[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by cblandin

I know the current 3 series is nearing the end of its life cycle, but it is kind of amazing to see the Tesla Model 3 outselling the BMW by such a healthy margin. BMW really needs to get their next gen electrics out NOW!

I want to see if Tesla is still around in 5-10 years as a purveyor of electric vehicles.

Besides, their fit and finish is generally horrid in relation to the astronomical amounts of money they ask for those cars. Have you ever seen the gaps of a 1990s Kia? Just take a closer look at any new Tesla product. Is that bad. If the exterior is poorly put together imagine how are the areas hidden from plain sight?

I have driven them extensively and the concept is novel but not there yet. Many strange compromises when it comes to safety in these cars like electric release handles for the front and rear doors in the model 3. And this is not even considering how violent and difficult to extinguish are lithium battery fires, a factor few consider.

When the industry makes an electric vehicle that can be fully charged in 5 minutes of less (The time it currently takes me to fill up the 16 gallon tank in my 530i), then at that point it will be check mate for ICE vehicles. Also a minimum range of 400-500 miles on a single charge is a must.

Give the industry another 10 years to mature the electric car and make it truly a viable option for the masses, not the wealthy 1%.

And given the choice, I would take a BMW electric car every time over a Tesla because the legacy manufacturers at least know how to properly put together a car.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Not impressive at all. Without the X2, car sales would have tanked by 1,500 cars year over year. Only "car" bright spot was the 7 Series sales level doubling.

With BMWUSA ending heavy subsidized lease deals, you can expect their sales number to suffer. A new BMW X2 or 330i costs the average annual national income of an American family. Very few can swing the purchase of $50K+ new vehicles. Salaries have remained stagnant vs the prices of new cars and housing....

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

With BMWUSA ending heavy subsidized lease deals, you can expect their sales number to suffer. A new BMW X2 or 330i costs the average annual national income of an American family. Very few can swing the purchase of $50K+ new vehicles. Salaries have remained stagnant vs the prices of new cars and housing....

I just found it striking that the 2, 3, 4 series all declined, and 5, 7 series were up. I get more excitement for new models but when your bread and butter is off, that’s kind of worrisome. Clearly bleeding sales to elsewhere (Alfa, Audi, Mercedes...???) but who picking up the lion’s share of lost sales.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

I just found it striking that the 2, 3, 4 series all declined, and 5, 7 series were up. I get more excitement for new models but when your bread and butter is off, that's kind of worrisome. Clearly bleeding sales to elsewhere (Alfa, Audi, Mercedes...???) but who picking up the lion's share of lost sales.

2 Series is a very good car, but too specialty if you will. Lacks a 4 door option, which limits its appeal. A bit pricey too.

3 Series is at this end of its production cycle. It is a 6 year old model whose age and deficiencies are glaring in the face of stronger competition. F30 platform handling dynamics and interior quality has been the Achilles heel of this generation. Even the LCI could not significantly improve the car. The most forgettable of all 3-Series iterations. Will the G20 pick up where the E90 left off?

4 Series ditto another F30 platform better looking but same deficiencies.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

I just found it striking that the 2, 3, 4 series all declined, and 5, 7 series were up. I get more excitement for new models but when your bread and butter is off, that’s kind of worrisome. Clearly bleeding sales to elsewhere (Alfa, Audi, Mercedes...???) but who picking up the lion’s share of lost sales.

Or moving to another segment.
It is to no surprise that traditional segments continue to be eaten away by sales of more popular equivalent SUV models. We are starting to see this migration in other markets. Someone who is in the market for a 3er,C-Klasse,A4 or Guilia would more than likely leave with an X3,GLC,Q5 or Stelvio.

If we take European markets the 1er as an example in the C-Segment is being sustained by customers migrating to the 2er Active Tourer, X1 and now the X2.

Every manufacturer is being driven by their SUV sales in the USA. When the new X5 comes in line I am expecting to see slight decline with the 5er same for the 7er with the X7 in the USA despite the arrival of the LCI with a full line of updated engines and drivetrains.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by cc3

Some of these numbers will take a nosedive if Trump adds his 25% import tax on the overseas built vehicles. Expect him to do it as he will probably have a paddy once the EU starts taxing Harley's, Levi's etc etc and he has said before he wants to ban the import of German luxury cars.

The 25% tariff on automobiles is not real. It is a number conjured up from US tariffs on foreign steel.

I wouldn't predict more than a 10% tariff on vehicles shipped to the EU since 10% is what the EU's tariff is on US automobiles. Considering the current US tariff on EU automobiles is 2.5%, the theoretical worst-case scenario is an additional 7.5%.

Let's hope for a best-case scenario, with both the EU and US agreeing to remove tariffs on automobiles altogether!

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Scott26,

How is the BMW 5-Series G30 currently doing sales wise in the US market?

I ask because this market is generally hostile to sedans and big/expensive ones at that.

We are looking at probably the first full year of G30 since its introduction in Spring 2017. So last years were a mixture of F10 and F07.
Seems to be at a success in the US market now that the F07 is no longer part of the series. However in the US I expect the 5er might face internal competition to the new X5. It is a highly impressive SAV.

In Other global markets the car remains the best selling mid-level executive Sedan in the segment. Like the 3er we are also seeing markets adapt the 530e as not the best Seller in its segment. But also in its general market as the best selling model.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Or moving to another segment.
It is to no surprise that traditional segments continue to be eaten away by sales of more popular equivalent SUV models. We are starting to see this migration in other markets. Someone who is in the market for a 3er,C-Klasse,A4 or Guilia would more than likely leave with an X3,GLC,Q5 or Stelvio.

If we take European markets the 1er as an example in the C-Segment is being sustained by customers migrating to the 2er Active Tourer, X1 and now the X2.

Every manufacturer is being driven by their SUV sales in the USA. When the new X5 comes in line I am expecting to see slight decline with the 5er same for the 7er with the X7 in the USA despite the arrival of the LCI with a full line of updated engines and drivetrains.

I agree and disagree. Yes, there is a migration to SUVs, but the GLC is killing the new X3. BMW 3/4 Series, Audi A3/A4, and Mercedes C Class sales are down, but Alfa Giulia is actually way up. Though only 1,200ish sales per month, but 18 months ago, they weren’t even in the U.S., so they are stealing 14-15k/year from somebody, and it appears to be the Germans. The Kia Stinger did 1,700+ in sales last month too. The Germans definitely need to step it up as they no longer dominate the performance segment like they once did, and it is only going to get even more cutthroat in MY2019.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

i3 down 16%? Are the refreshed i3s not here yet?

[Mirrari]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

i3 down 16%? Are the refreshed i3s not here yet?

They are but the sticker price is high and there's more competition on the market, and they're not trying to market it at all. I essentially didn't even know it existed until I started researching incentives for EVs.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

I just found it striking that the 2, 3, 4 series all declined, and 5, 7 series were up. I get more excitement for new models but when your bread and butter is off, that’s kind of worrisome. Clearly bleeding sales to elsewhere (Alfa, Audi, Mercedes...???) but who picking up the lion’s share of lost sales.

They're bleeding sales to Tesla.
Tesla model 3 outsells BMW 3-series in the US if I recall correctly.
You will never hear BMW admit it of course.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by matbl

They're bleeding sales to Tesla.
Tesla model 3 outsells BMW 3-series in the US if I recall correctly.
You will never hear BMW admit it of course.

How is that possible with Tesla barely able to even produce the model 3?

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by matbl

Tesla model 3 outsells BMW 3-series in the US if I recall correctly.
You will never hear BMW admit it of course.

First, Tesla is the most secretive company in the auto industry when it comes to sharing hard data. Kind of golden to hear you cast doubt on BMW sharing numbers here.

Also, the 10,000/month number (required to put sell the BMW 3 Series was #fakenews. They didn't even achieve 4000 units in April.

Reality Check: Tesla Model 3 Sales are Bad

https://gas2.org/2018/05/02/reality-...sales-are-bad/

[matbl]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

First, Tesla is the most secretive company in the auto industry when it comes to sharing hard data. Kind of golden to hear you cast doubt on BMW sharing numbers here.

Also, the 10,000/month number (required to put sell the BMW 3 Series was #fakenews. They didn't even achieve 4000 units in April.

Reality Check: Tesla Model 3 Sales are Bad

https://gas2.org/2018/05/02/reality-...sales-are-bad/

They do share their monthly delivery numbers.
May 2018:
Tesla model 3: 6250
BMW 3 series (all variants combined): 3428
Audi A4/S4: 3472
Mercedes C class: 5419

These are US numbers.
It's all publicly available data. Check for yourself.

[tdott]

"Short sellers betting against Tesla lose more than $1 billion in single day as stock pops
Tesla bears have lost nearly $5 billion in mark-to-market losses since 2016, S3 finds.
The electric car maker is one of the most heavily shorted stocks in the U.S., as well as the most heavily shorted automaker in the world."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/06/shor...1-billion.html

You guys thinking they will fail, should put your money where your month is, if you are soo right, you should be rich by now. Otherwise all talk.