[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by TreDirtyFive

Another Year..Another Mercedes Benz beatdown. Yikes.

Not much of a beat down. Only 5K units.

https://www.autonews.com/sales/luxur...ura-tops-caddy

I remember how only 2-3 years ago BMW eked out a win and took the mantle of the highest selling luxury brand. UGH.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mose121

So where are all the more affordable enthusiast based models that were supposed to be made viable by selling the dozens of other models that have overly bloated the model lineup over the last decade? Still no Z4M planned, haven't heard anything about a small entry level ///M product, G2X wagons aren't coming to the U.S., but thank God the hideous beast that is the X7 is coming to market. Come on BMW. Several years straight of record sales and we're still not getting any bones thrown our way. Give us a pure, simple, lightweight, 2 door coupe ///M car at an entry level pricepoint. The M2 doesn't count. I'm talking about a two door, two seat, no frills, sports car. I guarantee you'll sell twice as many of those cars vs every 6 series variant combined.

you are incorrect on the " Several years straight of record sales"

that streak ended in 2016... but they have rebounded a bit in 2018

Originally Posted by wesleyan92

Not much of a beat down. Only 4K units.

https://www.autonews.com/sales/luxur...ura-tops-caddy

Mercedes-Benz maintained its grasp of the U.S. luxury sales crown for the third year in a row — barely — while Acura topped Cadillac for the third time since 2012.

For the year, Mercedes sold 315,959 luxury vehicles, down 6.3 percent from the same period a year ago. Rival BMW was hot on Mercedes’ heels, reporting sales of 311,014 vehicles in 2018, up 1.7 percent

I remember how only 2-3 years ago BME eked out a win and took the mantle of the highest selling luxury brand. UGH.

true story... but with more new " first ever " models coming out in MY 2020... it looks like BMW is poised to re-take the lead after a three year hiatus, on the strength of the SAV lines..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

2017:

BMW Cars: 202,201 - 30,826 = 171,375
BMW SAVs: 103,484 + 30,826 = 134,310

2018:

BMW Cars: 193,465 - (29,060 + 16,154) = 148,251
BMW SAVs: 117,549 + (29,060 + 16,154) = 162,763

that's gonna skew even more when the X7 hits..

[mose121]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

that's gonna skew even more when the X7 hits..

Those numbers are already skewed by the fact that the 3 series was at the end of its lifecycle and BMW introduced many updated models in the SAV line up (X2, X3, X5). New G2X 3 series sales will outsell those models as the "new model" hype dies down. X7 volume will be insignificant in comparison to G2X sales.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by wesleyan92

Not much of a beat down. Only 4K units.

https://www.autonews.com/sales/luxur...ura-tops-caddy

I remember how only 2-3 years ago BME eked out a win and took the mantle of the highest selling luxury brand. UGH.

For the tenth consecutive month, the BMW X3 was the top-selling BMW model in the U.S., followed by the new BMW X5. The BMW X3 and X5, combined, represented more than two out of every 5 BMW vehicles sold in the U.S. in December.

Sales of electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids totaled 2,774 in December, up 2 percent from a year ago.

Porsche Cars North America reported December U.S. sales of 4,086 vehicles, a 4.4 percent uptick from the same time last year. Retail sales for 2018 climbed 3.2 percent to 57,202. It was the seventh consecutive record year of growth for Porsche.

The Macan led the pack with more than 23,504 deliveries in 2018, up 9.7 percent. Panamera sales rose 19 percent to 8,042 units. Meanwhile. Porsche 911 sales accelerated 7.6 percent to 9,647 units, helped by strong demand for GT models.


So much good info in that article ....

BMW sold more X3 units (61,351) .. than Porsche entire annual sales of 57,202 vehicles.. (41% Macan, 17% 911 , 14% Panamera )...

[cfm56d7b]

The declining F3x sales are understandable.

As F3x model leaves the reigns to G2x, it's still not clear why BMW hasn't yet offered an electromagnetic suspension even as an option.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by mose121

Those numbers are already skewed by the fact that the 3 series was at the end of its lifecycle and BMW introduced many updated models in the SAV line up (X2, X3, X5).

That’s a fair point, but I am skeptical that we’ll see those totals swap places any time soon (if ever). Premium sedans have shown more resiliency against the surging popularity of SUVs than non-premium sedans, but there’s a limit to how much you can buck the trend.

The G20 looks like a winner, but there are new engines and interior updates coming to the SAV lineup this year too. Sales will remain strong.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

That's a fair point, but I am skeptical that we'll see those totals swap places any time soon (if ever). Premium sedans have shown more resiliency against the surging popularity of SUVs than non-premium sedans, but there's a limit to how much you can buck the trend.

The G20 looks like a winner, but there are new engines and interior updates coming to the SAV lineup this year too. Sales will remain strong.

SUVs and CUVs are fads.

Look at Tesla... their best sellers are the Model 3 and S (Both sedans) not the X which to me looks like a minivan with gullwing doors.

That goes to show there is nothing wrong with Sedans and much to do with the marketing messages that tells you that tall looking vehicles are cool/macho and makes you the ultimate Schmuck out in the road.

[cfm56d7b]

I agree. There is nothing wrong with sedans. Years ago, car manufacturers began to realize that there is way to go beyond two main consumer segments: sedan buyers ("will never buy a floating boat on wheels") and the original SUV body-on-frame buyers ("will never buy anything that cannot accommodate my family's soccer equipment after a fishing trip"). Pickup trucks are beyond this discussion.

BMW was one of the first car manufacturers to suggest that there is room for a third main consumer segment: SUVs that can behave like a sports car - or SAV in BMW speak. Other car manufacturers began to follow with sedan based micro SUVs and crossover designs. Aggregate X5 and now X3 sales show that BMW product planners were correct. Incidentally, Toyota 4Runner still enjoys popularity because its body-on-frame design continues to appeal to those that want a more capable SUV.

Choice is a wonderful concept for consumers.

[ScottAndrew]

Another big, rusty nail clubbed into the coffin of globalised product ranges, hard enough to splinter the wood. BMW needs a US-only product range, manufactured locally with local design input and market-only specification. These "world cars" with their funny ways just aren't cutting it!

[M2Cmtl]

I'm surprised the X3 is doing so well with the interior it has, feels like 2012 F30 to me.

[chicagofreeman]

Q5 and Q7 are Audi's top two selling models, sold 70k and 35k respectively in 2018. SUV/SAV is the trend.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

BMW... as most other companies.. including Porsche.. have become an SUV/SAV company in order to maintain profitablity. . Just as the Macan is 40% of Porsche sales... the X3 and X5 are the top two selling BMW models.


i hope that strong SUV?SAV sales as well as i/e models allow niche model sports cars to continue to be supported.

It continues to be automotive tragedy that BMW doesn't have a 2 series sedan alongside the coupe and has allowed competitors to take the small sporty euro sedan mantle.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

97 i8s sold in December?

Lol this report is so full of shit. There's over 100 new ones listed since I personally made my own search on cars.com accounting for VINs and everything! #fraud

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

97 i8s sold in December?

Lol this report is so full of shit. There's over 100 new ones listed since I personally made my own search on cars.com accounting for VINs and everything! #fraud

Do these figures just count sold to dealer (never worked in this industry, can dealer kick models back?) or sold to consumers?

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by clee1982

Do these figures just count sold to dealer (never worked in this industry, can dealer kick models back?) or sold to consumers?

I never worked in the auto industry either, but this obviously has to be the case where it's sold to dealers, not customers.

There's no way in hell with the given rates/incentives/demand they sold/leased 100 i8s last month, when there's currently 418 new ones sitting on lots at the moment

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

SUVs and CUVs are fads.

Well, I won’t argue semantics of what constitutes a fad vs. a trend vs. a paradigm or whatever other terms one could select.

The numbers show what’s happening, and passenger cars lost sizable share to light trucks again in 2018.

https://www.marklines.com/en/statist...esfig_usa_2018

I notice you didn’t offer any opinion about when you expect this situation to begin to reverse course.

Look at Tesla... their best sellers are the Model 3 and S (Both sedans) not the X which to me looks like a minivan with gullwing doors.

No doubt there are still exceptions, but the Model Y is coming as is the Tesla pickup. Tesla clearly sees sales potential in light trucks.

Also notice that most other EVs that were introduced last year - the E-Pace, the e-tron, the EQC, the Kona, the Niro, are SUVs. So automakers are seeing strong SUV demand from EV buyers.

That goes to show there is nothing wrong with Sedans and much to do with the marketing messages that tells you that tall looking vehicles are cool/macho and makes you the ultimate Schmuck out in the road.

But then it isn’t about the merits or viability of the sedan - plenty of products with lots of great qualities have failed to last. If the marketing message is the impetus (and for the sake or argument we’ll agree it is), then it’s obviously being heard. That situation doesn’t appear likely to change without some major event. If you truly believe that’s going to happen, there’s a boatload of money to be made. Head over to your favorite online investing website and put your money down.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Well, I won’t argue semantics of what constitutes a fad vs. a trend vs. a paradigm or whatever other terms one could select.

The numbers show what’s happening, and passenger cars lost sizable share to light trucks again in 2018.

https://www.marklines.com/en/statist...esfig_usa_2018

I notice you didn’t offer any opinion about when you expect this situation to begin to reverse course.



No doubt there are still exceptions, but the Model Y is coming as is the Tesla pickup. Tesla clearly sees sales potential in light trucks.

Also notice that most other EVs that were introduced last year - the E-Pace, the Q Tron, the EQC, the Kona, the Niro, are SUVs. So automakers are seeing strong SUV demand from EV buyers.



But then it isn’t about the merits or viability of the sedan - plenty of products with lots of great qualities have failed to last. If the marketing message is the impetus (and for the sake or argument we’ll agree it is), then it’s obviously being heard. That situation doesn’t appear likely to change without some major event. If you truly believe that’s going to happen, there’s a boatload of money to be made. Head over to your favorite online investing website and put your money down.

+1 Love this response. SUVs are not a fad - that is why every car manufacturer has dived head first into product design and roll out. The struggles that Hyundai is facing today (volume, profitability, etc.) is directly attributable to the lack of SUVs in their lineup:

https://carbuzz.com/news/it-may-take...r-its-mistakes

Unscientific point of view; I was always a 4 door sedan person; however, as the performance and the looks have SUVs have improved, I am slowly gravitating towards them - I like the way they ride, I like sitting, and I like the luxuries they come with. My first choice once my M5 lease is up will most likely be a CPO X5M till the new F95 X5M comes out in 2020. At least that is what my heart is telling this week

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

Another big, rusty nail clubbed into the coffin of globalised product ranges, hard enough to splinter the wood. BMW needs a US-only product range, manufactured locally with local design input and market-only specification. These "world cars" with their funny ways just aren't cutting it!

To the contrary:

- BMW’s total sales are up 1.3% in market that was up only 0.3%
- BMW’s passenger cars sales are only down 4.3% where the market is down a whopping 13.1%

Meanwhile their SAVs are performing terrifically here, which means they are very competitive on what’s clearly an SUV-heavy playing field. BMW is succeeding by using the same strategy every other automaker in the US is - adjusting product mix toward SUVs since that’s what consumers here want.

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by mose121

So where are all the more affordable enthusiast based models that were supposed to be made viable by selling the dozens of other models that have overly bloated the model lineup over the last decade? Still no Z4M planned, haven't heard anything about a small entry level ///M product, G2X wagons aren't coming to the U.S., but thank God the hideous beast that is the X7 is coming to market. Come on BMW. Several years straight of record sales and we're still not getting any bones thrown our way. Give us a pure, simple, lightweight, 2 door coupe ///M car at an entry level pricepoint. The M2 doesn't count. I'm talking about a two door, two seat, no frills, sports car. I guarantee you'll sell twice as many of those cars vs every 6 series variant combined.

well said Mose. still waiting for BMW to build a simple sports car that's fun to drive. no need for 700 hp just raw driving experience with a NA 280 hp I6!

[mose121]

Originally Posted by wdeerfield

at least just allow us who want a wagon to do ED for it and bring back to the states a nice M340i wagon.

Honestly I believe BMW shot themselves in the foot by not offering the 6 cylinder turbo in the wagons. I would have bought one a long time ago had they offered it. And ultimately with the announcement that G2X wagons won't be coming to the U.S. I bit the bullet and bought one anyway. I'd probably be in my 3rd or 4th wagon now had they offered the N55. The U.S. market demands the more powerful engines be at least an option if you want to move more units. I know at least a half dozen other people that would have been loyal repeat wagon buyers if they just could've gotten the 6 cylinder.

[wdeerfield]

Originally Posted by mose121

Honestly I believe BMW shot themselves in the foot by not offering the 6 cylinder turbo in the wagons. I would have bought one a long time ago had they offered it. And ultimately with the announcement that G2X wagons won't be coming to the U.S. I bit the bullet and bought one anyway. I'd probably be in my 3rd or 4th wagon now had they offered the N55. The U.S. market demands the more powerful engines be at least an option if you want to move more units. I know at least a half dozen other people that would have been loyal repeat wagon buyers if they just could've gotten the 6 cylinder.

They wont sell them here because they make so many suv's here. its not cost effective, which is unfortunate for those that want wagons and not mall crawlers.

[D742]

Originally Posted by wdeerfield

at least just allow us who want a wagon to do ED for it and bring back to the states a nice M340i wagon.

It is not just BMW. Earlier this week I tried to buy a 2019 V60 (since BMW left the market), and "the deal" was MSRP -- period. But they had some nice XC60s that I could look at! I wasn't even playing hardball, just a little movement so that I didn't feel like I was being played would have gotten them an easy, clean sale.

It seems that every car company is putting 100% of their effort into chasing the same 90% of the market.