[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by matowi

That’s too bad. Hydrogen would allow us to drop the literal burden of lugging around hundreds of kilograms of batteries…

The real issue with hydrogen is that the safer forms of it as a fuel are very energy intensive to make. So it's a net gain emissions wise to just burn gas in the engine instead of trying to package hydrogen and then use it as a propulsion fuel.

If we had a large amount of nuclear power, that'd change ge the game of course, but all the fools of the world have been sold on wind and solar saving the world, despite how unrealistic it is.

[James_G0540i]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I would agree, even go a little stronger and say there is zero chance of a hydrogen vehicle. I personally think that FCEV's are the way to go and likely where we will end up but we are many, many years away from that as far as I can tell.

I agree that FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles) is the "likely" direction, but they still require Hydrogen fuel. The good thing about these is they can be filled-up quickly like a gas tank, so once the infrastructure makes it out there there shouldn't be any long queues like tosses waiting hours at charging stations....

I think Hydrogen will be similar to LPG gas in the 1990s which was a third of the price of gas/petrol at the time, although I dont think Hydrogen will be that cheaper than gas. My first car was a LPG converted Ford Falcon in 1991. There used to be 1 or 2 pumps at most gas stations and there were never queues or issues finding a station with LPG as it was used extensively for commercial vehicles and Taxis, similar to Diesel.

There's already a few companies here in Oz beginning to produce large volumes of Hydrogen to get ahead of the game, and some fueling places already have it. In fact we started producing it and exporting it to Japan in 2022.
So when Toyota and hopefully BMW start selling these FCEVs there will already be a small network around the country to support them.

I think there is still a place for EVs, for people who want to travel no more than 50-100km per day - no problem. But for trips where people want to tow a boat/caravans and for long distance drives, FCEVs will be the answer.

[Guy Fleegman]

My prediction is BMW will continue in its quest to remove buttons and other analog controls to increase profitability. The steering column will be removed to make the display even bigger. Steering will be controlled with a trackball on the center console. Turn signals will be gesture controlled.

[AbleDanger]

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

My prediction is BMW will continue in its quest to remove buttons and other analog controls to increase profitability. The steering column will be removed to make the display even bigger. Steering will be controlled with a trackball on the center console. Turn signals will be gesture controlled.

Had me going for a minute. Sadly, I think the first line will be true. I am hoping they start to swing back from massive screen in lieu of buttons, and at least, for the love of all that is sacred, remove the tacky <<<<<X5>>>>> crap from the dash.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The real issue with hydrogen is that the safer forms of it as a fuel are very energy intensive to make. So it's a net gain emissions wise to just burn gas in the engine instead of trying to package hydrogen and then use it as a propulsion fuel.

If we had a large amount of nuclear power, that'd change ge the game of course, but all the fools of the world have been sold on wind and solar saving the world, despite how unrealistic it is.

You get it.

[jad03060]

People have not been actively searching for white hydrogen until recently. There was a recent VERY significant find of white hydrogen in Europe, and others are now looking into other potential sources and how to capture and utilize it. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/...eposit-france/

Most all of the currently available H2 is expensive to make, and often has some greenhouse gas side effects.

[TurtleBoy]

Hyundai announced they will be increasing their investment in Hydrogen and Hydrogen producing methods: "To produce hydrogen, the company will focus on Waste-to-Hydrogen methods, which involves fermenting organic waste, such as food and livestock manure, to produce biogas. The biogas is then treated to capture CO2 and produce hydrogen. Another method, Plastic-to-Hydrogen, will use waste plastic that is nonrecyclable – first it is melted, the turned into gas, then transformed into hydrogen after stripping away unessential elements."

https://electrek.co/2024/01/09/hyund...e-that-happen/

[starlights]

Solid state batteries should be out by then. Quantum Scape is already testing them with VW

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by starlights

Solid state batteries should be out by then. Quantum Scape is already testing them with VW

Will solid state batteries be a game changer? I think I read a while back that they will be lighter and charge faster, is this correct?

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by James_G0540i

I agree that FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles) is the "likely" direction, but they still require Hydrogen fuel. The good thing about these is they can be filled-up quickly like a gas tank, so once the infrastructure makes it out there there shouldn't be any long queues like tosses waiting hours at charging stations....

I think Hydrogen will be similar to LPG gas in the 1990s which was a third of the price of gas/petrol at the time, although I dont think Hydrogen will be that cheaper than gas. My first car was a LPG converted Ford Falcon in 1991. There used to be 1 or 2 pumps at most gas stations and there were never queues or issues finding a station with LPG as it was used extensively for commercial vehicles and Taxis, similar to Diesel.

There's already a few companies here in Oz beginning to produce large volumes of Hydrogen to get ahead of the game, and some fueling places already have it. In fact we started producing it and exporting it to Japan in 2022.
So when Toyota and hopefully BMW start selling these FCEVs there will already be a small network around the country to support them.

I think there is still a place for EVs, for people who want to travel no more than 50-100km per day - no problem. But for trips where people want to tow a boat/caravans and for long distance drives, FCEVs will be the answer.

Maybe in the future. Or maybe in some countries. Sure

The current state of H2 FCEV is very bad even in California. I have two close friends lease the Toyota Miria, they came with $15K H2 filling credit. Sounded all good. But in reality, the H2 filling station is few and far in between. If EV gives range anxiety, H2 is real range issue. You basically cannot go anywhere far. The way Toyota handles this is by providing loaner for weekends for Miria owner.

Filling isn't as fast as gas for sure, not even close. And many times, the nozzle got frozen stuck to the car, we have to wait another 5-10minutes to unplug. Experienced H2 user will have a dry towel, standing next to the filling port, wipe down the moisture while filling. And the cost, when they started, each kg of H2 was like $15-18. Now, it is $40. A full fill take about 5kg, going about 280 miles. So once they are done with that H2 credit, they will stop using the car. Cannot afford $0.7/miles even if infrastructure is ready.

Other than the inconvient and high cost of operation, Miria is a suprising good/luxury car tho.

Edit: H2 pricing is reduced a bit this week, it is $36 per kg. Each fill up is about 4.5kg for 280miles. Tank capacity is 5kg, but you really cannot cut too close.

[jad03060]

SS batteries tend to be able to be recharged faster, last longer, weigh less, and hold more charge per volume. They're harder to make reliably, but that is being worked out.

Prospectors have not really been looking for white hydrogen (high concentrations of relatively pure hydrogen), but a huge field was recently discovered in France. The thinking now is that there may be lots more of this elemental hydrogen in various deposits around the world. Much better than trying to extract it from hydrocarbons, or hydrolysis. With excess solar or wind power and water, though, you could extract hydrogen almost anywhere.

SS batteries will significantly help the EV market once they perfect their production.

[Ledwinka]

With all the things going on with the X5 50e, leaning heavily towards the G65 version.
In the same light, something to update....

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/ne...shaped-lights/

https://www.autonews.com/retail/bmw-...-2023-us-sales

(From the AN Article)
BMW's fourth-generation X3 crossover will arrive in U.S. stores this year and features the brand's upsized signature kidney grille and slimmer LED lights.
The dealer said that because of the beefy makeover, the model "doesn't look like a compact SUV anymore."

Meanwhile, the redesigned X5 wears a "mean" look, the dealer said. "The headlights were probably the coolest thing I've seen," they said, referring to a new X-shaped headlight assembly design that integrates the daytime running lights.

[sharkymcpeterson]

Reading all this and knowing what I know about the interior of the m60 I feel like model year 2023 might have been the apex of the g05, and the x5 as a model.

[JeffL0]

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

My prediction is BMW will continue in its quest to remove buttons and other analog controls to increase profitability...

The move to make everything controlled through systems like iDrive is two fold, both with profit as the driver. The first, is eliminating many of the mechanical controls reduces production costs, but the second, more insideous is the allure (for them, not us) of subscription models.

Moving controls from mechanical to electrical makes software enablement via subscription that much easier. I can easily see a move to make many of the iDrive features subscription-based.

[BeEmVee]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

That is the current plan, no V8 in the G65/G66 only in the G95/G96. Would imagine those will be a PHEV with a V8 same as the M5 and XM.

I don’t understand the mass adoption of PHEV across more model lines. What if people don’t have a good charging solution at home? What if they park on the street or in a shared lot? I don’t believe our infrastructure is there to have so many PHEVs compared to standard hybrid setups. And when dealers tell a customer that they don’t need to plug in their vehicle and the motor will charge it adequately, that’s a bunch of bologna.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BeEmVee

I don’t understand the mass adoption of PHEV across more model lines. What if people don’t have a good charging solution at home? What if they park on the street or in a shared lot? I don’t believe our infrastructure is there to have so many PHEVs compared to standard hybrid setups. And when dealers tell a customer that they don’t need to plug in their vehicle and the motor will charge it adequately, that’s a bunch of bologna.

Not only are they popular but they need to sell as many PHEV's, and EV's for that matter, to meet the CAFE standards. BMW is still making ICE versions for those who do not want/can't use a PHEV.

[blockhead25]

As cars shift to the universal (Tesla) charger, they will become more popular and a balance between dependency on all electric a having the best of both worlds. Charging at home is a problem, especially for renters…but I suspect adequate charging options will approve dramatically in the next 5 years. With that said, seems like BMW needs to make PHEV’s that actually work

[Aussiejem]

I wonder what "X" design daytime running lights will look like on the G65. Intriguing

[KendoGuy]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

BMW teased up with the S68 engine shared between the LCI X5M and X5 M60.

I could have sworn I heard that the S68 V8 was going to carry over as well for the G65 M60i.

TurtleBoy do you have strong confirmation that the S68 won't be in the G65 M60i?

I'm <pinching fingers> this close to ordering a 2025 G05 M60i because I want the V8, but I despise the lack of physical climate controls - living in the Southern United States, I use these all the time, especially when initially cooling off the interior, as well as if I want to reduce the ambient (full-force) blower noise in the cabin when taking a phone call. I absolutely do not want to be fiddling with a screen while driving.

I was hoping (praying) that BMW would do like Porsche and Volkswagen, realizing the safety issues (and stupidity) of removing physical controls, and backtrack and put them back in the car. Heck, even Lucid Air, ultra-tech-everything, has physical climate control buttons as an alternative to in-screen options.

I'm super frustrated because the X5 M60i is ideal in many ways, and I don't want to be forced up to the new Cayenne S paying Porsche an extra $40k just for buttons. I hate that they're missing so much though that I just might, it bothers me that much.

The best thing that could happen IMO is that the EU comes down hard on auto manufacturers for the obvious hypocrisy of not allowing mobile phones while driving yet still having a massive mobile screen as the primary control function for things you readily access while driving. EU laws forcing redundant physical controls would then automatically manifest in the U.S. market because no manufacturer wants to have to build separate designs.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by KendoGuy

I could have sworn I heard that the S68 V8 was going to carry over as well for the G65 M60i.

TurtleBoy do you have strong confirmation that the S68 won't be in the G65 M60i?.

Welcome to the forum. Everything I have seen so far shows that there will be no V8 for the G65. The top model will be the M60e which will be the PHEV drivetrain used in the M760e.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Welcome to the forum. Everything I have seen so far shows that there will be no V8 for the G65. The top model will be the M60e which will be the PHEV drivetrain used in the M760e.

BMW Blog reported that the V8 will carry over for the G65, but not for all markets and is expected for the US, as BMW has to be aware that EV acceptance is waining in the US. Telsa announced 0.99% financing for the Model Y this past week.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

BMW Blog reported that the V8 will carry over for the G65, but not for all markets and is expected for the US, as BMW has to be aware that EV acceptance is waining in the US. Telsa announced 0.99% financing for the Model Y this past week.

I guess we will see. Things could have changed or, has happened a number of times in the past, they are reporting incorrect information.

It would seem odd for them to have the M60i and the M60e. As we have seen with other series the V8 was dropped and the PHEV is the top model. Perhaps their market research showed the X5 should be different and they changed their plans.

EV acceptance has no bearing on the situation, the iX5 will have two models for the G65.