[M_Six]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Add audio/visual and home automation to the list.

That's a biggie. And primarily why I'm interested in pursuing this.

[gtr2M3]

Originally Posted by wdb

Updated, thanks all.

• speed
• PoE
• speed
• security
• speed
• full duplex
• speed
• WIFI backhaul
• speed
• future proofing
• speed

You forgot these 3

Reliability
Reliability
Reliability

[stevenc]

Mine is in my laundry room. My cable comes into my laundry room, through my cable modem and then i send it through cat 5e to my living room where my router sits next to the TV. I then send the router wired signal back to the laundry room through second Cat 5e where it goes into a switch in the laundry room and splits off to all the rooms. I do this because i don't want my wireless router broadcasting from inside a data cabinet inside a laundry room. This way i get great wireless signal and range from the living room with all the guts hidden in the laundry room data cabinet.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Add audio/visual and home automation to the list.

They're there. Speed handles A/V. Home automation necessarily involves WiFi; hence the need for wired backhaul.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by gtr2M3

You forgot these 3

Reliability
Reliability
Reliability

Okay I guess? My WIFI isn't unreliable. It just isn't my preferred route.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by wdb

They're there. Speed handles A/V. Home automation necessarily involves WiFi; hence the need for wired backhaul.

Some home automation systems have to be hard wired particularly the ones that deal with A/V systems and whole house distribution.

A/V isn't the same as speed. When I say A/V, there are extenders for connections such as HDMI that utilize category cabling. Having the cabling in place eliminates issues with the distance issues with HDMI cables and provides a ton of flexibility. I'm stuck at my vacation home due to yielding to decisions of my ex wife. The location of where I keep my A/V stack is not in an area where I can run any cabling. Wireless HDMI solutions which support both 4K and HDR is prohibitively expensive. The only choice for wireless HDMI is pro gear that costs $3k for the system. All the cheaper wireless HDMI solutions support 4k but not HDR due to the bandwidth requirements.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Some home automation systems have to be hard wired particularly the ones that deal with A/V systems and whole house distribution.

A/V isn't the same as speed. When I say A/V, there are extenders for connections such as HDMI that utilize category cabling. Having the cabling in place eliminates issues with the distance issues with HDMI cables and provides a ton of flexibility. I'm stuck at my vacation home due to yielding to decisions of my ex wife. The location of where I keep my A/V stack is not in an area where I can run any cabling. Wireless HDMI solutions which support both 4K and HDR is prohibitively expensive. The only choice for wireless HDMI is pro gear that costs $3k for the system. All the cheaper wireless HDMI solutions support 4k but not HDR due to the bandwidth requirements.

Can I replace "speed" with "future proofing" in my "it's there" claim?

But yes I hear you. I went through a dilemma with HDMI cable length when I was laying out our modest system a few years ago. I did eventually find a cable that worked, mostly because I redesigned the layout to shorten the run. That saved me from having to use HDMI<->ethernet adapters.

[ryan stewart]

Especially with the fact they constantly find a way to add more capacity for those short runs using slight modifications in the terminations and the technology at the end of those terminations.

[Maestro]

Not sure I can add more to this, other than glad to see others are doing what have done the last 25 yrs. I had always had hardwired networking in my houses. The other issue was I had to do it after they were built so fishing cables through the walls was as a pain, luckily I had access to a basement and attic to run cables. As everyone pointed out I did it for speed and reliability, WiFi even today is not 100% and always has dead zones and various other issues as the tech had evolved. Today Wifi in my house is only for cell phones and tables everything else is hardwired.

I have central point in my basement were all my cables terminate in a structure wiring panel. I all had all the equipment there except the wireless router which is on the first floor so it covered most of the house. However during covid and both us working from home and for some reason the power company kept having problems with brown outs it force me to put the cable modem and wireless router in the home office next to the computer and other equipment and have it all powered by a UPS. This way when the power went off we could still be online and not have to spend 15 minutes brings everything back online after the power turned off.

We are building a new home, our retirement home and it will be all hardwired with WiFi access points. I am planning a central UPS for all the networking and computer equipment. I am also going to put in POE lights and Cameras.

[ryan stewart]

Even having the skill to cut in almost everywhere (how I paid my way through college) every new build I ever occupy is going to have a mile of smurf tube in the walls, even if I do it myself (lowvo doesnt require the same inspections as 120)

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by wdb

Can I replace "speed" with "future proofing" in my "it's there" claim?

But yes I hear you. I went through a dilemma with HDMI cable length when I was laying out our modest system a few years ago. I did eventually find a cable that worked, mostly because I redesigned the layout to shorten the run. That saved me from having to use HDMI<->ethernet adapters.

Yes, you could replace speed with future proofing. But sometimes that could mean being able to support faster Ethernet speeds.

My dilemma is where I have my A/V stack is in the middle of my living space up against the kitchen island. The TV against my better judgement and upon insistence of the ex wife was placed above the fireplace. Because my A/V stack in in the middle of the floor space, I can't run cables to it at all. HDMI cabling to that location if I had pre-run them would be prohibitively long. Which leaves the use of category cabling. But that's also a problem. The issue is I don't know if my builder would have accommodated that request even if I paid them a premium to do it. My vacation home is built on top of a concrete slab. So all the plumbing/propane gas lines had to be pre-run before the concrete was poured. The HVAC ducts are in the ceiling because of this.

Originally Posted by Maestro

Not sure I can add more to this, other than glad to see others are doing what have done the last 25 yrs. I had always had hardwired networking in my houses. The other issue was I had to do it after they were built so fishing cables through the walls was as a pain, luckily I had access to a basement and attic to run cables. As everyone pointed out I did it for speed and reliability, WiFi even today is not 100% and always has dead zones and various other issues as the tech had evolved. Today Wifi in my house is only for cell phones and tables everything else is hardwired.

I have central point in my basement were all my cables terminate in a structure wiring panel. I all had all the equipment there except the wireless router which is on the first floor so it covered most of the house. However during covid and both us working from home and for some reason the power company kept having problems with brown outs it force me to put the cable modem and wireless router in the home office next to the computer and other equipment and have it all powered by a UPS. This way when the power went off we could still be online and not have to spend 15 minutes brings everything back online after the power turned off.

We are building a new home, our retirement home and it will be all hardwired with WiFi access points. I am planning a central UPS for all the networking and computer equipment. I am also going to put in POE lights and Cameras.

WiFi can be pretty reliable along with performance. I've never had any issues with getting a consistent 400-500 Mbps throughput on my wireless network while other devices are also connected. The trick is I'm using a unified wireless AP system. I have three APs I'm using; one on each floor of my house. All three are being managed by a centralized controller.

But you are wise to wire your future retirement home for wireless APs. That's something people don't think about as most APs are meant to be ceiling mounted due to the antenna configuration/RF dispersion. And you can have the network drop for the AP at the exact location where you get the best coverage for where you have the most concentration of wireless devices.

You're lucky you're still able to get Internet service through your provider when you have a power outage. I've experienced power outages where even my cable service went out. Didn't matter if my equipment was still up and running. In addition to a UPS, you may want to consider having a hook up put in for a portable generator which will power only specific outlets. I'm thinking about putting one in for my vacation home. Just have to be careful to have a cut off put in to ensure the power feed from the power company is cut off when you're on generator power. I have a 20kW whole house generator for my primary home with an automatic transfer switch.

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

Even having the skill to cut in almost everywhere (how I paid my way through college) every new build I ever occupy is going to have a mile of smurf tube in the walls, even if I do it myself (lowvo doesnt require the same inspections as 120)

You may or may not be able to do it depending on the builder and the local permitting rules. Each builder will allow certain things for the homeowner to do themselves while others will not allow anything at all. Even the builder itself, if it's large, will have different rules depending on which region we're talking about. Both of my current homes were built by Ryan Homes. The group for Ryan Home that built my primary home allowed home owners to do some things such as running low voltage wiring. The group that built my vacation home did not allow home owners to do anything. I heard that the locality where my vacation home was built required permitting of even low voltage wiring. Also the house was being advertised as an Energy Star home. They did not want me to do something which will cause the house to fail final certification which would be a blower door test.

[ryan stewart]

Yeah, thankfully my locals aren't that bad. And if the builders are dicks I'll just do what I've done before for people, when we roll up after hours to clean (that way they don't put drywall over old McDonald's, I've seen that in multimillion $ homes) we sneak it in. Spec out a few so they do those and then come in with the same stuff, fix what they did shitty, and copy it.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

The trick is I'm using a unified wireless AP system. I have three APs I'm using; one on each floor of my house. All three are being managed by a centralized controller.

TP-Link?

Originally Posted by zx10guy

You're lucky you're still able to get Internet service through your provider when you have a power outage. I've experienced power outages where even my cable service went out. Didn't matter if my equipment was still up and running.

That's the way it is here. I'm picturing the CMTS sitting in some little brick building somewhere not far from here, with its own little battery backup. We'll continue to have cable for about 2 hours during a power outage then it goes away. I keep a DSL line for backup; even though it is abysmally slow it never goes down. Gotta love the old Ma Bell system.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by wdb

TP-Link?

Aruba Networks. Their 7008 controller along with two AP 225s and a AP 325. Planning on upgrading the two AP 225s to AP 325s at some point.

That's the way it is here. I'm picturing the CMTS sitting in some little brick building somewhere not far from here, with its own little battery backup. We'll continue to have cable for about 2 hours during a power outage then it goes away. I keep a DSL line for backup; even though it is abysmally slow it never goes down. Gotta love the old Ma Bell system.

Yep. Good ol' POTS lines. When I had that outage with my cable service during the power outage, my phone still worked as I still had Verizon land line service; didn't have DSL anymore however. I've since ditched the land line so if needed, I'll use my cell phone's mobile hotspot if necessary.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Do you have a main patch panel somewhere? If so, where? Does it necessarily have to be in the same room as the modem/router? I'm considering having my house retro-wired (if I can use that term) with CAT6. But my home office is already pretty crowded with gear and I'd like to have a small rack with a patch panel put elsewhere in the house.

Yes. When I built our home 4 years ago, I made sure all rooms had Cat 6 access. The main control panel is located inside our Laundry room behind a metal panel.

[wdb]

Thought I'd provide an update as I am almost finished updating the WiFi here. I previously had 4 separate access points -- two floors inside the house, the garage, and an outdoor unit. They were different technologies so it wasn't possible to simply give them all the same SSIDs. I went with TP-Link Omada bits and I am quite pleased with the result. I also saved A LOT OF money versus a 4-unit consumer mesh WiFi. The pre-existing ethernet cables made the job easier, although I did run a couple of new lines.

I put some words and pictures in an album for those who might be curious: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hshqt1Cp3nFKXf7D8

[KevinC]

Ah, good old-fashioned access points, a great solution when it's practical, which is more often than utilized. I was selling a ton of this gear 15+ years ago into big warehousing/retail environments. It's nothing new but still an excellent solution.

[M_Six]

My MoCA system really saved my butt. It's working awesome now that all the nodes have Ethernet backhaul and all my Apple TVs are wired. I'm going to run some coax to the shed and install another wifi node to see if I can extend my wifi out to the edge of my yard. It's sort of there now, but weak. Before I leave my driveway, my phone switches to LTE.

[M_Six]

New node is in the shed and now I have decent wifi in the yard and out to the end of the driveway. MoCA rocks.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by wdb

Thought I'd provide an update as I am almost finished updating the WiFi here. I previously had 4 separate access points -- two floors inside the house, the garage, and an outdoor unit. They were different technologies so it wasn't possible to simply give them all the same SSIDs. I went with TP-Link Omada bits and I am quite pleased with the result. I also saved A LOT OF money versus a 4-unit consumer mesh WiFi. The pre-existing ethernet cables made the job easier, although I did run a couple of new lines.

I put some words and pictures in an album for those who might be curious: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hshqt1Cp3nFKXf7D8

Haven't heard of this system and don't know the details as to how it operates. But from my initial look, it appears to be a cloud managed wireless system. Many SMB type companies are in this space. Meraki (owned by Cisco), the lower end Aruba Networks, Aerohive, and Ubiquiti to name a few. Ubiquiti is the main go to company for many home network enthusiasts as their equipment is quite mature as they've been at this for years. Plus their equipment is pretty reasonably priced.

I prefer not to depend on anything cloud and prefer to actually own my own equipment. This is why I have a physical on premise wireless LAN controller system. There are other alternatives which gives much the same functions as a physical wireless LAN controller but without the cost. These systems use a virtual controller construct where one of the APs functions as the central controller for the cluster. If the master fails, the secondary (if configured) or through a master promotion election process will step in to take control over the overall system. Aruba Networks has such a system called their InstantAP or IAP.

Originally Posted by KevinC

Ah, good old-fashioned access points, a great solution when it's practical, which is more often than utilized. I was selling a ton of this gear 15+ years ago into big warehousing/retail environments. It's nothing new but still an excellent solution.

The use of good old-fashioned is a bit misleading as this is the preferred topology to deploy a wireless network. Even in modern days with large wireless environments that need to support thousands of wireless clients. I keep telling people there's no excuse not to use a unified wireless system these days with how there are so many solutions that make having one in any home so easy. No one should ever be using an collection of independent access points or repeater/boosters at all; especially repeaters/boosters. These devices are the absolute worst thing you can introduce into any wireless network.

[gtr2M3]

It warms my heart to be amongst people who understand that wifi, network and internet are different things

When people say “I have no wifi” meaning internet, it sends shivers up my spine and makes me cry inside

[wdb]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Haven't heard of this system and don't know the details as to how it operates. But from my initial look, it appears to be a cloud managed wireless system. Many SMB type companies are in this space. Meraki (owned by Cisco), the lower end Aruba Networks, Aerohive, and Ubiquiti to name a few. Ubiquiti is the main go to company for many home network enthusiasts as their equipment is quite mature as they've been at this for years. Plus their equipment is pretty reasonably priced.

I prefer not to depend on anything cloud and prefer to actually own my own equipment. This is why I have a physical on premise wireless LAN controller system. There are other alternatives which gives much the same functions as a physical wireless LAN controller but without the cost. These systems use a virtual controller construct where one of the APs functions as the central controller for the cluster. If the master fails, the secondary (if configured) or through a master promotion election process will step in to take control over the overall system. Aruba Networks has such a system called their InstantAP or IAP.

I have an OC200 hardware controller. https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-...troller/oc200/

TP-Link competes against Ubiquiti and that ilk. I found it to be more accessible and cheaper than the others. They're rapidly adding more hardware, and constantly improving the software and integration. That said there are little glitches to work around, all of them easy. The company is also buying out consumer class vendors so you'll see their name in that space too.

No one should ever be using an collection of independent access points or repeater/boosters at all; especially repeaters/boosters. These devices are the absolute worst thing you can introduce into any wireless network.

A buddy of mine recently opened up an AirBnB rental. He has some sort of little Google thingies scattered around so that he has WiFi signal. I offered to fix it for him. ;-)