[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by serge

Actually, Supras are 100lbs. lighter than 335s. It should be a very, very close race. (stock vs. stock)

Nah bro, it weighs around 3600lbs. Trust me, I have one. It was with the Targa top though, so thats probably the extra weight. Reason being that they made cars differently back then. That engine is cast iron. Heavy heavy

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by wj4

Wow, there are still stock Supras lying around?? I think it will be a driver's race honestly..at least in the straight line. If on the twisties, you will leave him way behind. Supra is the import version of Mustang, fast in straight lines, but horrible in the turns.

Unless you owned one, you dont know what you're talking about. It's not horrible when taking turns. Don't let the "BMW" mystique fool you into thinking that european cars are the only ones good enough around tracks. The Supra was ahead of it's time back then. A marvel. Problem was that it cost too much for people.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by AznBeemer23

Sorry to say the Supra's are a 6sp. I had 3 of them and wish I kept my Supra instead of selling it to get my car. I'd take my Supra and race anyone with a 335...

+1 bro

I bought the 335 because living in Germany, no one in that country knows how to work on the car if there's a major problem. Not even the toyota dealerships. It broke my heart to sell it, but it was time. When I get back to the states I am definitely getting another one. Sitting in it, the way the dash is angled towards you....you feel like a pilot on a jet fighter.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by Raider

I seriously would trade mine for a good condition 98 supra TT...those cars are priceless and will always have the bulletproof engine

+1

Actually the replacement engines aren't made in Japan anymore, they shut the plant down the same time they stopped making the car. They're made in Mexico now. Not bulletproof anymore.

I will never love my BMW as much as my Supra. Love of my life...

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by umcool911ok

The 335 should take it because well figures show stock Supra TT was about hmm like 5.6 or sometin 0-60 but I dont know about top end but still think 335 would pull away

Try 5.0sec guy

Honestly, unless you guys have owned one you have no idea, ya'll really don't.

If you see one on the road or want to race one, even if it's stock.....make sure you don't bet money. 9/10 times I'd bet on the Supra to win. Most guys that own BMW's can't drive for shit anyways.

[SpecC]

Has anyone taken into consideration that the Supra is more race tuned than the 3ers are? The gear ratios are probably more geared towards quick rather than fuel efficient. I do understand what ArmyBimmerDude is trying to say. If you've wanted one all your life and you had one, giving it up must've been like a crack addict giving away his crack to a new addict. I hope one day I can own my beloved dream car growing up too .

I had a discussion with dejav0o the other day at the meet about the E36 M3 and our 330is. Sure we have more power and torque and we're 10 years ahead of its time, but it'd still beat us in a straight line race because it's race tuned. Gear ratios matter, and they matter a lot. I say you try the race and post some results here. I'm sure ArmyBimmerDude is interested. And after reading his posts, I'm very interested to see results as well. The 335i is no pushover!

The supra always looked like a huge tank to me though. I was one of the people in the R34 GT-R crowd . Then I grew into the Evo VI and STis and stayed with the STis. I'm still there! (little disappointed in the Subarus of late, but i'm loyal)

[younghov85]

i dont really think these two cars are a good comparison, simply because the supra is a real sports car while the 335i is a sports sedan/coupe. I mean the 335i may very well win, but i think engine engineering goes to Toyota on this one. that car is over a decade old and still can beat the best our here to offer. What BMW is doing now, toyota has done a long time ago, its just that BMW is reinovating. kinda the opposite when u think of those two comapnies though??

[hks786]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

The MKIV had 320hp/315tq. In fact from that generation of turbo'd car's(3000GT VR4, 300zx, etc) it's the only one with the spec's similar to the 335. Saying you could take it without a problem is just an ignorant comment.

Totally agree with you, Supra is an old car, but not one to be underestimated ! Personally I love the Supra, the interior really lets it down, but for its age, it's body is really special ! not to mention it performs too...

edit: and I also think that it's a drivers race....

[serge]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Nah bro, it weighs around 3600lbs. Trust me, I have one. It was with the Targa top though, so thats probably the extra weight. Reason being that they made cars differently back then. That engine is cast iron. Heavy heavy

It weighs 3,505 lbs. to be exact. Most of 335s are 3,600+ lbs.; therefore the Supra is around 100lbs. lighter. ('98 model 6-speed)

http://www.**************.com/vehicl...uss092697.html

I agree with you on how people in this thread underestimate sports cars like the Supra. Comments like "it weighs too much", "it can't handle", "the automatic is faster than the 6-speed" or "it has no torque until the bigger turbo kicks in" tells us how misinformed people are. I have the feeling that there're quite a few 335s owners who used to drive underpowered cars before they got their new 335 and now they have this feeling of invincibility caused by the 335s overwhelming torque/power. Guys, there are plenty of cars out there that could blow the doors off of any 335, including Procede ones. This is not the case since we're talking about stock Supras. It should ve a close race, but good luck finding a stock Supra. This car's potential is unlimited and there are plenty of modified Supras out there (I'm not talking about the pathetic 2F2F one) with 700+ hp.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by serge

I agree with you on how people in this thread underestimate sports cars like the Supra. Comments like "it weighs too much", "it can't handle", "the automatic is faster than the 6-speed" or "it has no torque until the bigger turbo kicks in" tells us how misinformed people are.

Being that you quoted me, Ill respond.

I used to sell Toyotas back in 96-97. I drove supras all day long(when they were actually in stock at least). I can tell you that car felt like a sled. It was very heavy. At the time I had been driving a 93 300ZTT(Stillen Stage 3). I also test drove the 3000GTVR4's all the time. They were all very heavy cars putting out 300+hp. With that heavy(60lb) targa top(standard on turbos) the weight distribution made them quirky.

The automatic supra WAS quicker than the stick. Same situation as in the 335. The rears would just light up if you werent judicious on the throttle. With the auto, you just mashed the pedal and went. I used to Drag Imports and you would almost NEVER see a stick supra at the track. They were ALL autos or conversions.

They also DIDNT handle well on tight courses like an auto-x. They liked big open tracks with long turns. They pulled high numbers on the skidpad but the minute you tightened things up, the rear just pulled out like a slingshot.

So please, go drive one for yourself instead of looking back at magazine articles to get your references.

[CokerRat]

I agree with the ppl above who think its basically a dead heat.

Around a track, I suspect the Supra has the edge....keep in mind when it came out in '93 it was basically near the top of the sports car heap. It ran lap times comparable to 3rd gen RX-7's and NSXes... it was a serious piece on the track. Nice cars. I've never had the opportunity to drive one, always wanted to.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by serge

It weighs 3,505 lbs. to be exact. Most of 335s are 3,600+ lbs.; therefore the Supra is around 100lbs. lighter. ('98 model 6-speed)

http://www.**************.com/vehicl...uss092697.html

I agree with you on how people in this thread underestimate sports cars like the Supra. Comments like "it weighs too much", "it can't handle", "the automatic is faster than the 6-speed" or "it has no torque until the bigger turbo kicks in" tells us how misinformed people are. I have the feeling that there're quite a few 335s owners who used to drive underpowered cars before they got their new 335 and now they have this feeling of invincibility caused by the 335s overwhelming torque/power. Guys, there are plenty of cars out there that could blow the doors off of any 335, including Procede ones. This is not the case since we're talking about stock Supras. It should ve a close race, but good luck finding a stock Supra. This car's potential is unlimited and there are plenty of modified Supras out there (I'm not talking about the pathetic 2F2F one) with 700+ hp.

Uh yeah...I shipped the car from florida, had it for and then shipped it back a few months ago. Both documents said that it weighs approx 3600 pounds, but who cares if we dont agree on the exact weight.

I agree with your paragraph. This is a drivers race. They are very evenly matched and for anyone to come out and say that the 335 will kill it is a typical noobie poster on this website or now they are so in awe with the power of the 335 that any other car cant keep up now....plz.

By the way, you're right about being able to find a stock one nowadays....very rare.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Being that you quoted me, Ill respond.

I used to sell Toyotas back in 96-97. I drove supras all day long(when they were actually in stock at least). I can tell you that car felt like a sled. It was very heavy. At the time I had been driving a 93 300ZTT(Stillen Stage 3). I also test drove the 3000GTVR4's all the time. They were all very heavy cars putting out 300+hp. With that heavy(60lb) targa top(standard on turbos) the weight distribution made them quirky.

The automatic supra WAS quicker than the stick. Same situation as in the 335. The rears would just light up if you werent judicious on the throttle. With the auto, you just mashed the pedal and went. I used to Drag Imports and you would almost NEVER see a stick supra at the track. They were ALL autos or conversions.

They also DIDNT handle well on tight courses like an auto-x. They liked big open tracks with long turns. They pulled high numbers on the skidpad but the minute you tightened things up, the rear just pulled out like a slingshot.

So please, go drive one for yourself instead of looking back at magazine articles to get your references.

Ok first off, it was a heavy car. They made cars differently back then with steel where lighter material is nowadays. Here's a comparable list of all vehicles with the same power to weight ratio:

2006 Dodge Magnum SRT
2006 Porsche TechArt Cayman
2005 BMW M3 Competition
2004 Jaguar XKR
2004 Pontiac Gand Am Show Car
2003 BMW 330
2003 Dodge Ram SRT-10
2003 Panoz Esperante
2003 Volvo PCC2
2002 Dodge Razor
2001 Mullen M11
2001 Pontiac Trans Am
2000 Millen Tritanium
2000 Pontiac Trans Am
1997 Dodge Ram Trex
1987 Porsche 911 Turbo
1987 Porsche 930
1972 Ferrari 365 GTC/4
1971 Aston Martin DB6 MK2 Vantage Saloon
1970 Plymouth Road Runner
1968 Lamborghini Espada 400 GT S1
1968 Porsche 911 Vintage Racer
1967 Chevrolet Corvette C2
1967 ISO Grifo GL
1959 Ferrari 250 GT California LWB Spyder
1959 Ferrari 250 GT Coupe
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI

Now with the other stuff you said, you're right. When people went to drag races, there were almost no MT Supras there, all auto's because of the same problem with 335 and grip. But to say the AT was better is absurd. You're talking about a weak 4 speed AT vs. a very strong 6 speed MT. Ask any Supra owner, any REAL one who wins and they will always tell you MT, unless its at a dragstrip.

As far as drivablility, maybe for you being a carsalesman it was heavy and this and that, but to the rest of the world it was amazing. You wont find one article anywhere on the internet that said it wasnt any good.

I've had plenty of Germans and Evo owners drive mine(modded of course) and they fell in love with it. Hell the BLITZ Supra held the record for fastest lap time on the Nurnbergring.

I owned it for 5 years and I've ridden in plenty other cars, so I know what I'm talking about.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

As far as drivablility, maybe for you being a carsalesman it was heavy and this and that, but to the rest of the world it was amazing. You wont find one article anywhere on the internet that said it wasnt any good.

I've had plenty of Germans and Evo owners drive mine(modded of course) and they fell in love with it. Hell the BLITZ Supra held the record for fastest lap time on the Nurnbergring.

I owned it for 5 years and I've ridden in plenty other cars, so I know what I'm talking about.

Ok, now youre taking me out of context.

It was a GREAT car to drive. I would definitely take a manual over an automatic any day. However, when talking straight line racing(which the OP was) its an automatic race all day long. But yeah, it is still heavy compared to my 3200lb 97 M3.

I was relating that I was a salesman at the time and was able to drive it on a daily basis. I am as much an enthusiast who has been auto-xing and drag racing for over 15 yrs. Secondly, at time time it came out(93) I chose the 300z over the supra because it had more cargo space. Not because it wasnt a fun car to drive.

Stop taking what I said away from the OP's argument of who would win in a race. Straightline.

On a large track, in manual of course, the Supra would probably have it. Plus, you also said it was a Blitz(modified)Supra that has the record. Of course any modified supra is going to be wupass.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Ok, now youre taking me out of context.

It was a GREAT car to drive. I would definitely take a manual over an automatic any day. However, when talking straight line racing(which the OP was) its an automatic race all day long. But yeah, it is still heavy compared to my 3200lb 97 M3.

I was relating that I was a salesman at the time and was able to drive it on a daily basis. I am as much an enthusiast who has been auto-xing and drag racing for over 15 yrs. Secondly, at time time it came out(93) I chose the 300z over the supra because it had more cargo space. Not because it wasnt a fun car to drive.

Stop taking what I said away from the OP's argument of who would win in a race. Straightline.

On a large track, in manual of course, the Supra would probably have it. Plus, you also said it was a Blitz(modified)Supra that has the record. Of course any modified supra is going to be wupass.

Yeah, thats probably the one thing I couldnt stand with the car. The fact that Toyota forgot to give it a trunk.

You're right, it was/is heavy compared to cars nowadays. I guess we're gonna keep on disagreeing on the straight line thing, but thats ok. I would love to see a video of the two racing each other. I think that would be cool.

I wish I had my car back. But if I did, I wouldnt have my 335.

[serge]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Being that you quoted me, Ill respond.

I used to sell Toyotas back in 96-97. I drove supras all day long(when they were actually in stock at least). I can tell you that car felt like a sled. It was very heavy. At the time I had been driving a 93 300ZTT(Stillen Stage 3). I also test drove the 3000GTVR4's all the time. They were all very heavy cars putting out 300+hp. With that heavy(60lb) targa top(standard on turbos) the weight distribution made them quirky.

The automatic supra WAS quicker than the stick. Same situation as in the 335. The rears would just light up if you werent judicious on the throttle. With the auto, you just mashed the pedal and went. I used to Drag Imports and you would almost NEVER see a stick supra at the track. They were ALL autos or conversions.

They also DIDNT handle well on tight courses like an auto-x. They liked big open tracks with long turns. They pulled high numbers on the skidpad but the minute you tightened things up, the rear just pulled out like a slingshot.

So please, go drive one for yourself instead of looking back at magazine articles to get your references.

FYI, been there, done that, ok?

I test drove a 6-speed manual and an automatic Supra a few years ago (both 95 models, bone stock) and the manual felt way, way faster than the auto. On top of that, I didn't experience any of the traction issues you mentioned, and believe me, I drove it like I stole it.

Like you, I'm a car enthusiast and I've driven plenty of exotic cars throughout my life: ZX TTs, 3000GT VR4s (owned one), Porsche Carrera 4s, C4-C5-C6 Vettes, etc, and yet, I will continue to rely on automobile publications for references on specific vehicles. There're plenty of people out there who did not get the chance to drive rare cars like the Supra. Are you trying to tell me that they can't share their opinion because they didn't drive it?

This exert was taken from the same link I posted yesterday:

PERFORMANCE: The 3.0-liter twincam inline six in the 1997 Supra Turbo has dual sequential turbochargers. What this means is plenty of flexible power with little turbo lag. The first turbo spools up at low engine speeds for quick throttle response. The second comes in at higher speeds with a feeling like rocket stage separation. There is a slight hesitation in acceleration, then the car really takes off. The six- speed gearbox makes the Supra Turbo a little quicker and much more enjoyable. There is no shortage of power, and plenty of torque, so the 4-speed electronically-controlled automatic will work well, although with some performance compromise.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by serge

Are you trying to tell me that they can't share their opinion because they didn't drive it?

Not at all. Opinions are like assholes, everyone seems to be one. Regardless, you cant call it an opinion when they are just quoting facts. If you never drove (insert car here) how can you possibly be taken seriously as to how you think it feels?

If YOU drove it personally then great, fine, dandy. Your opinions are your opinions and Im not trying to discredit you. Enjoy the drive man.

[batlin]

Wow, I didnt realize i would stir up a thread with this one!
Thank you all for all the info.. this is great...

FYI, we are both stock, both MT
He seems to think I would win.. but i also think it might be a drivers race.. and in that point i really dont know which one of us is better, he has been driving sports cars longer then me, so i am sure it might be him.....

[TheAcAvenger]

Whoa whoa whoa. Back the truck up. Your friend has a STOCK supra!? That's almost unheard of. He could sell it for loads if it were a relatively low mileage MT. And by alot, i mean i've seen them going for 40k.

Heh, is he selling? willing to trade?!

[94JZA80]

well i got about half way through this thread when i finally decided to skip to the end and clear up the massive amount of MISinformation i saw in the first half of this thread...

Originally Posted by Josh49

I'd say with those two cars, it'd be a drivers race..

first of all, this guy said it best and simplest...but i'll elaborate - a drag race is a driver's race. on a road course/circuit, the Supra will outhandle.

Originally Posted by wj4

I think it will be a driver's race honestly..at least in the straight line. If on the twisties, you will leave him way behind. Supra is the import version of Mustang, fast in straight lines, but horrible in the turns.

Originally Posted by Pimp Star

I think that if it was a flatout drag race it'd be close, but if the "course" has twists and turns then the race would be won by the 335i, no doubt.

if a Supra is every bit as good as an e46 M3 in the twisties, then it would follow that the MKIV Supra > 335i in the twisties. where do you guys get your logic from?

Originally Posted by E90330iS

I'm sure the 6 speed on the 335i gearing is a huge advantage compared to the ancient 5 speed offered by the Supra more than a decade ago!

the Supra Turbo came with a 6MT. only the non-turbo models came with a 5MT.

Originally Posted by HyperM3

With that heavy(60lb) targa top(standard on turbos) the weight distribution made them quirky.

the targa top does not weigh 60lbs. yes, the Supra Targas had additional frame strengthening steel located high in the chassis, which did add weight and raise the COG, but if i can lift and remove the tagra top myself, it most certainly does not weigh 60lbs.

Originally Posted by HyperM3

The automatic supra WAS quicker than the stick ON AVERAGE in the 1/4 mile.

fixed...there are quite a few gifted individuals who can drive their 6MT down the strip just as well as their auto-tranny counterparts.

[spacedogg]

Now I'm daydreaming about the new Supra...in fact either the new Skyline or Supra...when they come out in the next year or so...it's going to send a lot of car owners into a tail spin.

And 335i owners will revert back to saying how great their car is...even though it isn't as fast as the Skyline or Supra...

I'm just trying not to be jealous of the 335i owners now...I'll probably keep my slowass 325i until I figure out what car I want next...

[ukthunderace]

All of you saying that the BMW would walk away in the curves...I wouldn't be so sure of that at all. The Supra was and is a very good handling car. Car & Driver's slalom results were 68mph and skidpad of .88g. The 335i comes in at 69mph and .88g as well. I don't really see the Supra being left for dead...this would be a serious driver's race.