[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Almost all car companies are selling everything they can build. So BMW's lead is either a reflection of its better inventory and usage of chips or its allocation of cars to the US vs. others parts of the world. Or MB's or Audi's position on these two issues.

They were smarter with their chips plus more compelling offerings than their competitors.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Always an excuse why the company continues to do well instead of just admitting that people like their vehicles (….even if people here don't). Their supply chain is affected just as much as everybody else's.

You are obviously one of those people who drink the Kool aid. This article and other indicate that BMW car sales are better than MB and Audi because it had better supply chain.
You are the one making baseless accusations of people not wanting to admit better sales because of larger grilles and fwd etc or better cars. I have shown you facts and I can provide more but people like you who want to make accusations without facts won't care anyways. Obviously chips may not be the only deciding factor but is a huge when when you go into MB and they tell you they don't have any cars to sell and then BMW say what car do you want?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

You are obviously one of those people who drink the Kool aid. This article and other indicate that BMW car sales are better than MB and Audi because it had better supply chain.
You are the one making baseless accusations of people not wanting to admit better sales because of larger grilles and fwd etc or better cars. I have shown you facts and I can provide more but people like you who want to make accusations without facts won't care anyways.

Oh stop with the platitudes.

I was referring to the very explicit responses any time something positive is presented about BMW.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Oh stop with the platitudes.

lol when you have no facts this is your response.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

lol when you have no facts this is your response.

No, I edited my prior post(s) to account for better management of supplies.

When you feel challenged, you start your response(s) out with condescension. Typical online behavior.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

They were smarter with their chips plus more compelling offerings than their competitors.

And luckily for BMW the Spartanburg plant is still running pretty well. Not sure about Audi but I know that MB closed and/or paused production at various plants like Rastatt, Bremen, Sindelfingen and Kecskemet.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

And luckily for BMW the Spartanburg plant is still running pretty well. Not sure about Audi but I know that MB closed and/or paused production at various plants like Rastatt, Bremen, Sindelfingen and Kecskemet.

+1

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

You are obviously one of those people who drink the Kool aid. This article and other indicate that BMW car sales are better than MB and Audi because it had better supply chain.
You are the one making baseless accusations of people not wanting to admit better sales because of larger grilles and fwd etc or better cars. I have shown you facts and I can provide more but people like you who want to make accusations without facts won't care anyways. Obviously chips may not be the only deciding factor but is a huge when when you go into MB and they tell you they don't have any cars to sell and then BMW say what car do you want?

What facts have you shown us really? We all know about the supply issues and BMW's better management of parts but the reality is that the new BMW styling isn't nearly the deterrent that some here seem to portray it as. Since you are big on facts, there's no factual evidence that supports that the new styling is hurting sales. Large automakers primarily target mass consumers not enthusiasts as the internet has hated on Lexus grilles since they came out but Lexus market share has rebounded nicely from 2011 where they were at their low. I can't say with proof that the inclusion of the big grilles in 2011 is the reason they rebounded but we can be fairly confident that it certainly didn't hurt and probably helped.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

What facts have you shown us really? We all know about the supply issues and BMW's better management of parts but the reality is that the new BMW styling isn't nearly the deterrent that some here seem to portray it as. Since you are big on facts, there's no factual evidence that supports that the new styling is hurting sales. Large automakers primarily target mass consumers not enthusiasts as the internet has hated on Lexus grilles since they came out but Lexus market share has rebounded nicely from 2011 where they were at their low. I can't say with proof that the inclusion of the big grilles in 2011 is the reason they rebounded but we can be fairly confident that it certainly didn't hurt and probably helped.

If you can read I said sales are higher because of BMW's better management of supply. unlike some here who want to think the sales are better because of design etc. I have not indicated design hurt sales but the main fact is that because BMW has supply their sales are crushing MB and this was not the case the last few years where sales figures were fairly close when no supply issues and MB.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

If you can read I said sales are higher because of BMW's better management of supply. unlike some here who want to think the sales are better because of design etc. I have not indicated design hurt sales but the main fact is that because BMW has supply their sales are crushing MB and this was not the case the last few years where sales figures were fairly close when no supply issues and MB.

Actually there are layers to the response and you're being purposely disingenuous.

There are people who makes excuses for the company's success, even purporting that people buy cars they don't like and/or don't find particularly appealing. That is the common opinion of many who hate BMW's current design language and we've watched that perspective play out on discussion forums. Supply or not, if people didn't like the cars, they wouldn't be selling (…just like the car lots full of Volvo's and Alfa Romeo's). Never was it insinuated that sales are better because of the design, however, sales certainly aren't worse because of it…….which is what the detractors predicted.

Understand?

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

No, I edited my prior post(s) to account for better management of supplies.

When you feel challenged, you start your response(s) out with condescension. Typical online behavior.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Always an excuse why the company continues to do well instead of just admitting that people like their vehicles (….even if people here don't). Their supply chain is affected just as much as everybody else's.

Really I posted the article about the supply chain and you posted this right after. So you made the mistake of the supply chain than you made a post others who argue that sales may have increased due to better supply chain are...... then you point the figure at me making condescending remarks. wow you are really something.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

Really I posted the article about the supply chain and you posted this right after. So you made the mistake of the supply chain than you made a post others who argue that sales may have increased due to better supply chain are...... then you point the figure at me making condescending remarks. wow you are really something.

Read my post above.

…and yes, you started with the whole "kool-aid" comment instead of having a discussion like an adult.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Actually there are layers to the response and you're being purposely disingenuous.

There are people who makes excuses for the company's success, even purporting that people buy cars they don't like and/or don't find particularly appealing. That is the common opinion of many who hate BMW's current design language and we've watched that perspective play out on discussion forums. Supply or not, if people didn't like the cars, they wouldn't be selling (…just like the car lots full of Volvo's and Alfa Romeo's).

Not liking their current design I will admit to that. that said it is a separate conversation and the supply chain has in this case placed a bigger factor than anything else in the numbers. Enthusiasts may only buy an MB or a BMW but the majority wouldn't care less and buy from whomever has a luxury car in the segment they are looking at. Also we are also dealing with lease ends and guess what when someone lease ends they need a car otherwise no car.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

Not liking their current design I will admit to that. that said it is a separate conversation and the supply chain has in this case placed a bigger factor than anything else in the numbers. Enthusiasts may only buy an MB or a BMW but the majority wouldn't care less and buy from whomever has a luxury car in the segment they are looking at. Also we are also dealing with lease ends and guess what when someone lease ends they need a car otherwise no car.

Yes! That's a point that holds merit, but…..they could always buy used, keep/buy out the car they currently have, etc. Aside from mechanical issues that affect trust in the vehicle operation, nothing forces someone to go out and spend another $60-90k+ on a car in this segment. There's the small percentage that will buy anything with a luxury marque symbol on it, but for the vast majority we buy that which appeals to us. I think we can agree on that.

Porsche has plenty supply of Taycan's and Cayenne's, for example, but those of us who wanted 911's didn't go out and buy from that supply just because it was available. We decided to wait it out, drive what we had and were patient until allocations were available.

Anyway, I think we're partially arguing some similar points [even if slightly tangential], so……


….how about Brady & those Buccaneers?!?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Straight6Dave

BMWYY is a dividend stock so you can't just look at share price to understand how the company is doing. In the last 10 years that dividend has been between 4.5% and nearly 10%.

I swear TSLA has broken people's brains.

Wow dave, you really got triggered over that, and then pulled $TSLA out of nowhere for some reason! (Tesla is the top brand in World thanks to just this kind of attention!)

(1.) I said "one could argue"

(2.) I didn't mention Tesla

(3.) The post wasn't exactly meant to attract investors to my hedge fund

Your assholery aside, you do make a great point ... in isolation. Just for fun let's spitball it out:

* Let's assume a 7% BMW yearly dividend, a flat share price (since it is), & ignore inflation
* Over that 16 years, if you reinvested dividend income, that's ~195% return - pretty good!
* But, of course, BMW comes with some idiosyncratic risk ... so what if you'd invested in something more indexy to spread the risk like Vanguard's Growth index, $VUG?

Well, $VUG's returned ~360% over that similar time period (quick look just for fun, $VUG is ~485% over the last 10 years & $VTI - total stock market - is ~365%

So, sure, BMW investors have done well - that's true! - but it's also true BMW investors would've been better off putting their money in a lower risk Vanguard index fund which has ( and had) much lower risk, i.e., not the idiosyncratic risk of just BMW.


Anyway, one could argue , it's not $TSLA that's broken people's minds, rather Vanguard's index funds did

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yes! That's a point that holds merit, but…..they could always buy used, keep/buy out the car they currently have, etc. Aside from mechanical issues that affect trust in the vehicle operation, nothing forces someone to go out and spend another $60-90k+ on a car in this segment. There's the small percentage that will buy anything with a luxury marque symbol on it, but for the vast majority we buy that which appeals to us. I think we can agree on that.

Porsche has plenty supply of Taycan's and Cayenne's, for example, but those of us who wanted 911's didn't go out and buy from that supply just because it was available. We decided to wait it out, drive what we had and were patient until allocations were available.

Anyway, I think we're partially arguing some similar points [even if slightly tangential], so……


….how about Brady & those Buccaneers?!?

For many whom has a car allowance from company or own a company makes more sense to lease another car than to buy out for tax purposes at least in Canada, not sure if the US is the same.
Porsche is a much flashier car and sometimes not as appropriate for a company car as would a BMW.

[MarlboroM2C]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

These sales threads always amuse me because as enthusiasts we really don't care. The more cars BMW sells and the bigger the company they become, the more they water down their brand heritage.

On paper BMW is not supposed to sell as well as Mercedes, Audi, Lexus etc. A focused automaker producing the "ultimate driving machine" is not supposed to chase volume. But the fact that they do speaks volumes about the priorities of management over the past 15-20 years.

Thank god for the M2.

amen

[Rondi]

I love all bmw designs , and in my opinion their designs are well above the competion, and in sedans and suvs lightyears ahead of Porsche and MB, I am glad bmw sales are up and beating the competition.

[Tacoma]

Audi of America Reports Record Sales in Q2 2021

Mercedes Start the Year 2021 With Worldwide Sales Record

Record Lexus sales Jan- June 2021, +32% year-on-year. Toyota maintains record 6.6% market share

In the first six months 2021, Porsche delivers 31 percent more vehicles

Thus all of BMW's major competitors are having record sales. Since everyone's increasing, the key stat is how are they doing relative to each other - i.e., market share. The only data I've seen here is from GrussGott (post #16) which showed BMW is back to where it was in 2005. Nothing really to brag about.

And I'll also add re ugly designs' impact on sales, I would say the cars with the beaver grilles (the G22 and G8x) represent a very minor, if not negligible, % of BMW sales. The biggest impact to sales increases of all brands is probably SUV's.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

Feel like a broken record at this point but all the complaints on here (Me included) regarding BMW losing their way (FWD / enormous grills / crossovers / insert whatever you miss from 1990-2015 era here ) and how they don't know what they are doing anymore....

well.. BMW is laughing all the way to the bank.

Toyota making boring cars is also laughing all the way to the bank with record sales and maintaining their #1 sales/market share. But that's not really the point.

Speaking as one who think BMW has lost its way, we're talking about how the cars drive, not about sales volume. We know BMW is making cars softer, less road feel, more isolation, etc., because they want to cater to the masses in order to increase sales. With so much effort to appease the masses, we expect BMW to have increased sales.

However, as I stated above, all of BMW's major competitors are also having record sales, including Porsche, so is it really that great of a feat? Porsche has managed to keep their cars exciting and sell in record volumes. It can be done.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Toyota making boring cars is also laughing all the way to the bank with record sales and maintaining their #1 sales/market share. But that's not really the point.

Speaking as one who think BMW has lost its way, we're talking about how the cars drive, not about sales volume. We know BMW is making cars softer, less road feel, more isolation, etc., because they want to cater to the masses in order to increase sales. With so much effort to appease the masses, we expect BMW to have increased sales.

However, as I stated above, all of BMW's major competitors are also having record sales, including Porsche, so is it really that great of a feat? Porsche has managed to keep their cars exciting and sell in record volumes. It can be done.

Porsche is in a niche. They don't have a volume car like a 3/4 series, C Class, etc. The niche exciting car can't keep Porsche afloat. The only reason they are still able to provide said experiences is because they sold out to the SUV market.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Toyota making boring cars is also laughing all the way to the bank with record sales and maintaining their #1 sales/market share. But that's not really the point.

Speaking as one who think BMW has lost its way, we're talking about how the cars drive, not about sales volume. We know BMW is making cars softer, less road feel, more isolation, etc., because they want to cater to the masses in order to increase sales. With so much effort to appease the masses, we expect BMW to have increased sales.

However, as I stated above, all of BMW's major competitors are also having record sales, including Porsche, so is it really that great of a feat? Porsche has managed to keep their cars exciting and sell in record volumes. It can be done.

Is selling more cars in the last few years more than any other luxury manufacturer a great feat? Personally, I'd say so. What say you? no? I would think other manufacturers would have passed them by now with some of the horrendous (IMO) designs coming out of BMW like the FWD sedan gran coupes corollas.

I assume your point is they still lost their ways of the old and even being #1 in most sold luxury cars doesn't mean anything to you. That may be true - but the majority of people would still buy a BMW over a mercedes / audi / lexus according to number of cars sold.

Which brings me back to my point - BMW is laughing all the way to the bank, and making cars that people will buy. That's all they want. They could not careless if I felt their grills were ugly whilst positioned in front of their FWD drivetrain a tranverse mounted engine, but hey I can drink my cappuccino gazing through this panoramic roof though.