[///d]

Originally Posted by Dino GT

I don`t mean to get the thread off topic M5Rick but, what about an F1 driver at the Nürburgring? It`s amazing how quick he catches up to those cars and motorcycles.

Skip to 3:55 to watch the lap, or you can watch from the beginning for some entertainment from an F1 driver.

90% of the people on a track for a trackday have no idea how to drive. Even a club racer will catch and blow by most people on a trackday. But, what I find crazy is seeing how smooth his lines and transitions are even when that wheel is all over the place. It goes to show that being smooth while being fast is not easy, the car is fighting you every step of the way.

Would be a lot of fun to try and tail an F1 driver though. It would be really interesting to see what lines they take.

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by eleven11

When Richard Hammond drove an F1 car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

First thing I thought of! That is when I went from "Well I think I could do it if I tried enough" to "Oh, you really do have to start cart racing at 14 and build up to F1 to even get around the track huh."

I think, once momentum was gained and driving at like 20% of the cars capability (or frankly even less) I could set like a 5 minute lap at Leguna Seca.

[andrewmr]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Yes.


But your definition of drive and mine are probably different.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by andrewmr

Yes.


But your definition of drive and mine are probably different.

How so?

[andrewmr]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

How so?

Ok...... Are you saying drive an F1 car, as in get it into Q2? If so, then I'll change my answer from yes to no. And then we need to clarify what a Normal Joe is.

There really isn't a place/opportunity for a normal Joe to drive (race) an F1 car. It's not like a Porsche Cup car that can be raced in many different series.

As such, I see the only real place to drive (race) an F1 car is at vintage events, or similar type programs.

I suspect that anyone that has gone down the path of acquiring an old F1 car, and the time and expense in maintaining one, has devoted the time required to drive it. Not saying he (or she) will ever be able to get all of the performance available out of it (they won't), but I think they could race it outside of F1.

The physical aspect is training, and pretty much anyone that is devoted can achieve what is needed.

The skill, which I suspect is where your question is based, is another thing altogether.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by andrewmr

Ok...... Are you saying drive an F1 car, as in get it into Q2? If so, then I'll change my answer from yes to no. And then we need to clarify what a Normal Joe is.

There really isn't a place/opportunity for a normal Joe to drive (race) an F1 car. It's not like a Porsche Cup car that can be raced in many different series.

As such, I see the only real place to drive (race) an F1 car is at vintage events, or similar type programs.

I suspect that anyone that has gone down the path of acquiring an old F1 car, and the time and expense in maintaining one, has devoted the time required to drive it. Not saying he (or she) will ever be able to get all of the performance available out of it (they won't), but I think they could race it outside of F1.

The physical aspect is training, and pretty much anyone that is devoted can achieve what is needed.

The skill, which I suspect is where your question is based, is another thing altogether.

I was meaning for anyone with a driving licence to sit in an F1 car and of course after some tuition start driving it but naturally not at the top level performance and with the softest tyres.

[andrewmr]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I was meaning for anyone with a driving licence to sit in an F1 car and of course after some tuition start driving it but naturally not at the top level performance and with the softest tyres.

Hey Rick,

I know this is an old post... but I was looking for something and this came up in a search. I didn't know you had replied to my comment.


I wouldn't think there are any normal Joe's holding a Super License.


Peace,
Mike

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by andrewmr

Hey Rick,

I know this is an old post... but I was looking for something and this came up in a search. I didn't know you had replied to my comment.


I wouldn't think there are any normal Joe's holding a Super License.


Peace,
Mike

Very unlikely

[JimmyJazz]

NFL receiver reflexes vs F1 driver reflexes.
https://youtube.com/shorts/du0A6MYOy0c?feature=share

[DrFerry]

I drove an F1 car, but I had to work up to it though by seat time in a 911 GT3 Cup Car, then a Formula Renault, then the 1997 F1 Arrows. The year was 2004 and the circuit was the Circuit-de-Catalunya in Barcelona, Spain. I had been working as a professional test-driver for the big French tire maker for tin-top street cars and tires, but not formula car work. Anyway, I got the chance to drive an F1 car so I did...

The experience was intense and that's putting it very mildly. The sound, the vibration, the G-Forces, the intensity of the shifting, the massive braking, accelerating and cornering forces of a full aero car were simply off the charts intense. I made a bunch of notes about the experience which I have squirreled away somewhere. I'll try to find them if your interested.

The question the O.P. asks is a good one - M5Rick - and the answer is; IF the normal average joe is driving the F1 car and using the downforce and brakes - even at 50% - then his seat time won't be very long, because the physical demands are very, very high due to the massive G-Forces involved.

The first time I really nailed the brakes from high speed (once I had had some heat in the carbon rotors) the safety harness chased most of the air out of my lungs due to the compressive forces under late braking. At 2.0G your head weights twice as much as normal, so does your entire body, and so does your helmet which ends up banging against the cockpit cowling... I probably only "used" about 60% to 70% of the F1 car's capabilities and I was running on wets on a dry track to make the slides (if any) a bit more forgiving.

It was huge fun and exhilarating, but yes the average Joe can drive an F1 car. The next questions are: For how long and how well?
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[M-technik-3]

My thoughts too, and how old is said average Joe. Depending on age you might have second thoughts of how much speed to carry, is your life insurance paid blah blah. Would I do it at 56 probably not but heck I probably would. I'd suck but I'd be able to say I did.

If I was 21 fresh out of karting and still in great shape I'd love it because the fear factor would be less.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

I drove an F1 car, but I had to work up to it though by seat time in a 911 GT3 Cup Car, then a Formula Renault, then the 1997 F1 Arrows. The year was 2004 and the circuit was the Circuit-de-Catalunya in Barcelona, Spain. I had been working as a professional test-driver for the big French tire maker for tin-top street cars and tires, but not formula car work. Anyway, I got the chance to drive an F1 car so I did...

That's an amazing experience leading up to the F1 drive, thanks for sharing it with us DrFerry !

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

That's an amazing experience leading up to the F1 drive, thanks for sharing it with us DrFerry !

Thanks.. didn't mean to kill the thread..

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Thanks.. didn't mean to kill the thread..

You built the thread up my friend

[Marcoose]

It goes to show how even the ‘worst’ F1 driver is still a great driver.

And adds to my hypothesis that at the top level, it’s 99% car/team, 1% driver. They’re all very good drivers. Pretty much any of them with a good car and team that fits their style can win. Conversely, at the club level, it’s 99% the driver.

Thanks for sharing that wonderful experience, Doc. I’m super jealous.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

It goes to show how even the ‘worst’ F1 driver is still a great driver.

And adds to my hypothesis that at the top level, it’s 99% car/team, 1% driver. They’re all very good drivers. Pretty much any of them with a good car and team that fits their style can win. Conversely, at the club level, it’s 99% the driver.

Thanks for sharing that wonderful experience, Doc. I’m super jealous.

You're welcome. I managed to find some old videos about the event and believe me these videos are olde and grainy (15 years old) but they show some more details about what the experience was like.

I agree at the club level it's 99% driver - though money does help when it comes to being able to afford the best equipment. By this I mean even a wealthy driver with no talent or skills, quite often still drives slow in a fast car. The "Gentlemen drivers" so to speak.. think SVRA.. It stands for Some Very Rich Americans.. instead of the Sportscar Vintage Racing Association..
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[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Thanks.. didn't mean to kill the thread..

Best post in the thread!! TY! Enjoyed reading about the experience.

[DrFerry]

The beginning part of this video explains the massive braking forces involved (when driving an F1 car) I was talking about in my earlier post above. What I didn't say was, as the car decelerates, and aerodynamic load deceases, the driver has to start lifting off the brakes in order to avoid locking up the fronts. So the art of braking an F1 car is a bit counter intuitive - since aero forces vary as speed varies. At the start of braking, huge braking pressure can be applied, but then as the speed decreases, aero forces decrease, and so grip decreases. Anyway, that's a nuance the average person (normal Joe) would have to learn and get used to.
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[Artemis]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

It was huge fun and exhilarating, but yes the average Joe can drive an F1 car. The next questions are: For how long and how well?

Quite striking were the images of the F1 drivers after the 'Miami heat' of the 2022 Miami F1 race: they were all knackered.

Verstappen:
"It was a physically tough race; I think I must have lost around 3 kgs."

Martin Brundle:
"It's a long time since I've seen these super-fit and perfectly prepared F1 drivers look so battered after a 94-minute race.
I know that horrible post-race feeling well, where your core is so hot and continues to well up, you're missing a lot of fluid, and every organ, muscle, and tendon is complaining heavily in its demand for essential ingredients.
You just can't get away from your own body as the pain builds and the adrenaline fades. I felt for Max Verstappen sitting on the buggy post-race with the camera zoomed in, I'm sure he just wanted to lie down, roll around, and groan a bit.
Occasionally after two hours in the humidity of Singapore they look pretty wrecked, but the grip level of the track and low degradation tyres, and therefore the relentless pace, was tough. There's always an airless nature racing against the walls of a street circuit, and inside the cockpit can be 50+ degrees [Celsius] as the aerodynamicists never want to waste much air and drag on the driver, who are then wrapped in multiple layers of clothing, gloves, helmets, boots, balaclava.
The FIA has insisted recently drivers wear no jewellery or watches, and do wear fireproof underpants, or no underpants just fireproof leggings, which presumably they consider 'low hanging fruit' in the search for incremental safety. Frankly, if your underpants are on fire you've got much bigger issues, and when you step over the side of these cars you've mentally already done a great deal of management as to how much risk you're prepared to take.
I believe a lot of the clumsy contact we saw towards the end of the race was due to overheating drivers, which can make you feel light-headed and your judgement fades a little."

From our 'armchairs', we can witness the 'entertainment' of cars lapping tracks, shouting some commands to our screens, but without the faintest idea what the forces are that those F1 drivers are processing at that time as regards focus and physicality. Their cockpits are a daunting 'work space' challenging body and mind - with the intimidation of cameras, 'expert' commentators and viewers worldwide watching and scrutinizing all their moves up close. Yes, these elite drivers are paid top dollar for their performances, but it's a very demanding dog-eat-dog environment where they must give their level best time and time again if they want to remain relevant enough to preserve and keep funding their seats.
(source: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...stery-persists)

[G30M]

Can they? Yes some will be able to drive it for a bit.

Will they crash? Only a matter of time. Too many things to get right. Probably won't ever get the tires within temperature window to get grip. These cars rely on aero to make everything work. F1 cars with no aero probably more people can drive it. Eg an open top radical you can go slowly.

[DrFerry]

He's not a "normal Joe" but it is his first time...
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[Dan B]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

...It was huge fun and exhilarating, but yes the average Joe can drive an F1 car. The next questions are: For how long and how well?

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I would have to say you are not the "average Joe".

I would say the average driver would be hard pressed to even get the car rolling without stalling it.

If they did manage to get it rolling I would expect 1 of 3 outcomes.

1. Putter around the course until they stall the car or it overheats.
2. Actually get the car moving fast enough to get air over the radiators but spit in and stall it.
3. Panic and go WOT and crash.