[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Your first statement doesn't hold water. VW group is the umbrella company that owns Porsche right? I completely understand and agree with your second paragraph though.

Haha, of course it is. Did you miss the earlier statement about Toyota and Lexus?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Ha, most Yota drivers are terrible & I always have to go around them.

If you're trying to drive, like actually drive, and not post pictures, eat soup or curl your hair, you're gonna have to go around most cars. This one time, I passed a Bugatti...

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Haha, of course it is. Did you miss the earlier statement about Toyota and Lexus?

Got it. Happy hr is kicking my ass.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Got it. Happy hr is kicking my ass.

Haha, keep going until your responses are in German.

[uniqueMR]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

That's somewhat like saying Audi is nothing but a VW. Or Porsche is nothing but a ... VW. Or Lambo is nothing but a ... WAIT FOR IT! -- a VW.

Oversimplifying this way is just ignorant. Or comment bait. Which I guess worked, eh?

Well I understand what you saying. But Audi, VW, Lamborghini, Porsche have their own history, beginning, etc. Now, they are fully owned or subsidiaries of Volkswagen Group.

On the other hand, Acura/Lexus/Infiniti were just created out of their parent companies. Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infiniti.

So, wait for it ......, there is a BIG difference


Lastly, there is no competition between Acura, Lexus, Infiniti with German/European cars. Zip, none
Rather, Acura/Lexus/Infiniti should compete between each other.

Chapter Closed. Period. Keep moving

[MalibuBimmer]

I seriously considered the SC 500. But the front end is horrendous and it was a bit soft. So I got the AMG GT instead to replace my i8. Another polarizing front end, but one I really like. When I first saw the Panamericana grille I knew that was my next car.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Isn't that true of every Lexus or Toyota ever? Slight exception for MkIV Supra and honorable mention to the unobtainable LFA.

Sort of like complaining that a Defender 110 isn't quite fast enough.

Which is why I never owned a Toyota except for my wife's RX (which was great).

[ShocknAwe]

Saw one of these getting delivered to the local dealer a couple weeks back. Almost broke my neck looking at it. Really nice looking vehicle.

If they could find a way to drop the weight from it I'd be willing to consider it as a cruiser.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by uniqueMR

Lastly, there is no competition between Acura, Lexus, Infiniti with German/European cars. Zip, none
Rather, Acura/Lexus/Infiniti should compete between each other.

Chapter Closed. Period. Keep moving

Ask every single one of those German companies how sales went in the 1990s and 2000s after those brands were introduced, and you'll discover that your statement is false to the point of being comic. Dude: The entire reason those brands were created was to compete with, and take market share away from, European luxury marques! Today, those same German car companies all have market share taken up by those other brands. Your statement is just flat-out false.

They may not compete in your mind and in the minds of some others on this enthusiast-centered forum, but they compete ably with most everyone else in the markets in question. Newsflash! You don't speak for everybody. Otherwise, these companies would all be dead ...

... kind of like Lambo, Audi, and Porsche would all be dead if it weren't for VW. Your other point is well taken (thank you for acknowledging mine), but you wouldn't even be able to make an argument at all if those companies 'with their own history' were still on their own.

[buddalun]

LC looks great in-person and has a fantastic interior.

I'd like to drive one for an afternoon, and then pass judgment.

[R N M]

LC 500 is a GT cruiser and a budget Aston Db11. MT did a nice comparo in which the LC did well.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Ask every single one of those German companies how sales went in the 1990s and 2000s after those brands were introduced, and you'll discover that your statement is false to the point of being comic. Dude: The entire reason those brands were created was to compete with, and take market share away from, European luxury marques! Today, those same German car companies all have market share taken up by those other brands. Your statement is just flat-out false.

They may not compete in your mind and in the minds of some others on this enthusiast-centered forum, but they compete ably with most everyone else in the markets in question. Newsflash! You don't speak for everybody. Otherwise, these companies would all be dead ...

... kind of like Lambo, Audi, and Porsche would all be dead if it weren't for VW. Your other point is well taken (thank you for acknowledging mine), but you wouldn't even be able to make an argument at all if those companies 'with their own history' were still on their own.

Not too many people that can easily afford the Germans actually buy Lexus much less Acura or Infiniti. Lexus has very little sales of cars over $60k.

Lexus needs to worry about Genesis stealing their market share.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by R N M

Not too many people that can easily afford the Germans actually buy Lexus much less Acura or Infiniti. Lexus has very little sales of cars over $60k.

Lexus needs to worry about Genesis stealing their market share.

I beg to differ, particularly regarding SUV sales. Acura isn't what it once was, but the other two are, and they are doing fine -- more than fine, actually. A couple of comparisons using 2017 U.S. sales figures:

Lexus SUVs: 200,000, up 3.2 percent
M-B SUVs: 160,000, up 3.1 percent
BMW SUVs: 103,000, down 0.4 percent
Infiniti SUVs: 96,000, up 13.9 percent

Note which marque is at the top by a wide margin -- and that the Lexus RX alone (108,000 sold) outsold all BMW SUVs, including two models (X1 and X3) that have a base price below the RX.

Just stop it before you dig your hole even deeper, OK?

[Red Bread]

Yeah, comment was baseless. Even pulling LS vs 7er sales for the US only shows how much SUV sales are impacting sedan sales. Both are down year over year for the last five or six years and while the 7er outsells the LS, neither move in large volumes.

And having lived in Orange County and the Park Cities in Dallas, you couldn't swing a proverbial dead cat without hitting a Lexus or Infiniti. Not sure what faux elitist world he was talking about, but the college campuses were sure full of German cars too.


BMW
7-series
2017 9.276
2016 12.918
2015 9.292
2014 9.744
2013 10.932
2012 11.098
2011 11.299
2010 12.253
2009 9.254
2008 12.276
2007 14.773
2006 17.796


Lexus
LS
2017 4.094
2016 5.514
2015 7.165
2014 8.559
2013 10.727
2012 8.344
2011 9.568
2010 12.275
2009 11.334
2008 20.255
2007 35.226
2006 19.546

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

And having lived in Orange County and the Park Cities in Dallas, you couldn't swing a proverbial dead cat without hitting a Lexus or Infiniti.

Precisely. I live in Dallas as well (downtown), and the number of Lexus/Infiniti vs. BMW/Merc SUVs is roughly equal to my eye, if not slightly skewed toward the former pair -- and car-wise, I'd also give the edge to the former, particularly in northern 'burbs that don't end in 'lake'.

Dude's listed as being in NYC -- a place where individual affluence is judged partially by wristwatches because almost no one drives. Yeah, that's a fair place to assess the entire country from ... :: sigh ::

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Precisely. I live in Dallas as well (downtown), and the number of Lexus/Infiniti vs. BMW/Merc SUVs is roughly equal to my eye, if not slightly skewed toward the former pair -- and car-wise, I'd also give the edge to the former, particularly in northern 'burbs that don't end in 'lake'.

Dude's listed as being in NYC -- a place where individual affluence is judged partially by wristwatches because almost no one drives. Yeah, that's a fair place to assess the entire country from ... :: sigh ::

Well yeah, his idea of swanky is a Lincoln MKT or an orange Nissan van. I see the confusion.

[Ian1973]

If I could afford it I would love it. Could pick it up used.

[Bt12]

Saw this in person just now... was impressed. Rear wider qtr panels. Presence felt similar to i8

[Yvette]

I like the styling

[Blackraven]

I would rather choose a Lexus LC500 over say a BMW 650i M-sport Coupe.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

I would rather choose a Lexus LC500 over say a BMW 650i M-sport Coupe.

Ye but what about new 8 series?
LC is NOT selling at all unfortunately.

Lexus sells ton of cheap RX/NX crossovers which is 99% of sales.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by R N M

Ye but what about new 8 series?
LC is NOT selling at all unfortunately.

Lexus sells ton of cheap RX/NX crossovers which is 99% of sales.

I'm sure you know you're wrong. But total NX and RX sales are less than 60% of total Lexus sales. And the LC is certainly outselling the i8. Of course, I think the Karma is outselling the i8.

488 i8s to 2,487 LCs for 2017, and the LC wasn't available for the whole year.

While it's not a fair comparison as the 6er was a Lame Duck last year but 2017 was 3,355, and 2016 was 3,947. That's for a cheaper base car with three body styles, two drive formats, two transmissions and three engine choices, compared to two motor choices for the LC.