[triple35]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Aside from the HPFP (which now has a 10yr warranty), I think a mildly tuned 335i will be more reliable than the G8, faster, AND get better fuel economy. FYI, there is a guy on here with the new CTSV and a JB3 335xi. His 335i runs the same 1/4 mile ETs, (12.3), gets way better gas mileage, and pulls almost as strong top end. And we all know a CTS-V would murder a G8.

wait 10 year warranty on the hpfp?! when did this happen ?

[Schmed]

I'm also taking a good look at the GXP when my lease is up.....

Pros:
- 400+ hp
- Limited slip
- decent-enough looks
- decent handling
- American (Australian?) car

Cons:
- no fold down rear seats
- no Xenons
- maintenance not included
- no loaner program at my dealer
- poor gas mileage

I guess I'm going to give it a fair look - I've always wanted an American RWD sport sedan and until now, the closest thing available was a Charger. The Charger just felt super cheap when I drove one.

[siriusinvestor]

Originally Posted by yomama69

GM already disbanded all the entire "V" line. No more V cars.

I don't understand why everyone is still so impressed with a large displacement engine sitting on any platform. That's the American way. That's why GM failed. Most people are starting to realize that's just absurd. Anyone can take a large displacement engine and produce decent hp. So you're at 6L and only producing 400hp. You think that's a lot? 4L M3 produces that cutting down 2L in the process. Dumbass Americans would buy a shopping cart if it had an LS6 in it. GM is just way behind in the times concerning automotive engineering.

GM = PWNED!

PS - That's why wagoner was fired to begin with, 10 years ago he was making fun of the Japanese automakers for creating hybrids, that they were sissy cars. When Americans ran into $4.00 / gallon gas, hybrids were not sissy cars anymore. When Wagoner should have been creating a hybrid, he instead opted to make the H2 & H3 and other various gas guzzling monstrosities.

[MusclezMarinara]

LOVE THE G8 bro go get it !

[msitter]

I have both, an 328i convert and a 06 GTO M6. Very different cars. BMW is my wifes and not something I would even consider as my daily driver. Not a bad car but not my type. In everyday driving a GTO or a G8 GXP would absolutely destroy an M3. This is because of torque. Unless the M3 is wound tight it is gutless. I personally don't want to drive around at 6000 rpm just so I can run even with the ocassional GTO or G8. Fuel mileage is about 3 mpg city and 2 mpg hwy better on the 328 than the GTO. Biggest difference, GTO list $20000 less than the 328i convert and to be honest, I don't see a $20000 difference in it. Resale as a percentage I think is the same. Besides you don't buy a new car as an investment. By the way the BMW has been back to the dealer more times for quality issues than either my GTO or my 06 Evvoy Denali.

[yomama69]

Originally Posted by msitter

I have both, an 328i convert and a 06 GTO M6. Very different cars. BMW is my wifes and not something I would even consider as my daily driver. Not a bad car but not my type. In everyday driving a GTO or a G8 GXP would absolutely destroy an M3. This is because of torque. Unless the M3 is wound tight it is gutless. I personally don't want to drive around at 6000 rpm just so I can run even with the ocassional GTO or G8. Fuel mileage is about 3 mpg city and 2 mpg hwy better on the 328 than the GTO. Biggest difference, GTO list $20000 less than the 328i convert and to be honest, I don't see a $20000 difference in it. Resale as a percentage I think is the same. Besides you don't buy a new car as an investment. By the way the BMW has been back to the dealer more times for quality issues than either my GTO or my 06 Evvoy Denali.

[adjmcloon]

I have owned quite a few GM products over the years, and I haven't had many issues with any of them. Only one of them left me stranded one time, the rest were solid and dependable and each got traded off with over 100k on the clock.

I love my BMW, but I don't see the sense in not having an open mind to American products. GM and Ford have made really good improvements the past few years. I would love to see the stereotype that all U.S. cars are crap go away.

The Cadillac CTS-V, Corvette ZR-1 and others are terrific cars.

[yomama69]

Originally Posted by adjmcloon

I have owned quite a few GM products over the years, and I haven't had many issues with any of them. Only one of them left me stranded one time, the rest were solid and dependable and each got traded off with over 100k on the clock.

I love my BMW, but I don't see the sense in not having an open mind to American products. GM and Ford have made really good improvements the past few years. I would love to see the stereotype that all U.S. cars are crap go away.

The Cadillac CTS-V, Corvette ZR-1 and others are terrific cars.

You've named 2 cars. One of which is not being made anymore. The other is just outrageously expensive. I have no problem giving Ford credit for their improvements, but GM is just garbage, and half my family either currently works for or has worked for GM in the past.

[ruxp]

Originally Posted by AS

Ok you guys.
I'm a died in the wool BMW fan just like you but I was blown away today with an "American" car. The Pontiac G8 is actually a Holden Commodore from Australia with a Corvette engine shoehorned in under the hood. Unreal car. I am totally smitten with this thing. 40 grand out the door for 415 hp 5 passenger 4 door RWD sedan.

Really, the interior is not quite BMW standards, but not bad at all. Very European in general. That's the impression I had from the handling too, very European. Great car. I mean really, what can touch this for 40K?

This may just be my next car. I'm just can't stop thinking about it. It's like a 4 door Corvette for 40K. Coming from a dad, that's rather appealing.

Alec

I don't have an inherent bias against American cars. I think the CTS-V, Z06, and ZR-1 are all great cars. The G8 is a piece of shit though, imo. I've driven one (though not a GXP) and it did not impress me in any way, whatsoever. I say go w/ a 335, or an E90 M3.


BTW, I think I've seen your car around. Nice ride.

[just4kickz]

do it... as for the suspension... i'm sure you can always go aftermarket

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by yomama69

GM already disbanded all the entire "V" line. No more V cars.

You are 100% wrong.

It turns out, though, that G.M. will continue to sell those models, at least until it is time to replace them with the next generation. Vince Muniga, G.M.’s product communications manager for performance cars, called The Times to explain that High Performance Vehicle Operations, or H.P.V.O., “is responsible for taking production vehicles and adding performance accessories, or creating high-performance versions” of mainstream cars — models like the CTS-V and Cobalt SS.

“These models are going to stay in the vehicle pipeline,” Mr. Muniga said. “They are regular production cars. The design and engineering are already done.”

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...y-not-so-fast/


So, yes, in the future there will be no more SS, GXP, or V models (unless resurrected) but in the meantime, all current models will continue production until their body styles are due to be replaced. In the case of the ZR1, that is a few years down the road at least. The CTS-V has a long time left since the CTS just coming out. The G8 GXP will last as long as Pontiac does. The Cobalt SS will be gone by 2011 when the Cruze comes out.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by yomama69

GM already disbanded all the entire "V" line. No more V cars.

I don't understand why everyone is still so impressed with a large displacement engine sitting on any platform. That's the American way. That's why GM failed. Most people are starting to realize that's just absurd. Anyone can take a large displacement engine and produce decent hp. So you're at 6L and only producing 400hp. You think that's a lot? 4L M3 produces that cutting down 2L in the process. Dumbass Americans would buy a shopping cart if it had an LS6 in it. GM is just way behind in the times concerning automotive engineering.

Oh no, not this again. Who gives a shit about displacement? If it has performance and decent fuel economy( which the Chevy Small Block V8 has always been able to achieve) who gives a crap if it is 8 billion liters?

I love how this always happens when someone threats from going from BMW to a GM vehicle. All the image snobs come out of the wood work.

**4 GM vehicles with no major problems**

Originally Posted by yomama69

You've named 2 cars. One of which is not being made anymore. The other is just outrageously expensive. I have no problem giving Ford credit for their improvements, but GM is just garbage, and half my family either currently works for or has worked for GM in the past.

Both the ZR1 and the CTS-V are still in production( although the Corvette plant is being shutdown for a few months due to inventory is building up).

[IrateSpeed6]

I have seriously considered the GXP also, but as of yet there is no lease option! And no HID's?!?

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Oh no, not this again. Who gives a shit about displacement? If it has performance and decent fuel economy( which the Chevy Small Block V8 has always been able to achieve) who gives a crap if it is 8 billion liters?

I love how this always happens when someone threats from going from BMW to a GM vehicle. All the image snobs come out of the wood work.

**4 GM vehicles with no major problems**



Both the ZR1 and the CTS-V are still in production( although the Corvette plant is being shutdown for a few months due to inventory is building up).

1) People think HP/liter determines races.

2) People have never seen the late 90's Viper GTS-R or C5/C6.R

[montreal red]

Originally Posted by Bimmer007

it makes a nice noise

thats one fucking mean exhaust note. pure muscle right there.

[92tripleblack]

CTS-V
Corvette, all
The new Camaro will probably be a company saver. Hot, with hot motors and a reasonable price.
Their pickups are good but not marketable to most of us.
SUVs are ok if you want one. Escalade, Suburban. I'd rather have a Full Sixe GM SUV than anything but a GL including the TOYota crap. They'll be fine. Market's turning. Up 25% or so from the bottom already despite Obama and the Unions have their boy in office now. He'll take care of them unfortunately.

They planned on axeing the divisions that are redundant before the CEO was replaced. Hummer, Saturn, and Pontiac in that order were on the chopping block. Hopefully Pontiac makes it. The others I could care less about. Have Caddie be upscale, Chevy average joe, and Pontiac the "different" one it's always been. Get rid of Buick instead. It is still regarded as an old man's car and is unsaveable as was Olds in my opinion. Last good car Buick had was in '87 with the GNX.

[yomama69]

Originally Posted by Kampfer

1) People think HP/liter determines races.

2) People have never seen the late 90's Viper GTS-R or C5/C6.R

Is anyone racing to work in their Pontiac?

[msitter]

I am now tired of hearing all of the eliteism from some of you BMW owners. How many of you out there don't even own your car but only lease it. Maybe the cost of ownership is too much. I think a lot of you would not have a BMW in your driveway if it were not for the lease program. All cars are reliable these days and last I checked Buick was on top of J.D.Powers quality survey not BMW. If I were to use problems or build quality as my barometer for a good car then my 328i convertible would be the worst car I have owned since my wifes Saab convertible. I however realize that an automobile is a highly complex and precision piece of equipment and as such certain problems can arise. That is not to say that it is automaticly a POS. Only when the problems cannot be resolved can one say it is junk. I don't think a GM car is inherintly less reliable than a BMW, I know that it is far less expensive and easier to fix than a BMW. These cars are a sum of their parts and I hardly think that a shock, spark plug, air filter, air cond compressor, belt or any part is so much intrinsicly better than the equal part for an American, Japanese or Korean car, that it warrants a huge premium price. You guys know, I don't. All I know is that when the warranty is up this car is gone. BMW is good at convincing you that you are incapable of checking the oil or even changing it at a predetermined interval. In Europe BMWs are Germany's Ford or Chevrolet. They are all over the place. No prestige in owning one. It still escapes me why they are so prestigious here. Just another small sedan. So if one of your members is looking at another make, don't critisize him. It is his money and his problem it it goes south not ours. Besides the world press thinks the G8 GXP is as good as a 545i at half the priice.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by msitter

I am now tired of hearing all of the eliteism from some of you BMW owners. How many of you out there don't even own your car but only lease it. Maybe the cost of ownership is too much. I think a lot of you would not have a BMW in your driveway if it were not for the lease program. All cars are reliable these days and last I checked Buick was on top of J.D.Powers quality survey not BMW. If I were to use problems or build quality as my barometer for a good car then my 328i convertible would be the worst car I have owned since my wifes Saab convertible. I however realize that an automobile is a highly complex and precision piece of equipment and as such certain problems can arise. That is not to say that it is automaticly a POS. Only when the problems cannot be resolved can one say it is junk. I don't think a GM car is inherintly less reliable than a BMW, I know that it is far less expensive and easier to fix than a BMW. These cars are a sum of their parts and I hardly think that a shock, spark plug, air filter, air cond compressor, belt or any part is so much intrinsicly better than the equal part for an American, Japanese or Korean car, that it warrants a huge premium price. You guys know, I don't. All I know is that when the warranty is up this car is gone. BMW is good at convincing you that you are incapable of checking the oil or even changing it at a predetermined interval. In Europe BMWs are Germany's Ford or Chevrolet. They are all over the place. No prestige in owning one. It still escapes me why they are so prestigious here. Just another small sedan. So if one of your members is looking at another make, don't critisize him. It is his money and his problem it it goes south not ours. Besides the world press thinks the G8 GXP is as good as a 545i at half the priice.

Man are they going to bitch slap you. The truth hurts.

[cougfan335]

Haven't been in the Pontiac yet, but it is pretty damn good looking and I've always hoped GM would start bringing over more Holdens. I'd say go for it. However you will be supporting terrorism with all the gas you burn up. I am the stereotypical BMW driver who wanted power without huge displacement so I can turn my nose up at V8s, woops I only get 17.2 MPG, there goes that argument. And who cares about gas mileage anyways, if someone gave me a couple hundred grand my first stop would be Barrett-Jackson for a big block Chevy or Dodge that gets 7mpg.

[AlecX5]

Wow. That was a can of worms.

Had no idea. In fact, I've been a bit of a badge snob for a long time now. I finally decided to pop my head out of the sand and look around a little. And not just at Audi. The Audi is just a slower BMW with a nicer dash as far as I'm concerned. It was almost odd feeling walking into the Pontiac dealership. How fucked up is that that I think this is somehow beneath me. What and arrogant prick am I anyway?

This family sedan, (what I need above all is a family sedan) meets all of my criteria. Very roomy. 5 series space. Nice exterior design, huge trunk and what I consider a very modern and simple dash layout.

Ultimately, as a serious car guy, I would be a idiot not to seriously consider this car. It's designed for a guy like me that has a family, and LOVES a great handling car with a big stinking motor. It's a Corvette engine for god's sake. This is as close to a 4 door Corvette as you're going to get!

By the way, I was just looking at the web site. GM is offering 3K back on purchase price. So Now it's a 36 grand car. That's 20 grand cheaper than a 6 cylinder 5 series. How is this not a slam dunk? Did I mention it handled like a BMW?

Really blown away with what GM did here. Probably going to buy soon.
Alec

[TwinTurboXI]

Originally Posted by spacedogg

Drinks a lot of gas...but what 400hp+ car doesn't?

The 335