[DavesZupra4]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

What the bloody hell are you talking about? Reading all of your posts...you seriously need some help.

Ugh nothing disgusts me more than weirdos going through my post history to dig out some post so they can insult.

Like you have nothing better to do than check my post history because you got upset at my post, hoping to find some posts of mine that put you off so you can feel vindicated thinking badly of me so you feel better about yourself and forget about the fact that youre literally LOOKING THROUGH MY POST HISTORY, ans have the audacity to claim "you need help".

I'd never look through your post history because that's childish, and also because you're irrelevant. But since you look through mine, guess I'm relevant 😉😘

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by DavesZupra4

Ugh nothing disgusts me more than weirdos going through my post history to dig out some post so they can insult.

Like you have nothing better to do than check my post history because you got upset at my post, hoping to find some posts of mine that put you off so you can feel vindicated thinking badly of me so you feel better about yourself and forget about the fact that youre literally LOOKING THROUGH MY POST HISTORY, ans have the audacity to claim "you need help".

I'd never look through your post history because that's childish, and also because you're irrelevant. But since you look through mine, guess I'm relevant 😉😘

Check your profile page and you can see I've never looked at your post history. I'm referring to the crazy posts I see almost daily from you...hard to not see them. Anyway, crazy be crazy.

[DavesZupra4]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Check your profile page and you can see I've never looked at your post history. I'm referring to the crazy posts I see almost daily from you...hard to not see them. Anyway, crazy be crazy.

bla bla bla your opinions are so irrelavant. anytime someone trys to be self righteous and throw out judgements and insults, all i see is nothing but inexperience, and insecurity, and conformity as well

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by DavesZupra4

bla bla bla your opinions are so irrelavant. anytime someone trys to be self righteous and throw out judgements and insults, all i see is nothing but inexperience, and insecurity, and conformity as well

Cool beans. Again, you make no sense. Anywho...

[Rob_G77]

I really liked my X6 40i. It wasn't top of the line in terms of powertrain, but it scratched every other itch I had for luxury. There's just something about the X5/X6 that is just so much nicer than any BMW sedan, even the 8 series convertible I am driving now. And I generally don't like SUV's, but I DO like the X5/X6. Moreso the X6 because it's a bit more unique.

Pricing is just through the roof lately and interest rates are sky high. There's almost nothing attractive about BMW prices, even leases. 5 and 8 series are absolute depreciation holes if you buy new. My next BMW will be another X6 probably.. If I can get rid of my 8. I've never been so stuck in a 'car' deal before. Oh but that's another story....

Rob

[Tacoma]

Worldwide sales ranking in 2022 (in units):

BMW 5 Series = 299,822
MB E Class = 262,581
Audi A6 = 184,482
Tesla Model S = 85,753

So, within the mid-sized luxury sedan market, the 5-Series not only sells, but they were #1 last year.

[10"]

uh this has been the norm for years—-only the past 2 years do things “not sell”—looks like we are heading back to normal days where cars sit for over a year on lots even.

[TheMaxXHD]

Depends on the target market, which as others have already stated, makes this question difficult to answer.

The US market favors SUVs in particular, which significantly hurts the 5 series sedan more than any other series. That and the fact that 3 series sedan is almost the size of a 5 series sedan, it makes it a tough sell at that price.

The 5 series sedan in the US market gets smashed in from all sides from the rest of BMWs lineup, which serve their respective buyers frankly better than the 5 series sedan. The X5 is way more car for the money compared to a 540i. So you really have to want a sedan to swing for it.

Don't get me wrong, the 5 series sedan still sells, it just doesn't sell as well, and depreciates harder because of it. It is a hard sell in the US. The 3 series sedan in the US is suffering a similar fate to the X3 stealing volume, though not to the same lengths due to cheaper price of the 330i (compared to 530i) and M340i (compared to 540i) allowing for a bigger market capture.

Hence the 3 series does not suffer (particularly the M340i, which has a performance edge over the 540i for cheaper, somewhat harder to get allocations for, and is otherwise a great value in that price range) the same amount of depreciation as the 5 series equivalents.

[Rob_G77]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Don't get me wrong, the 5 series sedan still sells, it just doesn't sell as well, and depreciates harder because of it. It is a hard sell in the US. The 3 series sedan in the US is suffering a similar fate to the X3 stealing volume, though not to the same lengths due to cheaper price of the 330i (compared to 530i) and M340i (compared to 540i) allowing for a bigger market capture.

It's also coming down to price. IX SUV are not selling because nobody wants to pay the high asking prices. Then there's the I4 M50 Sedan which is maybe the best BMW bargain and the waiting list for one is long.

Rob

[Mavus]

Because people need wagons to buy shit at Costco and Home Depot but there aren’t many wagon choces for nicer models so they end up buying suvs. Add to that body sizes and you end up with round people in oversized vehicles with huge boxes.

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by Mavus

Because people need wagons to buy shit at Costco and Home Depot but there aren’t many wagon choces for nicer models so they end up buying suvs. Add to that body sizes and you end up with round people in oversized vehicles with huge boxes.

Wagons weren't and still aren't popular in the US. Which is a shame because that's why we don't have the touring models. SUVs reign supreme, for a wide variety of reasons. Too many reasons to really dissect here effectively.

Crossovers have sorta filled the gap wagons fill. They are bigger than wagons but smaller than your full size SUV, and are popular.

My suspicion is this is part a manufacturing decision, as SUVs and crossovers are usually built off a shared chassis and share many components. Wagons likewise typically share a chassis and components from a sedan.

Since SUVs are more popular than sedans here, it is more financially efficient to build crossovers for those that need less car than an SUV but more car than a sedan, than to build wagons. Allows volume to be more easily soaked up with one class of vehicles sharing a platform and components than over two.

[jmxtrem]

Originally Posted by zachdog

BMW has a ridiculous catalog right now. It used to be pretty simple:

3-series was small 2 or 4 doors
5 was regular size 4 doors
7 was large 4 doors
Z was a convertible
X was SUV

Now we have 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 in a mix/mashup of 2/4 doors plus seven X varieties and three electrics.

The 5-series is now in no-man’s land. People who want a 4-door car buy a 3. Most buy an X. Those with large garages and wallets buy a 7.

Too much X's

more man sedans

[SteveinArizona]

I reluctantly bought a 5 series as it was the only way I could get a BMW with the feature set I wanted. I prefer a small car with performance and luxury. To get the latter, BMW makes you go up in size.

I recently traded in my 2018 530e for a Genesis GV60 (they call it an SUV but it is really a raised hatch). Small outside but large inside. 429 HP (483 if you push the boost button on the steering wheel), nappa leather, ultrasuede headliner, soft plastic at the bottom of the doors where BMW puts hard plastic, full ADAS suite, 17 speaker 1400 watt Bang & Olafsen sound system, electronic LSD, easy entry/easy exit, etc. Yes...it is an EV. And, unlike the I4, it doesn't have a bugs bunny grille.

I love the way BMW vehicles handle. I just wish the designs were as good as the vehicles.

BMW won't sell a package like that for the I4. No doubt it will be an option on the I5 when that comes out but, again, that is a bigger vehicle than I want. About the only other company that will sell a small, performance, luxury vehicle is Porsche.

[Ximian]

SUVs have more practical benefits than wagon. The only area where a wagon is better than the equivalent SUV is handling, which is something most people don't car about.

For the part of the US that sees snow, the ground clearance is necessary to avoid damaging your bumpers and avoiding getting stuck.

The other part is that an SUV is much easier to get into and the health issues people develop with age makes that necessary. Bad knees or bad back? It'll be painful getting into a sedan or buckling kids into car seats. SUVs are like vans (e.g. Toyota Sienna, Ford F150), just slightly less shameful.

[Vivek.]

I've daily driven various 5ers more than any other vehicle, swapped for an X5 a little over a year ago. First reason is space and AWD which is invaluable for ski trips. Second is ground clearance, even with the X5 I get dangerously close to piled up snow/ice on the ground.

The positioning of the 5er splits the market between the ones who may go for an X vs the ones who may go for an M340i. With the 340 you can get the 'top of the line' (below the ///M) for far less than the M550i, which appeals to the 'nothing but the best will do' attitude many buyers hold. With an X3/5 you get a car that's much better at doing SAV things at the cost of handling.

The real tragedy here, which has always been the case for the 5-series, is that looking at it on paper doesn't portray the full practicality or driving experience of the car. The X and 3-series buyers don't realize what they're missing.

[Snakevenom]

Big boring and ugly

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Wagons weren't and still aren't popular in the US. Which is a shame because that's why we don't have the touring models. SUVs reign supreme, for a wide variety of reasons. Too many reasons to really dissect here effectively.

Crossovers have sorta filled the gap wagons fill. They are bigger than wagons but smaller than your full size SUV, and are popular.

My suspicion is this is part a manufacturing decision, as SUVs and crossovers are usually built off a shared chassis and share many components. Wagons likewise typically share a chassis and components from a sedan.

Since SUVs are more popular than sedans here, it is more financially efficient to build crossovers for those that need less car than an SUV but more car than a sedan, than to build wagons. Allows volume to be more easily soaked up with one class of vehicles sharing a platform and components than over two.

many xovers have less room in the rear and trunk than comparable wagon. I consider them the worst car design - limited utility and horrid handling but folks seem to like that.

I do get that some folks need basic raised car due to health issues and that’s fine.

[ASAP]

the middle size sedan is about one of the dumbest vehicles anyone can buy... its interior dimensions are nearly identical to a 3 series with a larger exterior size and weight penalty...

a better decision is a midsize SUV with far more rear seat space such as an X3 or the ultimate X5... which it appears by sales numbers in the USA is exactly what people are doing

the only place in my mind a 5 series makes sense these days is if you want an M5 as you can't cheat higher center of gravity driving dynamics

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Mavus

many xovers have less room in the rear and trunk than comparable wagon. I consider them the worst car design - limited utility and horrid handling but folks seem to like that.

the whole of the US disagrees with you...

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

I've daily driven various 5ers more than any other vehicle, swapped for an X5 a little over a year ago. First reason is space and AWD which is invaluable for ski trips. Second is ground clearance, even with the X5 I get dangerously close to piled up snow/ice on the ground.

The positioning of the 5er splits the market between the ones who may go for an X vs the ones who may go for an M340i. With the 340 you can get the 'top of the line' (below the ///M) for far less than the M550i, which appeals to the 'nothing but the best will do' attitude many buyers hold. With an X3/5 you get a car that's much better at doing SAV things at the cost of handling.

The real tragedy here, which has always been the case for the 5-series, is that looking at it on paper doesn't portray the full practicality or driving experience of the car. The X and 3-series buyers don't realize what they're missing.

you are correct... except which non M5 5 series buyer cares about ANY of that?

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by ASAP

the whole of the US disagrees with you...

Well most yes not all but that’s my point. One of my good friends just bought 2017 540i to replace his e60 530 wagon but really wanted 540i wagon and another friend bought e60 535i wagon as his fam car.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by ASAP

the whole of the US disagrees with you...

Majority isn’t usually right