[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by IanH

Speeding being dangerous is drawn from a false correlation to drivers who are incompetent also speeding when they cause accidents, and the severity of those accidents being greater when speeds are higher.

While that is true, most people do not understand how differently their vehicles behave at higher speeds and the distance traveled. disparity of speed is also a challenge.

Speeding tickets are primarily a way for localities and states to drive revenue.

Not true at all. I have done my own, intensive research on this. Overwhelmingly, traffic enforcement is revenue negative. It costs more in dollars that it generates in revenue. This revenue argument is a way for people to justify speeding in their own minds.

That said, my conditions for not speeding are quite stringent. Driving in any kind of density (housing or vehicle) usually has me pinned at or near the limit.

Driving on a back road with no other cars around, in good weather and properly equipped vehicle. I'm using a radar detector to prevent becoming a source of revenue.

Also towns around me have started instituting "city wide" 25mph limits, even on roads that were design for traffic to be flowing at 45mph. They do this to make money and because homeowners who purchased houses on main roads want to pretend that they live on a cul-de-sac.

As stated, your revenue argument is generally 100% false. There may be small towns in podunk town that have no other revenue, but it is not a universal truth.

[CLTMDA]

Not sure I can totally agree with the above unless I saw all of the data. Generating revenue is certainly a driver (excuse the pun), but to factor in all of the costs of traffic enforcement ignores that much of the cost is a fixed cost and speeding tickets (all tickets) are an offset to fixed costs and usually not meant to totally support said activity. Traffic enforcement is but a small part of an officer's duty and job description. Adding all of the revenue from speeding tickets in a small jurisdiction could support the addition of an additional officer or support person. I also believe though that an indirect result of "revenue quotas" is to discourage the unwanted activity and can help to produce the overall goal, increased safety.

That said, I got rid of my radar detector long ago as I generally will not go more than 10mph over. The person normally in my passenger seat tends to get a bit testy if I do and it's just not worth the argument about "flow of traffic".

[erickonphoenix]

When I was commuting between New Orleans and Houston I got into the RD game pretty serious. Valentine 1, police scanner, and a few other tools. I tested out the early Escort Redline and Uniden sent me a couple of early R series to review. The R7 is about the best out there but don't get complacent as it can fall asleep on you.

My commute is congested city freeways now so I've slowed down. For road trips, I still keep a V1 hardwired at the headliner but Waze is far and away the best countermeasure today.

These timeless tips help as well.
Know your route.
Keep a faster car (rabbit) ahead of you.
Watch for brake lights in traffic ahead.
Be careful cresting hills or blind curves.
Slow down entering smaller towns.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by IanH

Speeding being dangerous is drawn from a false correlation to drivers who are incompetent also speeding when they cause accidents, and the severity of those accidents being greater when speeds are higher.

Speeding tickets are primarily a way for localities and states to drive revenue.

That said, my conditions for not speeding are quite stringent. Driving in any kind of density (housing or vehicle) usually has me pinned at or near the limit.

Driving on a back road with no other cars around, in good weather and properly equipped vehicle. I'm using a radar detector to prevent becoming a source of revenue.

Also towns around me have started instituting "city wide" 25mph limits, even on roads that were design for traffic to be flowing at 45mph. They do this to make money and because homeowners who purchased houses on main roads want to pretend that they live on a cul-de-sac.

On your last point, it was not about generating revenue but rather directive from the US DOT. Sometime in the mid 2010's a study came out regarding the pedestrian survival rate of collisions with cars. It was determined the survivability of the pedestrian increased drastically at speeds at or below 25 MPH. The US DOT mandated Federal road funding tied to in-town speed zones changed to 25 MPH.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by erickonphoenix

When I was commuting between New Orleans and Houston I got into the RD game pretty serious. Valentine 1, police scanner, and a few other tools. I tested out the early Escort Redline and Uniden sent me a couple of early R series to review. The R7 is about the best out there but don't get complacent as it can fall asleep on you.

My commute is congested city freeways now so I've slowed down. For road trips, I still keep a V1 hardwired at the headliner but Waze is far and away the best countermeasure today.

These timeless tips help as well.
Know your route.
Keep a faster car (rabbit) ahead of you.
Watch for brake lights in traffic ahead.
Be careful cresting hills or blind curves.
Slow down entering smaller towns.

Out where I drive on open rural dual highways I used to be the (BMW) Rabbit. Annoying as shit because the Trailers would trail too close, leaving them no time or distance in the case the Rabbit (me) encountered a deer. My method for Trailers, just for fun, was to abruptly change lanes and drop anchor at full anti-lock. To see the Trailer panic with a WTF look on their face was just fucking priceless. 🤣🤣🤣

[IanH]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

On your last point, it was not about generating revenue but rather directive from the US DOT. Sometime in the mid 2010's a study came out regarding the pedestrian survival rate of collisions with cars. It was determined the survivability of the pedestrian increased drastically at speeds at or below 25 MPH. The US DOT mandated Federal road funding tied to in-town speed zones changed to 25 MPH.

I'm not talking about in town 25mph designation. The cities and towns around me do it for the entirety of every road within the city borders.

Traffic enforcement is 100% a revenue game. I'm not rationalizing. I've seen it in action and I also know cops who have told me that it is revenue based.

There's plenty of evidence online and videos talking about how traffic laws are designed to allow an officer to pull you over for basically any reason they want.

Don't get me wrong, it SHOULD be about safety, but it clearly is not, at least where I live.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by IanH

I'm not talking about in town 25mph designation. The cities and towns around me do it for the entirety of every road within the city borders.

Traffic enforcement is 100% a revenue game. I'm not rationalizing. I've seen it in action and I also know cops who have told me that it is revenue based.

There's plenty of evidence online and videos talking about how traffic laws are designed to allow an officer to pull you over for basically any reason they want.

Don't get me wrong, it SHOULD be about safety, but it clearly is not, at least where I live.

I wasn't disagreeing about your revenue point, I 100% agree it's a revenue game. I live out in the country where there is no traffic. I've been pulled over for speeding when there is absolutely zero traffic around. It's not for safety, it's about revenue. What's not safe is going 10 MPH over and being the Rabbit and some m'effer is sitting at your 8 o'clock blind spot when Bambi decides to eff with you. For some reason dumbasses like to drive in clumps, like it's the fastest four NASCAR drivers with 3 laps to go. Just stupid.

My point about the DOT was just to clarify. The reason pedestrians get hit is because laws have been passed that give them right-of-way over 4,000-pound automobiles. Laws enacted by people who don't understand physics.

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by CLTMDA

Not sure I can totally agree with the above unless I saw all of the data. Generating revenue is certainly a driver (excuse the pun), but to factor in all of the costs of traffic enforcement ignores that much of the cost is a fixed cost and speeding tickets (all tickets) are an offset to fixed costs and usually not meant to totally support said activity. Traffic enforcement is but a small part of an officer's duty and job description. Adding all of the revenue from speeding tickets in a small jurisdiction could support the addition of an additional officer or support person. I also believe though that an indirect result of "revenue quotas" is to discourage the unwanted activity and can help to produce the overall goal, increased safety.

That said, I got rid of my radar detector long ago as I generally will not go more than 10mph over. The person normally in my passenger seat tends to get a bit testy if I do and it's just not worth the argument about "flow of traffic".

Keep in mind many tickets are dismissed, reduced fines, deferred, etc. It several large cities I reviewed, all court revenue amounted from .05% to 5% of all jurisdictional revenue. That means code enforcement, fire department, law enforcement, etc. Court funds also go directly to the general fund for the city, etc. The cost to hire, train, pay, add benefits and equip even a dedicated traffic officer is easily well over $100k.

[smrtypants44]

I have a passport max360c- the gps filtering really makes a difference on the daily commute. Also passport has a dash cam you can mount to the radar detector that uses the same power source so thats handy.

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by IanH

Traffic enforcement is 100% a revenue game. I'm not rationalizing. I've seen it in action and I also know cops who have told me that it is revenue based.

That is flat out not true except for perhaps the smallest, poorest towns. This claim is made by people who want to rationalize their behavior. If it is textbook child ego state.

There's plenty of evidence online and videos talking about how traffic laws are designed to allow an officer to pull you over for basically any reason they want.

No, there isn't "evidence", there are anecdotal stories and partial truths. The laws are not "designed" to allow LE to pull you over, but most people cannot drive a mile without breaking a traffic law.

Don't get me wrong, it SHOULD be about safety, but it clearly is not, at least where I live.

Nope and nope.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

That is flat out not true except for perhaps the smallest, poorest towns. This claim is made by people who want to rationalize their behavior. If it is textbook child ego state.

No, there isn't "evidence", there are anecdotal stories and partial truths. The laws are not "designed" to allow LE to pull you over, but most people cannot drive a mile without breaking a traffic law.

Nope and nope.

You a cop?

[IanH]

I dont live in these towns anymore, but I know them well so I will post this actual data. Neither of these towns/cities are small podunk places.

In one year based on reported state data:

Beverly MA - 1,100 citations
Salem MA - 11,000 citations

These towns border each other and share essentially the exact same driving population, types of roads, and share drivers between the towns.

There is no other possible explanation other than revenue generation as to why TEN TIMES the number of drivers were pulled over and cited in one town versus the other. It's also very well known that you are/were more likely to get pulled over in Salem versus Beverly.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Nayan.P5

I heard from others Waze is good, I wasn't sure what it was but from the info I gathered is this an app? Also some are saying most cops use laser these days so radar detectors aren't as useful. So is it just not worth the money for a radar detector?

no most cops don’t use lasers only at least in NE. They will be coming behind you or shooting from the opposite lane in front of you - this is where v1 rocks and gives you 2-3 mi warning if not more on flat road. Waze is good for stationary as well as general warnings and conditions based on real time data (crowdsourcing).

[beerbatman]

Originally Posted by Nayan.P5

I just bought a used m340i, I don't wanna rack up my insurance even more and I'm
Thinking abt purchasing a radar detector. Any reccomendations, cheap or expensive but I'm most likely gonna purchase one for around 300

I have a road angle here in the UK. Picks up Gatso, lasers etc but no false readings from shop doorways etc

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

Keep in mind many tickets are dismissed, reduced fines, deferred, etc. It several large cities I reviewed, all court revenue amounted from .05% to 5% of all jurisdictional revenue. That means code enforcement, fire department, law enforcement, etc. Court funds also go directly to the general fund for the city, etc. The cost to hire, train, pay, add benefits and equip even a dedicated traffic officer is easily well over $100k.

Which is why most large cities now use speed camera sytems. They contract with an integrator and split the profits (err, cough, revenues).

Because a real police officer doesn't witness the violation, to get around the 5th Amendment Constitutionality issue, the citation is a non-moving violation (like a parking ticket). So, that makes complete sense, a speeding ticket is a non-moving violation. But, yup, it's not for revenue generation. Nooooo.

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by IanH

I dont live in these towns anymore, but I know them well so I will post this actual data. Neither of these towns/cities are small podunk places.

In one year based on reported state data:

Beverly MA - 1,100 citations
Salem MA - 11,000 citations

These towns border each other and share essentially the exact same driving population, types of roads, and share drivers between the towns.

There is no other possible explanation other than revenue generation as to why TEN TIMES the number of drivers were pulled over and cited in one town versus the other. It's also very well known that you are/were more likely to get pulled over in Salem versus Beverly.

Yes, but those numbers in Salem are skewed by witches on broomsticks aren't they?

But seriously, I think both sides are correct depending on the city/municipality. Most towns are going to have an officer anyway so paying for the officer, equipment and vehicle is not an opportunity cost.

But the real issue is pointed out by your numbers. Yes, in some places it is about revenue, for sure. The most ridiculous ticket I ever got was in LA on a country road. I rounded a corner a saw the 35 mph sign and city limit sign. I was going 55, the limit on the road, and braked real hard and know for sure I was at 35 when I was even with the sign. The cop didn't pull me over until I was past him and he saw my out of state plate. If that's not for revenue and a speed trap for out of staters I don't know what is. OOS, aren't coming back to fight it.

But some actually do it for safety, especially in school zones when the kids are out. I've wondered why there isn't more enforcement when the SQUEEZE crap is going on. Just like most things, it's a bit of both.

[ppointer]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

My first and foremost recommendation is to avoid speeding. In general, if you stay 9mph over the limit or below on most roads you are safe. Clearly school zones and other more restrictive areas are different. I also suggest that as speed limits increase, LE tolerance for speeds above the limit decreases. For example, on an interstate outside of cities with a 65 MPH limit, you would probably be safe at 74; however, on an interstate with an 85 MPH limit (like we have in Texas), you would probably not be safe at 94.

When running a radar detector there are several methods to avoid even instant-on. If you have a clear line of site and get are getting warnings that start and stop, it is likely instant-on is being used over a hill or around a curve ahead of you, watch your speed. If cars ahead of you are cresting a hill or rounding a curve and you see taillights, either traffic is slowing there or there is something else making people react, like maybe LE running LIDAR (laser) or other such.

If you are alone with no traffic in front, watch your speed as you top hills or round curves. Watch overpasses. See painted stripes on the shoulder that are perpendicular to the roadway at regularly spaced intervals, watch your speed and check for aircraft.

Or just maintain reasonable speeds.

Drive safely, the life you save could be mine.

And stay out of the left lane as much as possible. Try to appear as if you are not speeding even when you are.

[Josh-PA]

so just to connect back to the original question, things I suggest the OP research:

1. What type of radar/lidar do your local and state cops use. Some detectors are much more sensitive to specific frequencies and/or some detectors allow you to configure them to only report the specific frequencies your cops use. For instance, in PA, my local cops use K band consistently, whereas in NY on the way to my lake cottage, the cops use KA 90% of the time and usually just leave them on so you get huge warnings whenever a cop is within a mile or two.

2. consider what the majority of your driving is like - open highway, open back roads, small town centers, city, etc and consider what type of signals may be present that you want to know about and which ones you want to be sure are ignored.

3. Research the 'arrows' feature and whether that feature is worth ~$150 to you (I think it is, but others may not). If that feature is a must have, it will significantly limit your options.

4. Research false alarms sources and whether you will encounter them on a regular basis (hint: You will be). Then research which detectors have the best false filtering features - decide how much that feature is worth to you and possible trade offs to ultimate range.

5. Understand what Waze offers as well as other crowdsource options (like JBv1) and use it in conjunction with radar detectors. I've personally found waze markings to be about 50% right and 50% late (ie the cop caught someone and moved on down the road). I've also found my radar detector often picks up cops that were new on the scene that Waze hadn't marked yet (or cops unmarked themselves), but I travel more on less busy highways / less busy times of day.

6. Don't drive like an asshole - don't speed excessively, never speed in school zones or town centers, don't sit in the left lane, don't weave in and out of traffic, don't drive stupid fast in bad weather.

[Silence*]

I mainly use my detector on the highway and my Escort Max360 (not the C) has done me decent over the last 3 years, but I wish I spent a little more money on a better unit. The arrows and speed camera reminders are awesome but it has limited hardware, which means you can't customize it to filter out the many false KA alerts it constantly picks up all the time.

I recently sold it & am planning to replace it with a Uniden R7.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

My first and foremost recommendation is to avoid speeding. In general, if you stay 9mph over the limit or below on most roads you are safe. Clearly school zones and other more restrictive areas are different. I also suggest that as speed limits increase, LE tolerance for speeds above the limit decreases. For example, on an interstate outside of cities with a 65 MPH limit, you would probably be safe at 74; however, on an interstate with an 85 MPH limit (like we have in Texas), you would probably not be safe at 94.

When running a radar detector there are several methods to avoid even instant-on. If you have a clear line of site and get are getting warnings that start and stop, it is likely instant-on is being used over a hill or around a curve ahead of you, watch your speed. If cars ahead of you are cresting a hill or rounding a curve and you see taillights, either traffic is slowing there or there is something else making people react, like maybe LE running LIDAR (laser) or other such.

If you are alone with no traffic in front, watch your speed as you top hills or round curves. Watch overpasses. See painted stripes on the shoulder that are perpendicular to the roadway at regularly spaced intervals, watch your speed and check for aircraft.

Or just maintain reasonable speeds.

Drive safely, the life you save could be mine.

Exactly. Keep it at 8-9 mph over and police ignore you in most cases. Alone on the road you are very exposed. And you are exactly right about catching random Ka from instant-on aimed at someone else and that being a hint to slow down.

As others mention, Waze on the HWY, because elsewhere the police are always changing location. Laser, forget it, they got you. Though, as mentioned, that is usually HWY and Waze can help with that.

Funny story, some wad was following me too closely on the HWY and I saw what appeared to be a speed trap 1/2 mile away. No alert of any kind. I lifted, he got annoyed and blew by. You guessed it, he got nailed by laser. I know because my laser alert went off and the police pulled him over.

Also, be cautious with detectors that auto mute alarms. They say that it only mutes the false signal and still watches for actual radar, but I know better and have the ticket to prove it. Still running an older Escort, it gets the job done.

[erickonphoenix]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

Exactly.

Still running an older Escort, it gets the job done.

It probably does pretty well, but be careful around the Kustom Raptor K band gun. It sneaks up on even the best RDs detecting off axis. We tested one and everyone was having issues picking it up more than two lanes off axis. Not to mentions K band fatigue with all the lane departure systems cluttering up that band right now.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by erickonphoenix

It probably does pretty well, but be careful around the Kustom Raptor K band gun. It sneaks up on even the best RDs detecting off axis. We tested one and everyone was having issues picking it up more than two lanes off axis. Not to mentions K band fatigue with all the lane departure systems cluttering up that band right now.

Good to know. I am thinking of getting an update. The K-band fatigue being a big reason.

LOL - thought the term "rabbit" was of my own making. I have often employed the strategy.

What have you heard regarding Uniden R8 vs Max 360 MK II? Those seem to be good bang for buck.