hope it helps.

I'm at least a little optimistic - I remind you all that BMW made a stick available on the F10 M5 in North America only because of the demands of the customer base here.

I think this is the way it will go, North America will get a MT but the majority of markets won't, here in the UK we couldn't really care less anymore, we love our DCT's and to even see a manual M3/4 is a rarity.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

and i thought this thread wasn't going to become a dct vs. manual thread. what the fuck was i thinking

What happens when BMW takes away the manual option in the next iteration? Do these threads just become DCT vs an imaginary transmission ?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

I don't really know what to say here...

You demonstrated that with your previous post.