[Carnage]

Both seem like great cameras. Based on the prices and specs, I'd say the Rebel XTI is the best way to spend your money.

[Gripster]

As an SLR beginner, the 400D is probably more than enough. You already get amazing results with a point and shoot, so I think you would be fine with this. There is a pretty steep learning curve with SLRs, unless you already know about things like f-stops, iso speeds, and dof control. Another point is that although the 30D is the superior camera, the 400D XTi has some very nice features for sensor dust management. It has more megapixels, but this starts not to make much difference above 8MP.

As Diesel said in another post, it ultimately comes down to the glass. The SLR body is the starting point, but you will want to get better lenses down the line - they open up a whole new world of creativity. A slightly cheaper, but very capable camera gives you a head start on your budget for these.

Either way, you can't go wrong. I have a 300D (the original digi-rebel 2 generations ago) and it is still capable of delivering excellent results. My skill level is more of a limiting factor than the camera at this point on the learning curve. And that's 2 years into SLR photography!

Finally - never forget one of my favorite quotes when it comes to photography. Camera's don't take pictures, people do. If you remember that, it makes much of your decision making a lot easier.

[ScBlacksunshine]

Fuck Newegg, I hate that place .... try Adorama or B&H photo instead

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by Gripster

As an SLR beginner, the 400D is probably more than enough. You already get amazing results with a point and shoot, so I think you would be fine with this. There is a pretty steep learning curve with SLRs, unless you already know about things like f-stops, iso speeds, and dof control. Another point is that although the 30D is the superior camera, the 400D XTi has some very nice features for sensor dust management. It has more megapixels, but this starts not to make much difference above 8MP.

As Diesel said in another post, it ultimately comes down to the glass. The SLR body is the starting point, but you will want to get better lenses down the line - they open up a whole new world of creativity. A slightly cheaper, but very capable camera gives you a head start on your budget for these.

Either way, you can't go wrong. I have a 300D (the original digi-rebel 2 generations ago) and it is still capable of delivering excellent results. My skill level is more of a limiting factor than the camera at this point on the learning curve. And that's 2 years into SLR photography!

Finally - never forget one of my favorite quotes when it comes to photography. Camera's don't take pictures, people do. If you remember that, it makes much of your decision making a lot easier.

Truth! Thanks

[StewtheBassman]

Originally Posted by Gripster

Finally - never forget one of my favorite quotes when it comes to photography. Camera's don't take pictures, people do. If you remember that, it makes much of your decision making a lot easier.

Gripster's in with the Big Quote....indeed...Nikki could take photos with my late Uncle's 1950's 120mm Kodak Brownie and those pics would rock!

The 30D is a smokin' gun Nikki, get it and you won't need a new camera for another 10 years!

[Buckman]

This camera is hot.

[Buckman]

Guess you cannot see the name. It is the D80.

[exAudiGuy]

Originally Posted by Nikki

What do you guys think of the Rebel XTi instead? I was talking with some other people and they said that I would never need any of the features the 30D has and that it is half as much and the lenses make the difference.
I don't know, any comments on that?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16830120070

The Xti, aka 400D, has been garnering a mixed reputation on the dpreview discussion boards. There is a camp that feels the Xti tends to underexpose a lot of images. This appears to be because Canon designed the metering algorithm to avoid "blowing highlights", that is having the brighter part of the images saturated. This can be a benefit if you are willing to do some post processing, as blown highlights cannot be recovered, wheras darker areas can be lightened. The opposing camp tends to dismiss the complaints as people who don't know how to use a DSLR. I don't own one, so I can't comment directly on performance, but there seem to be a fair number of dissatisfied buyers...thus my personal decision to spend a little more and get the 30D. One key feature that the 30D has is spot metering, which if you've used a film SLR with it, is a very nice thing to have.

To add to what Gripster said, I wouldn't let the 10MP of the 400D be a deciding factor over the 8MP 30D. The higher MP count of the 400D comes at some expense of image noise at higher ISO (more sensitive) settings. The extra resolution of 10MP would only come into play with very high quality lenses (e.g. Canon "L" series, very expensive) or if you're going to be making really large prints, i.e. greater than 16 x 20 inches.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by exAudiGuy

The Xti, aka 400D, has been garnering a mixed reputation on the dpreview discussion boards. There is a camp that feels the Xti tends to underexpose a lot of images. This appears to be because Canon designed the metering algorithm to avoid "blowing highlights", that is having the brighter part of the images saturated. This can be a benefit if you are willing to do some post processing, as blown highlights cannot be recovered, wheras darker areas can be lightened. The opposing camp tends to dismiss the complaints as people who don't know how to use a DSLR. I don't own one, so I can't comment directly on performance, but there seem to be a fair number of dissatisfied buyers...thus my personal decision to spend a little more and get the 30D. One key feature that the 30D has is spot metering, which if you've used a film SLR with it, is a very nice thing to have.

hmm something to think about, thanks...


ok these lenses were recommended to me, input?


best:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...9&modelid=7442

second best:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...9&modelid=7337

[exAudiGuy]

Originally Posted by Nikki

hmm something to think about, thanks...


ok these lenses were recommended to me, input?


best:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...9&modelid=7442

second best:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...9&modelid=7337

I can't speak directly to the Image Quality of either of those lenses, but you may want to watch out on focal length. Both the 400D and 30D are what as known as 1.6x crop factor cameras. What that means is that a 28 mm focal length will behave as 1.6 * 28 = 45 mm would on standard film SLR. So, the wide end of the lens won't be very wide...a definite drawback if you're taking pictures of people or inside.

[Gripster]

Both seem pretty good, although I don't have experience of either!

My favorite lens is my 10-22, but then I LOVE wide angle. It's closely followed by my 70-200 zoom, which is so sharp, it's scary.

Here's a good link discussing lenses.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/C...pose-Lens.aspx

[Gripster]

Originally Posted by exAudiGuy

I can't speak directly to the Image Quality of either of those lenses, but you may want to watch out on focal length. Both the 400D and 30D are what as known as 1.6x crop factor cameras. What that means is that a 28 mm focal length will behave as 1.6 * 28 = 45 mm would on standard film SLR. So, the wide end of the lens won't be very wide...a definite drawback if you're taking pictures of people or inside.

Unless you go EF-S. The 10-22 is an EF-S mount, so you get the focal length you expect despite the 1.6x crop factor.

People don't like EF-S mounts, but they're getting close to Canon's L-series in terms of quality, so if you can cope with the fact that they won't fit a film SLR, then they are a good choice.

[exAudiGuy]

Originally Posted by Gripster

Unless you go EF-S. The 10-22 is an EF-S mount, so you get the focal length you expect despite the 1.6x crop factor.

People don't like EF-S mounts, but they're getting close to Canon's L-series in terms of quality, so if you can cope with the fact that they won't fit a film SLR, then they are a good choice.

I don't mean to split hairs, but the 1.6 factor still applies, that is the 10-22 behaves as a 16-35 would on a film (or full frame digital) SLR. The S refers to the lens design, which puts the final element of the lens closer to the sensor, allowing a physically shorter lens. You are correct that the S series won't work on a film or full-frame (e.g. 1D, 5D) digital SLR.

[Gripster]

Originally Posted by exAudiGuy

I don't mean to split hairs, but the 1.6 factor still applies, that is the 10-22 behaves as a 16-35 would on a film (or full frame digital) SLR. The S refers to the lens design, which puts the final element of the lens closer to the sensor, allowing a physically shorter lens. You are correct that the S series won't work on a film or full-frame (e.g. 1D, 5D) digital SLR.

You're right about the crop on EF-S - I stand corrected.

[typerlover]

Costco has the Canon Rebel Xti for 799.99. Also you get their great "warranty" in case you have any problems, or something else comes out sometime soon.

They have the Rebel XT for 599.99, and the Nikon D50 with two lenses, bag, and 256mb SD card for 799.99. I got the D50 kit and its a nice camera, easily more than I can handle right now but takes great shots even with auto mode.

I found it worth it to go with Costco just incase anything ever happens its nice to have their return policy.

[nine4surfah]

If your on a tight budget "sigma"http://www.sigmaphoto.com/ and "tamron"http://www.tamron.com/ produce quality glass for a fraction of the cost of Canon lenses.

I'm saving cash for these bad boys....
Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG MACRO

Nice all purpose lens

Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 EX DC MACRO

Something for lanscapes and portraits.

Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO DG MACRO

for sport photography


By the way here's a link to a cool Canon photography forum
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php

[exAudiGuy]

Originally Posted by Gripster

You're right about the crop on EF-S - I stand corrected.

Thanks for being so gracious with the . I'll myself for getting technical and missing the point of taking good pictures.

Meanwhile, we seem to have lost Nikki...I'm hoping because it's late on the East Coast, and not that us camera nerds have scared her off!

[StewtheBassman]

She'll be back!!!!!!!!

[diesel007]

You really should put Nikon on the map.





Taken with my Nikkor 17-55mm F4.5

100% crop

[Nikki]

LOL I'm still up but I don't know what to do with all of this lens info.

[Collanrf]

Originally Posted by Buckman

Guess you cannot see the name. It is the D80.

Just saw one today for $1119. Is that cheap? DOn't know cmaera prices.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by diesel007

You really should put Nikon on the map.

Taken with my Nikkor 17-55mm F4.5

Wow. The pictures of the cameras are really nice!