[DrockNJ]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

I really shouldn't even bother, but I feel compelled. Samwoo, I am sorry for your situation, and I certainly understand why you'd be upset. I refuse to believe any competent cop/attorney couldn't find the real truth in your case, but again, I don't know the details. It's difficult to believe you have any respect as I have never heard a respectful fuck you, but that's besides the point.

Most of the time cops deal with the shittiest side of humanity, so pardon us if we don't want to hear your bullshit excuse for all the traffic violations you just knowingly committed. Damn near EVERYONE lies to us all the time and I'll tell you it gets old real quick. Perhaps you should consider what it is about you that attracts you to the cops and change it instead of whining about it.

88, I really can't argue against your experiences either, and it is frustrating when you get to deal the small percentage of cops who are in the biz because their mothers didn't love them, they have small penises and large egos, but rest assured the majority of us are out there making it so Samwoo can cry about it and tell me to fuck off.

I worked as a JO in the schools, and to this day my students still come up to me and thank me, even if I was a dick to them or was forced by their actions to arrest them. Of course, there are those who think I'm the biggest ass on the planet, but there's no helping people with the type of personality that refuses to let them see themselves for what they truly are.

Either way, cops understand this prejudice against them since MOST people only deal with the cops when they are in trouble or something terrible has happened to them. Despite all of this, I still go to work and bust my ass to make sure all of you (Generalization) can walk down the street without worrying about getting accosted, killed or otherwise molested. I realize it still happens, and I want you to know that I take it personally each time there is a crime against a person in my jurisdiction.

I also take it personally when people automatically assume the cop is an ass and treat them poorly. I ask you, where is my motivation to give you a warning (My natural inclination) when your first question is some cliche like "Don't you have anything better to do?" Perhaps the general public would be more appreciative if the police were allowed to strike, or let you get the ass whipping you probably deserve at the bar fight call we go to?

When you call the cops and run the other direction due to bullets, fists or other projectiles, Ie go straight there to sort it out. I work on the holidays that you are celebrating and at night when you are asleep. I don't want you admiration nor do I want to be called a hero, but I would like some of you to take a little personal responsibility and realize that not everyone in a given profession is an asshole, nor is everyone in pro sports a good person.

Flame suit on!

[335R1]

There's some ignorance going on here between people who don't quite get the difference between corrections, court and law enforcement. A lot of generalization and assumption about the police culture.

[lambtron]

Originally Posted by 335R1

There's some ignorance going on here between people who don't quite get the difference between corrections, court and law enforcement. A lot of generalization and assumption about the police culture.

+1 and a lot of uneducated opinion (regarding the subject of the matter)

[Laser McCool]

Originally Posted by Noc57

Godbless our men and women in service. I have nothing but respect for soldiers.

These boys who get paid millions to "play ball", aren't hero's by any means. Remember that Browns player who drove drunk and killed a guy down in Miami earlier this year?

Here's the article:

http://perilsoftransportation.blogsp...s-dui-but.html

I still love my football though

LOL you love your football, but don't know enough to reference Dante Stallworth in your post?

No question that police risk their lives by going to work, but this guy just sounds like sour grapes.. boo hoo the college football hall is more expensive than the LE HOF... get over it.. colleges have boosters, wealthy alum.. etc.. And who is this guy to say college players aren't heroes? Maybe not to HIM, but the college player who comes from the middle of the ghetto, beats all the odds, and is the first to ever graduate College in his family is DEFINITELY a hero to SOMEONE.. he is a positive influence on all of the younger kids who might think twice before they start selling drugs or pick up a gun.

[Laser McCool]

Originally Posted by 88Brimble

Law enforcement officers are the reason people don't care about law enforcement. I'd much rather go to a football museum then a cop museum.

Sorry, I know I sound like an idiot...but the cops I've had to deal with are the reason I don't care anymore. I know I'm not the only one, and that's part of the reason they aren't able to raise money for their little museum.

Soldiers are a different story, they are true heroes....I doubt anyone thinks football players are the kind of heroes our soldiers are, really really doubt it.

thats a double standard for sure.. Most Military guys are just as cocky as cops.. you cant say that you dont like one over the other just because one group gives you tickets and the other doesnt...in fact most cops ARE ex military.

[Negotiator]

Too many people both in the military and in law enforcement forget that (a) They are public servants, not the other way around. Check your attitude; and (b) Specifically law enforcement, you are enforcing the law, not justice. Get off your high horse. Without making generalizations, I doubt someone from Princeton graduating top of their class in finance will go run patrol duty. Just because you have the uniform doesn't make your ass bulletproof and doesn't give you a right to talk to people like a lot of police officers do. You spoke about the standard "don't you have anything better to do?" phrase, but you have a lot of standards of your own. Ticket or no ticket, no encounter with a law enforcement agent has ever been pleasant, no matter how polite I act. I respect your JOB to enforce laws, and I accept the consequences that come with breaking the law. When you start acting like I kicked your dog by speeding at 4 am in the morning you can just shut the fuck up and write me a ticket, and then go back to your sweet 12 hour schedule of sitting under highway underpasses.

People need to take a hard look at themselves and realise that a lot of their supposed heroic choices aren't really choices and then act accordingly.

[solefald]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Too many people both in the military and in law enforcement forget that (a) They are public servants, not the other way around. Check your attitude; and (b) Specifically law enforcement, you are enforcing the law, not justice. Get off your high horse. Without making generalizations, I doubt someone from Princeton graduating top of their class in finance will go run patrol duty. Just because you have the uniform doesn't make your ass bulletproof and doesn't give you a right to talk to people like a lot of police officers do. You spoke about the standard "don't you have anything better to do?" phrase, but you have a lot of standards of your own. Ticket or no ticket, no encounter with a law enforcement agent has ever been pleasant, no matter how polite I act. I respect your JOB to enforce laws, and I accept the consequences that come with breaking the law. When you start acting like I kicked your dog by speeding at 4 am in the morning you can just shut the fuck up and write me a ticket, and then go back to your sweet 12 hour schedule of sitting under highway underpasses.

People need to take a hard look at themselves and realise that a lot of their supposed heroic choices aren't really choices and then act accordingly.

Thanks Negotiator. Very well put. I was just gonna respond to his narcissistic "i protect people from you" bullshit, but you beat me to it.

[Laser McCool]

Not that I havent had my fair share of run-ins with Jerk Cops... but Ive also had my fair share of run-ins with Jerk Department store associates, jerk bankers, jerk waiters, jerk car salesmen etc. People are People.. just because someone is a cop doesnt mean that they are a nice person, they could be a huge DB just like ANY other line of work. I have had a fair amount of pleasant runins with cops too.. but I am decent to them when they pull me over, By looking at your posts I can see why you have never had a positive experience with a cop... you are all huge jerk offs..

[Kroy]

Originally Posted by Laser McCool

Not that I havent had my fair share of run-ins with Jerk Cops... but Ive also had my fair share of run-ins with Jerk Department store associates, jerk bankers, jerk waiters, jerk car salesmen etc. People are People.. just because someone is a cop doesnt mean that they are a nice person, they could be a huge DB just like ANY other line of work. I have had a fair amount of pleasant runins with cops too.. but I am decent to them when they pull me over, By looking at your posts I can see why you have never had a positive experience with a cop... you are all huge jerk offs..

I agree not all cops are jerks. But as you've said there are jerk cops and out of all those positions you listed, cops have the most authority to abuse. You can't walk away from a cop.

Whenever I talk to an officer, I'm always polite and courteous, even if the officer isn't. I've met both cool cops and douchebag power trip cops. That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with donating money towards building a HOF for college football rather than police HOF. I know immiketoo is a stand-up guy; all the time I've known him on the board, I've never had a problem with him. I'd assume it would be the same if I met him in real life, but his behavior and attitude doesn't reflect police as a whole. All it takes is one rotten apple to spoil everything and from what it sounds like, most people have encountered at least one rotten cop.

Again, I always give policemen the respect I think they deserve because wearing a badge they are a representative of the law, but it's often very disheartening to see them blatantly talk on their cell phones while driving and turn their sirens off just to make a light (when it's obvious they're not heading towards a crime scene). I again understand these individuals don't represent the whole police force either, but they are still wearing a badge and given the same privlidges and responsibilities all officers are. Immiketoo, as sad as it is to say this, whenever someone experiences a douchebag cop, it will negatively reinforce the bad stereotype, but your good behavior will only be seen as "doing your job."

[335R1]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Too many people both in the military and in law enforcement forget that (a) They are public servants, not the other way around. Check your attitude; and (b) Specifically law enforcement, you are enforcing the law, not justice. Get off your high horse. Without making generalizations, I doubt someone from Princeton graduating top of their class in finance will go run patrol duty. Just because you have the uniform doesn't make your ass bulletproof and doesn't give you a right to talk to people like a lot of police officers do. You spoke about the standard "don't you have anything better to do?" phrase, but you have a lot of standards of your own. Ticket or no ticket, no encounter with a law enforcement agent has ever been pleasant, no matter how polite I act. I respect your JOB to enforce laws, and I accept the consequences that come with breaking the law. When you start acting like I kicked your dog by speeding at 4 am in the morning you can just shut the fuck up and write me a ticket, and then go back to your sweet 12 hour schedule of sitting under highway underpasses.

People need to take a hard look at themselves and realise that a lot of their supposed heroic choices aren't really choices and then act accordingly.

Soldiers never forget their purpose and cause. I'm not a public servant to you or anyone else. I did what I did for the love of a piece of paper written a couple hundred years ago that means more to me than fighting or protecting your "god given rights" or the kid from princeton who graduated top of his class with a degree in finance. You only reaped the benefits of our sacrifice so check yourself at the welcome mat. You swing a double edge sword by speaking of respect for the job then you throw in a fu attitude at the end.

Take a few classes on the law and our justice system before you make anymore assasine comments. If you did, you'd notice how politics, economy and culture has change policing roles throughout the century. I will admit the system is imperfect and changes still have to be made, but so far no one here yet has made an intellectual comment on that. Instead we've gotten irrelevant and out of scope comments about bad experiences with the "po-pos". You generalize the badge and uniform and you applied it everywhere. Rational thought has escaped you for you can't converse on the subject with an unbiased attitude. Some cops are assholes and some are corrupt, what's your point? Assholes and corruption do not limit themselves to the boys in blue. I can make points from many different avenues, but for the sake of arguement, I'll stay on the subject of police culture and social order.

For the record, I disagree with the article. I can however, understand why the author is bitter that law enforcement is overcast by athletes. Further analysis will show its mostly economics. Sadly enough, it also shows an issue with American values and morals. But that's another debate.

[88Brimble]

Originally Posted by Laser McCool

you cant say that you dont like one over the other just because one group gives you tickets and the other doesnt...in fact most cops ARE ex military.

Yes I can. My experience with military/ex military isn't the same as with cops.

Cops are supposed to deal with people (the ones they're serving), they're supposed to protect and serve us...I always hear the excuse, "We deal with the worst people around, so it's hard to be nice or kind to everyone else."

Well that's fine if you work in Compton, but not where a lot of people live (especially on this forum...). And even if the cops where I live deal with more than I think (I'd bet against that), that's no excuse. You're job is to work for/with people, learn to do it without being a douche. All the excuses I've heard are bullshit....I can't be a bitch to my boss, neither can anyone else, no matter how shitty they are to me.

It seems like "Protect and serve" is the last thing on most cops minds. And by the way, everything I'm saying is towards patrol cops.

Soldiers are supposed to protect us, and our country. They're job isn't to interact with us every day.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by 88Brimble

You're job is to work for people, learn to do it without being a douche.

This I am in 100% agreement with. Until you treat me otherwise, I will ALWAYS give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Negotiator]

Originally Posted by 335R1

Soldiers never forget their purpose and cause. I'm not a public servant to you or anyone else. I did what I did for the love of a piece of paper written a couple hundred years ago that means more to me than fighting or protecting your "god given rights" or the kid from princeton who graduated top of his class with a degree in finance. You only reaped the benefits of our sacrifice so check yourself at the welcome mat. You swing a double edge sword by speaking of respect for the job then you throw in a fu attitude at the end.

Take a few classes on the law and our justice system before you make anymore assasine comments. If you did, you'd notice how politics, economy and culture has change policing roles throughout the century. I will admit the system is imperfect and changes still have to be made, but so far no one here yet has made an intellectual comment on that. Instead we've gotten irrelevant and out of scope comments about bad experiences with the "po-pos". You generalize the badge and uniform and you applied it everywhere. Rational thought has escaped you for you can't converse on the subject with an unbiased attitude. Some cops are assholes and some are corrupt, what's your point? Assholes and corruption do not limit themselves to the boys in blue. I can make points from many different avenues, but for the sake of arguement, I'll stay on the subject of police culture and social order.

For the record, I disagree with the article. I can however, understand why the author is bitter that law enforcement is overcast by athletes. Further analysis will show its mostly economics. Sadly enough, it also shows an issue with American values and morals. But that's another debate.

Actually, you are a public servant because you get paid by tax money. Also, my "assinine" comment about the difference of the concept of Law and concept of Justice still stands. That can be evidenced, as you pointed out, by the constantly changing law to accomodate for a better system of justice.

I don't generalize the badge. I'm pointing out my experience with people who have jobs where they get shot at, including those on this forum. You talk like you're doing everyone this huge self-sacrificing favor. What the fuck do you think you were doing for me in Iraq? Really? Protecting me from Saddam? Pack your shit and come home, I'll manage that security risk.

My biggest point is this: Stop the bravado. People take worse risks in shitty neighborhoods in the states (where the police are nowhere to be found, by the way) doing day-to-day tasks with a huge risk of getting mugged and killed. They don't go around telling people how they are there so others don't have to do it. They are there because that's the best they could do, and because they need a paycheck.

[88Brimble]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

This I am in 100% agreement with. Until you treat me otherwise, I will ALWAYS give you the benefit of the doubt.

I wish all cops thought like that, maybe I wouldn't hate them the second I see them. Mostly because I don't want to piss them off, but I'm always nice and chill with cops...then they treat me like I just shot their mom for no reason.

[samwoo2go]

And I have seen some absolutely completely fucked up corrections officers...some real human scums that I would not hesitate for a second to demote under cockroach status. any1 that complain about street cops haven't seen shit son.

[solefald]

Originally Posted by samwoo2go

And I have seen some absolutely completely fucked up corrections officers...

Because they have the huge-ass key for the cage they keep you in. Since guns aren't allowed inside the jail, the key is the only thing that makes them superior to you, which they never fail to show.

[335R1]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Actually, you are a public servant because you get paid by tax money. Also, my "assinine" comment about the difference of the concept of Law and concept of Justice still stands. That can be evidenced, as you pointed out, by the constantly changing law to accomodate for a better system of justice.

Reading comprehension has also escaped you. I don't recall saying changing laws to accomodate for a better system of justice. When I said change some things, did you assume I meant laws? So if you did use my comment as evidence, then it's circumstantial at most and misinterpreted completely. I don't believe you explained the concept of law and justice, you did however infered they were different through police excercise of enforcement and discretion.

Originally Posted by Negotiator

I don't generalize the badge. I'm pointing out my experience with people who have jobs where they get shot at, including those on this forum. You talk like you're doing everyone this huge self-sacrificing favor. What the fuck do you think you were doing for me in Iraq? Really? Protecting me from Saddam? Pack your shit and come home, I'll manage that security risk.

I didn't do shit for you anywhere. So don't for once think you're special enough and worthy of sacrifice. Like I said, you only reaped the benefits of our sacrifices. But we sure as hell didn't do it for you. I did it for everything else, but you. I did it for reasons and causes beyond your understanding. I did it for everyone else I give two shits about. That puts your importance in the crevice of the pebble beneath my boots. I served two combat tours, Iraq wasn't one of them.

Originally Posted by Negotiator

My biggest point is this: Stop the bravado. People take worse risks in shitty neighborhoods in the states (where the police are nowhere to be found, by the way) doing day-to-day tasks with a huge risk of getting mugged and killed. They don't go around telling people how they are there so others don't have to do it. They are there because that's the best they could do, and because they need a paycheck.

Wow, I can only guess the last two sentences were a jabbed at the military. That right there is more ignorant than the idiot causing risks in shitty neighborhoolds where "the police are nowhere to be found". So what exactly do you want to debate? Crime control, legal and justice system, sociol order, international policy or do you want to continue bashing uniformed civilian and military? I'll tell you what, if you're feeling a little less important for whatever reason, make an appointment. I'll let you carry my bags for me.

[Noc57]

Originally Posted by 335R1

Reading comprehension has also escaped you. I don't recall saying changing laws to accomodate for a better system of justice. When I said change some things, did you assume I meant laws? So if you did use my comment as evidence, then it's circumstantial at most and misinterpreted completely. I don't believe you explained the concept of law and justice, you did however infered they were different through police excercise of enforcement and discretion.



I didn't do shit for you anywhere. So don't for once think you're special enough and worthy of sacrifice. Like I said, you only reaped the benefits of our sacrifices. But we sure as hell didn't do it for you. I did it for everything else, but you. I did it for reasons and causes beyond your understanding. I did it for everyone else I give two shits about. That puts your importance in the crevice of the pebble beneath my boots. I served two combat tours, Iraq wasn't one of them.



Wow, I can only guess the last two sentences were a jabbed at the military. That right there is more ignorant than the idiot causing risks in shitty neighborhoolds where "the police are nowhere to be found". So what exactly do you want to debate? Crime control, legal and justice system, sociol order, international policy or do you want to continue bashing uniformed civilian and military? I'll tell you what, if you're feeling a little less important for whatever reason, make an appointment. I'll let you carry my bags for me.

People who have never served in the military will never understand. They'd rather sit home and blog their ass off, and watch CNN/FOX News to get their rundown on what's happening in the world. They don't see 6 year old girls getting set on fire, or having your best friend step on a land mine and get blown to pieces. The sad thing is they think they know better than everyone else, yet they don't have the slightest clue as to what's going on. They will never understand what it is you're fighting for, and the sacrifices you make....and it's simply pointless to try to convince such a person otherwise.

I'm not trying to get in the middle here, but I think Negotiator is way off base with his last comments.

[Negotiator]

Originally Posted by 335R1

Reading comprehension has also escaped you. I don't recall saying changing laws to accomodate for a better system of justice. When I said change some things, did you assume I meant laws? So if you did use my comment as evidence, then it's circumstantial at most and misinterpreted completely. I don't believe you explained the concept of law and justice, you did however infered they were different through police excercise of enforcement and discretion.



I didn't do shit for you anywhere. So don't for once think you're special enough and worthy of sacrifice. Like I said, you only reaped the benefits of our sacrifices. But we sure as hell didn't do it for you. I did it for everything else, but you. I did it for reasons and causes beyond your understanding. I did it for everyone else I give two shits about. That puts your importance in the crevice of the pebble beneath my boots. I served two combat tours, Iraq wasn't one of them.



Wow, I can only guess the last two sentences were a jabbed at the military. That right there is more ignorant than the idiot causing risks in shitty neighborhoolds where "the police are nowhere to be found". So what exactly do you want to debate? Crime control, legal and justice system, sociol order, international policy or do you want to continue bashing uniformed civilian and military? I'll tell you what, if you're feeling a little less important for whatever reason, make an appointment. I'll let you carry my bags for me.

1. They are not different through police enforcement, they are just different. Cops can only enforce the law. Therefore they can't accommodate justice since they are bound by law, right? That's my point.

2. You assume I don't understand your motives, fine, your particular motives don't matter in this discussion. Every individual acts rationally, even when they think they aren't. Self-sacrifice is possible only because of the psychological benefit of doing so that outweighs the fear of death. And we've come full circle where you admit that you're not serving for me. Great, that's my point. You serve for yourself, for the feeling of being a man that lives by his principles. That's important.

3. My point is mainly that a job is a job. I'm not bashing anyone, all I want is for the charade to stop. A lot of shortcomings are justified by "I served", or "I keep you safe at night" rhetoric, and that's where I have a problem. Just because someone puts their ass on the line doesn't mean they can justify their shitty attitudes, or worse, actions by that.



4. Just because I haven't served doesn't mean I haven't seen a fair share of fucked up shit. Growing up in a Soviet block country in the 90s had it's fair share of inconvenient factors.

[335R1]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

1. They are not different through police enforcement, they are just different. Cops can only enforce the law. Therefore they can't accommodate justice since they are bound by law, right? That's my point.

2. You assume I don't understand your motives, fine, your particular motives don't matter in this discussion. Every individual acts rationally, even when they think they aren't. Self-sacrifice is possible only because of the psychological benefit of doing so that outweighs the fear of death. And we've come full circle where you admit that you're not serving for me. Great, that's my point. You serve for yourself, for the feeling of being a man that lives by his principles. That's important.

3. My point is mainly that a job is a job. I'm not bashing anyone, all I want is for the charade to stop. A lot of shortcomings are justified by "I served", or "I keep you safe at night" rhetoric, and that's where I have a problem. Just because someone puts their ass on the line doesn't mean they can justify their shitty attitudes, or worse, actions by that.



4. Just because I haven't served doesn't mean I haven't seen a fair share of fucked up shit. Growing up in a Soviet block country in the 90s had it's fair share of inconvenient factors.

Finaly. A rebuttal I can respect and understand. I can't say I fully disagree with eveything you said here. I think we understand each other now.

1) Justice is subjective. Ask yourself what is absolute justice. For the most part, justice is served when an officer on front line does what is necessary and the bad guy is incapacitated to do anymore harm from there on.

2) If we can't live by principles, then what use is morals, values and ethics?

3) Agree. I never throw my service in anyone's face unless they blatantly disrepect and disregard human sacrifices in the name for a better tomorrow.

4) America is great isn't it?

[Comet]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

This I am in 100% agreement with. Until you treat me otherwise, I will ALWAYS give you the benefit of the doubt.

and I do the same with cops
I'm courteous and polite, but when the cop starts giving me attitude like "what's your hurry buddy?" and I was 1km/h over the speed limit.. I ask myself why is he being a dick to me? It is a human mistake.

that is what goes through our head, I said nothing wrong to him, I have my windows down, lights on, engine off and license and registration ready by the time he is at my window and greet him with a "good evening officer" or whatever.
I never throw the "don't you have anything better to do?" line, but I sure as hell think it when he starts making condescending comments.

Respect is a two way street. Cops don't deserve it because they wear a badge and spend all day hiding on a highway. I've only had 2 officers actually call me "sir". It is respect, I call you officer you call me sir. a cop wouldn't like it if I called him "popo" or "oinky" and as such I don't appreciate them calling me "buddy".

My neighborhood in N.A. is full of old retired people and wealthy people. It isn't like they put up with a bunch of thugs. (Nun's Island for those who live in Montreal)

I never said I was innocent of traffic violations either. However I do make an effort to not speed when I am in a country that doesn't tolerate it (Lebanon has no speed limit).

[UncleWede]

Some of us who didn't serve DO appreciate your sacrifice. And fight every day to bring world peace so that your sacrifice will not be in vain, yet also need not be continued.