[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

False, EV's do go the shop less often than ICE, BUT their per visit cost is way higher than ICE and the repair network is horrible compared to ICE. Hertz found this out the hard way.

To be fair, the problem for Hertz is primarily a Tesla problem. Tesla doesn’t have a very good parts operation nor do they have a good repair operation either. So Hertz wasn’t given fleet discount on repair parts nor did they have an easy ability to order the parts from Tesla to do their own repairs.

Another issue they had is Tesla kept dropping the price of their cars aggressively which forced Hertz to mark down the value of its cars on its books based on GAAP rules. Forcing them to have heavier than anticipated losses.

Established brands who have along automotive experience like BMW wouldn’t cause them the same problems with their EVs. BMW EVs aren’t as headline grabbing as Tesla though…

[crashoverride]

No one factors in all the military subsidized costs the US incurs in ensuring the safe passage of oil bearing ships.

EV's will never compare to the environmental damage that Exxon Valdez, the uncontrolled oil spill in the the gulf and the literally thousands of other environmental tragedies that has come with our pursuit of oil.
Nor the slaughter and wars in central America to build oil pipelines.

Automotive dealerships are having committees and councils in attempting to plan for the future were revenues evaporates in light of the reduced visits to the service department.

The whole blocking of chargers is just so laughable. Like WHY..?? No one is forcing you to ever buy an electric truck blocking does nothing other than inconvenient a stranger. It's like blocking a fuel pump with a horse.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by SpaceSilver.X1

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NdsYoZjHNRM

Not singling you out, you just happened to post the picture.

Let's play Devil's advocate.

How do we know it's an i7 and not a regular 7 series ICE?

If it is an i7, how did the fire get here, aren't the batteries under the driver and passengers?

[crashoverride]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Not singling you out, you just happened to post the picture.

Let's play Devil's advocate.

How do we know it's an i7 and not a regular 7 series ICE?

If it is an i7, how did the fire get here, aren't the batteries under the driver and passengers?

Lol... Good catch. It appears that whole YouTube channel is a dumpster fire

[Berliner]

What a ridiculous thread!
From what I can see this vehicle doesn't have the i-badge on the grill nor the blue ring around the BMW logo so it's NOT the i7 but rather a 740i or 760i ICE car.

And it's CLEARLY not anywhere near the battery department, even if it was an EV.
There is something burning besides the car, probably rests of the material used for the arson attack.

The EV hate is so boring.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

BMW's existing dealer network will help them, but sales have a way to go to catch Tesla. Tesla having to generate a repair station network from scratch will not fly with traditional buyers. Techies and Greenies who had to have EV will tolerate subpar service, regular buyers comparing to ICE experience will not.

That’s all conjecture.

The point is the issues you pointed out about Hertz aren’t broadly applicable to EVs in general. They are teething issues of them dealing with an upstart automaker versus an established one.

Tesla is able to get away with a less defined dealership network not because buyers don’t care about service quality if they drive an EV. It is due to EVs needing a lot less service so they can make do with less.

On an ICE car you’re servicing them as frequently as every 3 months or 3K miles depending on brand. An EV can easily go 100K miles or more before it needs anything more than tire rotations and brake fluid.

But I get you. Some buyers will really miss their frequent visits to their dealership service department.

They used to view the as stealerships and hated them, but now they can’t wait to visit them again.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

False, as evidenced by EV sales hitting the wall. Visit youtube or message boards on how happy Tesla owners experience with service is.

False that you’re in love with visiting the dealership service department and seeing how much they want to charge you today?

If you’re trying to say false to BMW EV maintenance requirements. Here it is from BMW.

That’s pretty much no maintenance…

But maybe your EV hate is mostly due to being a service advisor and you’re worried you’ll be lonely?

Via: https://www.bmwofschererville.com/se...v-maintenance/

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by co_440i

The US market will never be "filled with cheap Chinese EVs." We don't even permit the import of Chinese cell phones, we're never going to let mobile PLA SIGINT platforms drive around American streets.

Are you living under a rock? Where did you get this asinine idea?

“…While the vast majority of the global iPhone 15 stock will still come from China…”
https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/12/2...y-launch-china Just one of many articles a quick Google search yields.

Not to mention all of the U.S. land China is buying up. https://americanmind.org/memo/this-l...beijings-land/

I have a friend who is an automotive electrical engineer and he was working for a company that was working with a Chinese company on battery technology. They finally ended the contract because of the blatant ways the Chinese were working to steal their proprietary technology. He was in China for this project and he left with a very low opinion of the Chinese.

[co_440i]

Apple is an American company, home slice. We don’t allow CHINESE phones, like ZTE, Huawei, etc.

Originally Posted by co_440i

The US market will never be "filled with cheap Chinese EVs." We don't even permit the import of Chinese cell phones, we're never going to let mobile PLA SIGINT platforms drive around American streets.

Are you living under a rock? Where did you get this asinine idea?

“…While the vast majority of the global iPhone 15 stock will still come from China…”
https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/12/23869727/apple-iphone-15-india-production-supply-launch-china" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="https://www.theverge...unch-china</a> Just one of many articles a quick Google search yields.

Not to mention all of the U.S. land China is buying up. https://americanmind.org/memo/this-land-is-beijings-land/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="https://americanmind...ings-land/</a>

I have a friend who is an automotive electrical engineer and he was working for a company that was working with a Chinese company on battery technology. They finally ended the contract because of the blatant ways the Chinese were working to steal their proprietary technology. He was in China for this project and he left with a very low opinion of the Chinese.

[SteVTEC]

There's lots of smoke and mirrors around BEV's (and other things), and either you can see through that and you're on one side, or you can't and you're on the other. Most people have very little mental agility no matter how book smart they may be, so not much point in arguing.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

There's lots of smoke and mirrors around BEV's (and other things), and either you can see through that and you're on one side, or you can't and you're on the other. Most people have very little mental agility no matter how book smart they may be, so not much point in arguing.

Eh, doesn't have to be one side or the other. I think that happens but it's unfortunate.

They work for some people (probably more people than people realize), but they don't work for everyone. Price is a thing, new and used. Long term cost of fuel vs electrons is a thing. What one has access to for charging. How often you actually tow or take a road trip. Your weather. The ability to get an EV repaired if you have an issue. Reliability of a product that's both new and established at the same time.

It's a complicated subject, there's no right or wrong. Some people should own them, some should not. Government can push a little but most would agree push less than they are right now. Anyone with a firm side that can only see the good or the bad is certainly fooling themselves.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Government can push a little but most would agree push less than they are right now.

Not picking on you just a good question.
What is the right amount of Government push?
A billion? A trillion?
How about the CAFE standards adding thousands of dollar to the price of a non EV's? (Carbon Credits)

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Not picking on you just a good question.
What is the right amount of Government push?
A billion? A trillion?
How about the CAFE standards adding thousands of dollar to the price of a non EV's? (Carbon Credits)

Yeah good question. And no problem, also reminds me that I replied to SteVTEC but wasn't trying to single them out either.

A nudge in a particular direction, very slightly tilting the playing field might be OK. If (and only if) a vast majority of evidence and analysis says that it's the right way to go. But not too quickly, or we see the issues that come up. All issues are solvable eventually, and even if nothing changes we'll get through it and emerge on the other side. But with 100's of millions of people, perhaps billions when including other countries, with varying needs for cars and uses, varying abilities to buy cars, and so on I would agree we're going too quickly. The issues are coming up a little faster than it seems fair for people to deal with. What the right speed is though, I don't know.

[Car-Addicted]

One major battery break through will cause a lot of people and companies to lose a lot of money. Current EV's are likely to be the buggy whips of the 2020's.

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

One major battery break through will cause a lot of people and companies to lose a lot of money. Current EV's are likely to be the buggy whips of the 2020's.

my great-great-grandfather was the owner of a huge men's hat manufacturer. At one point, his factory was making almost 700,000 hats each year. Strangely, they never made women's hats.

As my great-grandfather told me when I was a kid, more than 99% of men wore hats everywhere back then.(pre-1900) Just like horses and buggy whips, hats disappeared from everyday life. (no, baseball caps don't count)

[crashoverride]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

One major battery break through will cause a lot of people and companies to lose a lot of money. Current EV's are likely to be the buggy whips of the 2020's.

Such over the top scare mongering.

As they say in auto sales there is always a butt for every seat.

There is no battery breakthrough that will have drivable cars going to the wrecking yards. Nor losing a people a "LOT" of money. Businesses will learn improve and pivot.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by crashoverride

Such over the top scare mongering.

What fear mongering? If cheaper solid state batteries or similar technology that offered double the mileage and half the charge time with no issue with fires, your current crop of EV's will be paper weights. I guess you can buy on the dip.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Eh, doesn't have to be one side or the other. I think that happens but it's unfortunate.

They work for some people (probably more people than people realize), but they don't work for everyone. Price is a thing, new and used. Long term cost of fuel vs electrons is a thing. What one has access to for charging. How often you actually tow or take a road trip. Your weather. The ability to get an EV repaired if you have an issue. Reliability of a product that's both new and established at the same time.

It's a complicated subject, there's no right or wrong. Some people should own them, some should not. Government can push a little but most would agree push less than they are right now. Anyone with a firm side that can only see the good or the bad is certainly fooling themselves.

I actually agree with this completely. My "smoke and mirrors" angle was more about government/politician/industry hype, promises, and propaganda, and then mandates based on all of that, vs. reality.

I see right through that and it really irks me, but as for the cars themselves, I actually like EV's and think they're pretty cool. I have no problem with them existing or even being a "thing". If there was one that suited my needs I'd consider one.