[Winn.Nguyen]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

^Drives a DCT


^drives a manual.

Ask us how we all know.

More like, doesn't know how to drive a manual.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Onesie

Very limited in power if modified, compared to the S55.

I think it's a pretty rare person that wants to push the S55 into territory that the N55 can't go. We talk about it a lot on this forum because it's an enthusiast hang-out, but it's really rare. A FBO N55 is plenty for the platform, but yeah, the S55 changes prep it to be a monster if someone chooses that direction.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Onesie

X4 does not have the same engine as the M2. One is a B58, the other an N55.

I agree with the sentiment that, if you feel you don't want the S55, the N55 will be better.
More reliable, less complex, better fuel consumption, MUCH better exhaust sound.
Very limited in power if modified, compared to the S55.

Manual should be the only gearbox available, or purchased.

Here we go again. The F26 X4M40i shared the OG M2 engine. Look it up.

[Ricochet48]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

MT's are not a dying breed, whomever told you that was an idiot.

They're not dying, they're essentially dead, just Google it... First result: "Over just the last 10 years the percentage of new cars sold with manual transmissions declined from 3.4% in 2010 to just 1.4% by 2020. Worse yet, MotorTrend lists only 17 models offering a manual transmission among the 2021 model year selections."

Autos have caught up and surpassed sticks in every way but driver engagement (although they've gotten better with DCT & the ZF8, etc.). I am the last remaining one of my friends to drive a stick (<2800lb modified RSX-S). 90% of my driving these days is in the city where it's tough to justifying rowing through the gears. My track days are more fun of course, but I'm rarely there... The ZF8 in the B58TU powered G42 should be fine for my next purchase (which somehow gets better mileage than my 2L 200hp Honda engine).

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Ricochet48

They're not dying blah ditty blah blah blah...

Keep your auto, I'll keep my manual.

[Ricochet48]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

Keep your auto, I'll keep my manual.

I don't have an auto, only owned manuals for the last ~15 years. My next one will be auto though as they've improved tremendously performance, efficiency, and engagement.

You can keep your manual too, but that doesn't change the market. Facts are facts. If you want to "save the manuals", buy a new one... but your options are extremely limited these days.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Ricochet48

I don't have an auto, only owned manuals for the last ~15 years. My next one will be auto though as they've improved tremendously performance, efficiency, and engagement.

You can keep your manual too, but that doesn't change the market. Facts are facts. If you want to "save the manuals", buy a new one... but your options are extremely limited these days.

There will always be those guys that want more driver involvement.

I'm going to say that again.

There will always be those guys that want more driver involvement.

And to that end, they will get what they want.

Same with ICE cars, you'll be dead long before they are gone completely.

Always remember that America worships the past, and we'll have it, one way or the other.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Ricochet48

I don't have an auto, only owned manuals for the last ~15 years. My next one will be auto though as they've improved tremendously performance, efficiency, and engagement.

You can keep your manual too, but that doesn't change the market. Facts are facts. If you want to "save the manuals", buy a new one... but your options are extremely limited these days.

But good options they are: 400Z; Porsche 718 Spyder; hell even the MX5 miata

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

But good options they are

Funny, I totally read that in a Yoda voice.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Funny, I totally read that in a Yoda voice.

Me too. lol

[TAZ007]

re-watching clone wars so in practice.

[Germanauto]

OP you'll really just have to drive both and see for yourself. As you stated there is a significant price difference. You'll have to see if the M2C's revisions are worth the $10k+ difference.

I've driven the M2C a few times and loved it overall. I prefer the ZCP's styling and interior upgrades to the OG model. But if the cars felt similar enough to drive I'd still save $10k and get the OG M2.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Ricochet48

They're not dying, they're essentially dead, just Google it... First result: "Over just the last 10 years the percentage of new cars sold with manual transmissions declined from 3.4% in 2010 to just 1.4% by 2020. Worse yet, MotorTrend lists only 17 models offering a manual transmission among the 2021 model year selections."

Autos have caught up and surpassed sticks in every way but driver engagement (although they've gotten better with DCT & the ZF8, etc.). I am the last remaining one of my friends to drive a stick (<2800lb modified RSX-S). 90% of my driving these days is in the city where it's tough to justifying rowing through the gears. My track days are more fun of course, but I'm rarely there... The ZF8 in the B58TU powered G42 should be fine for my next purchase (which somehow gets better mileage than my 2L 200hp Honda engine).

You haven't said anything false, but it depends on the model too. Some cars still have significant manual take rates, e.g. the 911 GT3, Miata, and M2. I'd imagine certain Mustang and Challenger variants as well.

I've never owned an MT so have no preference. In fact when I'm hitting canyon roads, I prefer having paddles at my disposal that way I can always have both hands on the wheel which gives me more focus. Would love to experience an MT car on such roads however, my perspective may change.

[JovSRB]

nice

[Ricochet48]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

There will always be those guys that want more driver involvement.

100% Agree.

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

And to that end, they will get what they want.

This is the doubtful part in my eyes though. Companies exist to make money, if the manual take rate is at 1% now and dips even lower, there will be very, very few options. As others noted, the Z, Miata, Twins, Integra, 718, M cars, Emira, etc. will/still have it, but for how long? I was devastated when the Supra didn't come with a manual, shocked at the Corvette, and pissed when Audi got rid of ALL standard transmissions.

Niche markets exist, but without economies of scale, they will either get very expensive very fast or just disappear all together.

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

Same with ICE cars, you'll be dead long before they are gone completely.

I agree they won't be gone completely for many, many years, but will make up the majority of NEW car sales soon based on regulations. Sure you'll have a dude driving around is his old 6MT Miata on the weekends, but he likely daily drives an EV. They will be the exception, rather than the norm. Most of my mid 30s friends are getting either hybrids or EVs, a bit shocking to me as many used to be car enthusiasts. Gas is over $4.5/gal here, instant acceleration is enticing, and charging stations are more abundant.

[BallHog5873]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

You haven't said anything false, but it depends on the model too. Some cars still have significant manual take rates, e.g. the 911 GT3, Miata, and M2. I'd imagine certain Mustang and Challenger variants as well.

I've never owned an MT so have no preference. In fact when I'm hitting canyon roads, I prefer having paddles at my disposal that way I can always have both hands on the wheel which gives me more focus. Would love to experience an MT car on such roads however, my perspective may change.

Yeah that's how I was too, but I recently switched to a manual m2 and its' been a fun experience. Changing the gears yourself on a canyon road is another level than using the paddle shifters. And I usually don't find myself changing gears on turns so taking a hand off the wheel for a moment hasn't been an issue.
Although I do miss the DCT when I'm stuck in traffic.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by BallHog5873

Yeah that's how I was too, but I recently switched to a manual m2 and its' been a fun experience. Changing the gears yourself on a canyon road is another level than using the paddle shifters. And I usually don't find myself changing gears on turns so taking a hand off the wheel for a moment hasn't been an issue.
Although I do miss the DCT when I'm stuck in traffic.

Good point, we never shift in turns anyway. I rue the day when I'd have to drive a heavy EV with no gears through these roads. Shifting even with an auto adds so much to the experience. I'm no pro driver, I know it slows me down, but it makes the experience so much more fulfilling.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

The fact you get a actual real M engine in the Comp it's a no brainer for me to pick the N55 M2. You pay M prices for M stuff.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

The fact you get a actual real M engine in the Comp it's a no brainer for me to pick the N55 M2. You pay M prices for M stuff.

Let’s be honest here. The N55 in the M2 is unlike any other N55 in any other BMWs. It has several upgrades from the S55 engine. The M2 is a real M car and did come with an M price.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by DanG

Let’s be honest here. The N55 in the M2 is unlike any other N55 in any other BMWs. It has several upgrades from the S55 engine. The M2 is a real M car and did come with an M price.

Actually, it was little cheaper than the M235i track edition at the time but it is/was more of an M than the M2## cars.

People just don't get M cars are more than HP/TRQ numbers and S engines and seats and mirrors, etc.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Onesie

...
I'm a suspect owning the N55, albeit an older version. It just sounds great, especially compared to the S55.

I think a lot of the OG M2 sound preference is related to what the exhaust brings to the sound.

To tell the truth they all sound nice in their own way...

N55 - burbles and pops
S55 - sounds angry
B58 - has this nice low rumble (not sure if that's the right word) but the engine sound in my X6 is similar in quality to the M3C I drove at Monticello.

[Moflow]

I love my M2 Competition, but i'd have more trouble justifying it in today's market. "Not a real M-car" seems like a pretty eye-roll worthy statement about the OG M2, i'd say most of what makes my car special comes down to the chassis, which is basically the same between OG and Comp. Yes, i like the extra revs and the extra power, but the price delta right now is pretty big and unlike a couple of years ago, you're not getting a brand new car when you splurge for the Competition model.