[Viffermike]

Late-model Abarth 500? That's what I'd choose -- either that or a Chevy Sonic LTZ hatch. Both are small, cheap, easy to fix, relatively uncomplicated, and a lot of fun to drive at legal speeds.

Was never a fan of the quirky/goofy Ford econobox design language.
Except for the Type R, the last three generations of Civics have been characterless.
As much as I personally like GTis, I totally understand those that say they have become too civilized.

If it were just for urban driving I might think about an i3. But only if I never intended to leave the city in it.

[SpinRush]

The Honda Civic Type R is a monster hatchback. It’s really fast. If you can find a dealer that will let you test drive the Type R you will understand instantly.

Be cautious of Honda dealers in the U.S though. I’ve heard some of them like to go over MSRP by as much as 10,000 USD before you even touch the option boxes. If you can find a dealer that will sell at MSRP then you are in for a hell of a deal.

[ScottyRyan2019]

My son has a 2018 Focus ST. The stock tires on it were crap in the winter as they were summer only tires. We put on a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires on it and it made a big difference ( we have them on all three of our vehicles now). He really likes the car. Fun to drive and decent economy with good power. He is 6' 5 and has the Recaro seats and he says they fit him well.

I've been around 2 of the 3 cars listed here, so I thought I'd share my thoughts . If I was to choose between the three today, I think I'd get the Fiesta ST. Watching them at autocross look like a complete hoot. I was disappointed when there were none near me to test drive when I was looking at the FoST.

Focus ST
----------
I owned a '14 Focus ST (ST3 too, every option but sunroof) for just about two years. It was a great car, I had no issues over the time I owned the car. I am not a Ford fanboy, I had never owned one before.

It was a little manic (especially after I installed the FRPP tune) but I still enjoyed driving it. I know looks are subjective but I think all years of the FoST look pretty good.

It hit a really awesome sweet spot at the tim - Fun to drive, decent on gas, rubber is cheap, maintenance is cheap, can fit 17" wheels for winter. Infotainment wasn't great that year (I hear it was better in the facelifted models).

I am a bigger guy and ended up moving on because I grew to hate the Recaro seats. I thought they would open up a bit as they broke in... and they didn't. I found they caused back pain/fatigue in general, I felt like I had to stretch every 45-60 minutes of driving.

If I had gone back in time and looked at this again... I think I would have taken the base model ST1.

Civic Si
--------
I owned an older Civic Si (2008 Sedan) and my mother has a brand new '18 Si. I think they are great looking cars. Really impressive technology that comes with them from the factory. She is really happy with it. Love that it still comes with an LSD. No issues to report. Just gas and oil so far. The re-sale and reliability are always great in a Honda.

Car is pretty comfortable to drive. I could see it being a great daily driver. Honda transmissions always feel great, but the rev hang is pretttttty terrible. I complained about rev hang in my '08, and it's gotten way worse since then.

All in all, I think I had more fun driving my FoST, it just feels a bit more lively with the extra power and torque.

[MassNerd]

I won't make any recommendations for you, but most of the responses are focusing on the FUN part of your post. You did state daily driver to and to me the definition of daily driver is directly opposed to fun. Its really a tradeoff of practicality and comfort versus fun.

So there's a spectrum of fun to practical/comfortable and no wrong choice anywhere on that spectrum. It's very personal. So my suggestion is get a list of cars out of this thread and go test drive them yourself. Don't dismiss cars like the GTI because one person says its not as fun as the Festiva ST. You need to decide whether you want to trade the rawness of the ST for some comfort/luxury in the GTI.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I cross-posted this in the Camaro forums, but looking for more opinions here.

I'm thinking about selling my 2003 Mini Cooper daily driver and getting a newer daily driver. I want it to be economical, decent in snow, have fairly new tech, and be fun year round. My budget is $12,000 to $14,000.

I like my Mini because it's so easy to drive and park, and has the super-quick steering and decent handling. Plus, it's small size makes it seem like it's going faster than it is. It's fun. I don't want another Mini however, because of the thousands I have had to put into mine in the past few years.

I'm thinking about a 2013-14 Honda Civic Si, a 2015-16 Fiesta ST, or a 2014-15 Focus ST. I test drove a 2018 Fiesta ST last year and liked it a lot. Never drove a Civic Si or Focus ST.

The Honda appeals to me mostly because of the reputation for reliability. I'm wondering if it might be somewhat boring though? The Fiesta ST and Focus ST appeal to me because they seem fun, punchy, and reasonable to maintain.

Looking for opinions on these cars.

WRX? For 1 big reason.....no torque steer.

[Red Bread]

Wait, WRX's don't have torque steer? Next you'll tell me they don't understeer too.

My GTI has less torque steer than a WRX or STI. If you're trying to avoid torque steer, CTR all day.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Wait, WRX's don't have torque steer? Next you'll tell me they don't understeer too.

My GTI has less torque steer than a WRX or STI. If you're trying to avoid torque steer, CTR all day.

Really? WRX has 4 wheel drive. Though it has been 12 years since I drove one (WRX). I am in an Ascent today however(my wife's loaner car), it has the WRX engine (beats the hell out of a big v-6) and doesn't seem to have the torque steer.

FYI
We've had the Ascent a week, and I would highly recommend it over all the other big V6 SUV's. Almost as responsive as the X5 loaner I had last year.

[Red Bread]

It's only a 50/50 split, and they still torque steer pretty badly. In so many ways, they drive like a fwd car, even an STI with the torque set as far to the back as possible is an under steering pig.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

It's only a 50/50 split, and they still torque steer pretty badly. In so many ways, they drive like a fwd car, even an STI with the torque set as far to the back as possible is an under steering pig.

Seconded. I had a mildly modded '09 5-door. It was quick and handled OK, but it did have significant torque steer.

Even so, a WRX -- NOT an STi; 'just' a WRX -- is a GREAT daily-driver suggestion. Subies are as bulletproof as any small car around. They're not very economical comparatively, but that's as much of a function or your right foot as anything, really.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by SpinRush

The Honda Civic Type R is a monster hatchback. It’s really fast. If you can find a dealer that will let you test drive the Type R you will understand instantly.

Be cautious of Honda dealers in the U.S though. I’ve heard some of them like to go over MSRP by as much as 10,000 USD before you even touch the option boxes. If you can find a dealer that will sell at MSRP then you are in for a hell of a deal.

His budget is $12-$14k USD. That won't buy a third of a Type R.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

His budget is $12-$14k USD. That won't buy a third of a Type R.

That might get you the few good looking parts though. Leave all the ugly ones off.

[Viffermike]

TRUTH.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

It's only a 50/50 split, and they still torque steer pretty badly. In so many ways, they drive like a fwd car, even an STI with the torque set as far to the back as possible is an under steering pig.

Well, the better description is "massive understeer, followed by snap-oversteer".

Putting the engine in front of the front axle has consequences...

[Humdizzle]

I'd go civic. Honda just makes great daily drivers in my opinion. everything works. Even on my 09 base model civic. everything just works and it fires up no problem snow or shine. I get 30mpg with a lead foot doing 85-90mph most of the time on the highway

The most fun in this price range is still an FRS/BRZ. You just can't beat RWD for fun factor. I would slide that car around every chance I got. Even with a few inches of snow it still did ok on oem tires because they are so skinny they just cut through. But the main reason I sold it was all the noises and rattles and crappy stereo. the car has no sound deadening.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by SpinRush

The Honda Civic Type R is a monster hatchback. It’s really fast. If you can find a dealer that will let you test drive the Type R you will understand instantly.

Be cautious of Honda dealers in the U.S though. I’ve heard some of them like to go over MSRP by as much as 10,000 USD before you even touch the option boxes. If you can find a dealer that will sell at MSRP then you are in for a hell of a deal.

My experience is the add on $3000+ of crap on every car. Pinstripes, nitrogen in the tires, etc. We were looking at the Outback and a CVR, the dealership experience totally turned us off the Honda.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

My experience is the add on $3000+ of crap on every car. Pinstripes, nitrogen in the tires, etc. We were looking at the Outback and a CVR, the dealership experience totally turned us off the Honda.

Same. Wait, aren't you in DFW too? McDavid is a shady place.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Same. Wait, aren't you in DFW too? McDavid is a shady place.

I don't know. McKinney Honda was where we went.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

I don't know. McKinney Honda was where we went.

Okay, sounds like common practice for them, at least locally.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Okay, sounds like common practice for them, at least locally.

Honda seems to be in my rear view mirror permanently, at least as new cars go.

[Mingwan]

The Si sure.

Edit: just saw you’re considering a 13’ or 14’ Si. Never mind. Better off getting an Si with the K20 for the fun factor. Probably could find an immaculate rsx-s for that money as well with a lot of change left over.

[Nkc]

Fiesta ST all day long.