[ptack]

They are definitely flying in the face of convensional wisdom. As Questforpower pointed out, VW failed big time with the Phaeton in the US just as expected by everyone except VW. The main problem is that they refused to understand that US consumers who are thinking of investing a lot of money in a luxury car want a luxury reputation and expect a luxury experienece. VW dealers offered neither in the US, nor do Hyundai dealers. In strictly practical terms, spending over $50k on a sedan is not a rational decision. It's an emotional one and I don't think Hyundai is remotely prepared to cater to a very different set of demands. They do a great job appealing to value shoppers. Those folks don't go into the Mercedes dealerships looking for new cars and Mercedes customers don't test drive Sonatas. Neither customer is looking for what the other brand is known for.

For this to work, Hyundai has under cut their competitors by so much that that's the story itself. They take losses on the car just to get into the market, but it's not clear how that will lead to profits if the main selling point for Hyundai remains value. Luxury is not about value. You can't be be both things in the minds of the US car-buying public and you can't be both things in terms of dealerships, the practical and financial structures are different.

[mtla4]

Lets see.... Honda-Toyota-Infiniti did it right and seperated their luxury line from regular cars.

While Mazda with the 929-Millenia failed because they pulled the plug on it's Amati division before it even started. Dealers were ready to open and then bang last minute plan....they pulled the plug.

Same thing will happen with luxury Hyundais on the other hand Hyundai doesn't care since they did not develop these cars only for America. They probably sell tons of these elsewhere and couldnt careless about America just slap 1 or 2 here on the boat among Accent-Elantra-Sonata.

[miktrebla09]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I sat in one and for a Korean car it was very impressive. This is all that I can say...

Then I saw the price tag say $66K and I said thank you very much. It's easy to put a high price tag on a car and make everything look nice but making something "cool" or "valuable" in the eyes of others is priceless. Then making everything flow together and feel "right" just as Benz / BMW / Lexus do is something that takes years of time and not a reproduction of a competitors car.

This car will be a failure; that is an absolute guarantee because no one in their right mind will buy this car when there are other luxury marques available as alternatives. Volkswagen made the Phaeteon and it sold like 1000 cars in the US.

The Genesis brand should have been made as a seperate brand with prices in the 50K range... After years and years of developing a great US dealer network, reliability and proper luxury car brand image, it would take off. This however does not happen overnight.

Hyundai should stay with making economy cars and midsize vehicles - they do this excellent; the new Sonata and Elantra are excellent cars when compared to their competition - Honda and Toyota. The Equus is dump when compared to an S class / 7 series of Lexus LS.

Yes, "I sat in one" gives a great impression on the driving dynamics, noise isolation, driver and passenger coddling, real world application/use of features, etc. I bought my M3 because of the awesome experience I had after "I sat in one."

This car was never supposed to be a revenue driver in the US market. It's simply a display of the capabilities that hyundai (dismissed by many americans, like many on this board, as "that brand" that made exploding Ponys back in the 80's) can make a luxo barge-competing car.

VW's failure was misunderanding their target market. They sold Phaetons that topped 100K in certain trims. They also sold these in the same showrooms next to sub20K golfs, jettas, etc. hyundai has addressed this by bringing the car to you for a test drive and offering complimentary valet for when serving the car - the equus owner never has to rub elbows with those of an accent owner.

Thus far, hyundai has sold 1991 units in the US this year - 5% of the luxo barge market. To put that into perspective, they managed to outsell Jaguar's XJ, Audi A8s, merc's CLS, Acura's RL in certain months. For a car maker that's derided as prodominently an econobox manufacturer, that's a success in my book.

Looking at this car from a price perspective, the Signature trim costs just slightly north of a fully loaded E90. Not to mention, the equus is predicted to hold its value better than an S or 7er.

I've spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of one (my dad has a couple for his company use). As a luxury cruiser, I can't find a sound argument that my wife's W212 E350 sport is worth 3-4K more than the Equus - badge aside of course.


JD Powers APEAL award winner:
http://www.theweeklydriver.com/hyund...um-car-honors/

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by miktrebla09

Yes, "I sat in one" gives a great impression on the driving dynamics, noise isolation, driver and passenger coddling, real world application/use of features, etc. I bought my M3 because of the awesome experience I had after "I sat in one."

If sitting in one doesn't tingle your blood, then you should never even have to go as far as driving it. When I sit in an M3, I feel right at home and that interior makes me want to make it drive.


This car was never supposed to be a revenue driver in the US market. It's simply a display of the capabilities that hyundai (dismissed by many americans, like many on this board, as "that brand" that made exploding Ponys back in the 80's) can make a luxo barge-competing car.

VW's failure was misunderanding their target market. They sold Phaetons that topped 100K in certain trims. They also sold these in the same showrooms next to sub20K golfs, jettas, etc. hyundai has addressed this by bringing the car to you for a test drive and offering complimentary valet for when serving the car - the equus owner never has to rub elbows with those of an accent owner.


Not sure how Hyundai is doing this differently? The cars are still sold at Hyundai dealerships and serviced by the same techs that work on 12K cars.

Thus far, hyundai has sold 1991 units in the US this year - 5% of the luxo barge market. To put that into perspective, they managed to outsell Jaguar's XJ, Audi A8s, merc's CLS, Acura's RL in certain months. For a car maker that's derided as prodominently an econobox manufacturer, that's a success in my book.

Compare sales to a Lexus LS / 7 series or S class, the above mentioned vehicles have never sold well in the US and as well lie in a niche market.

Looking at this car from a price perspective, the Signature trim costs just slightly north of a fully loaded E90. Not to mention, the equus is predicted to hold its value better than an S or 7er.

This will shock me beyond belief, look at any year old Hyundai and see what happens to the value. Now, if you're going by the fact that the Hyundai is cheaper than the latter then that is to be expected, it is a less expensive car in the first place so naturally it will devalue less.

I've spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of one (my dad has a couple for his company use). As a luxury cruiser, I can't find a sound argument that my wife's W212 E350 sport is worth 3-4K more than the Equus - badge aside of course.

It is unfortunate, but this alone is worth 10-15K in many people's minds, an MB is recognized worldwide as a luxo brand even in the most lost of places, Hyundai is not.

JD Powers APEAL award winner:
http://www.theweeklydriver.com/hyund...um-car-honors/

Qualit and JD award does not mean the car will be a top seller. I return to my previous statement where I believe this will go down like the VW Phaeteon. It takes years to build a reputation and brand as a luxo brand and it has to be done differently... take my advice Hyundai it will help you in many years to come

[Never-Enough]

I sat in one on Saturday. That is not a $60k car. Not even close. The navi knob is on the center console like BMW, but it felt like it was going to break off in my hand. The hood ornament is stupid as hell. The look & feel of the interior was not that of a $60k car...

[miktrebla09]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

Qualit and JD award does not mean the car will be a top seller. I return to my previous statement where I believe this will go down like the VW Phaeteon. It takes years to build a reputation and brand as a luxo brand and it has to be done differently... take my advice Hyundai it will help you in many years to come

You're working under the presupposition that hyundai is intending this model to be a revenue generator (much like VW did with the phaeton). My point was it's not and you're not correct in comparing this with the Phaeton. It's NOT meant to be a big seller - hyundai themselves acknowledge this. (not to mention the slew of other reasons I mentioned before regarding the VW's price being ON PAR or HIGHER than those of the big boy's barges, etc). Despite this, teh equus has sold pretty well - 5% of the large luxury car market shared with the benz S, bmw 7, audi a8, etc.. Not bad for a statement/marketing ploy. Again, for hyundai to do this, that's a success in my book.

Not sure how Hyundai is doing this differently? The cars are still sold at Hyundai dealerships and serviced by the same techs that work on 12K cars.

I do not recall vw offering valet services for prospective phaeton owners...for test drives and service. My point is, an equus owner will never have to step foot in a hyundai dealership and mingle with the accent owners. Granted, this is a band aid resolution for the challenge hyundai will face but can be resolved with a fresh dealer network if they were to start a new luxury line.

This will shock me beyond belief, look at any year old Hyundai and see what happens to the value. Now, if you're going by the fact that the Hyundai is cheaper than the latter then that is to be expected, it is a less expensive car in the first place so naturally it will devalue less.

I'm referring to relative value, not nominal terms (I've never heard of anyone speak of residuals in terms of dollar amounts when comparing cars to their peers). Automotive Lease Guide rates the Equus higher than Merc S, BMW 7, and Audi's A8...again, retained residuals in percentages.

It is unfortunate, but this alone is worth 10-15K in many people's minds, an MB is recognized worldwide as a luxo brand even in the most lost of places, Hyundai is not.

Valid point, but same was true when Lexus first introduced the LS400. I'm interested to see what hyundai does this next 5-10 years.

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by miktrebla09

I question how many of those who dismiss this car as another knockoff have actually spent time behind the wheel. It's a hell of a cruiser.

oh, and this:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

Did you (or anybody) actually read the entire article you posted?

They gave it big negatives for the materials including the seat leather. Their bottom line was that it's a very good "clone car" as far as clones go.

This car will no doubt sell really, really well in China.

[gun6slinger9]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

Did you (or anybody) actually read the entire article you posted?

They gave it big negatives for the materials including the seat leather. Their bottom line was that it's a very good "clone car" as far as clones go.

This car will no doubt sell really, really well in China.

Not sure why you would say China when branding and image is more important there than North America.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

They gave it big negatives for the materials including the seat leather. Their bottom line was that it's a very good "clone car" as far as clones go.

If the seats are anything like those in the Genesis sedan they are a massive fail. The seats were the most uncomfortable seats I have ever had the misfortune of driving.

No matter what we did, we could not find a comfortable position. Horrible.

[vioaltec]

The best thing to come out of Korea is "Asiana" nothing else. And people who are willing to spend that much on a hyudai obviously knows jack shit about luxury brands

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by gun6slinger9

Not sure why you would say China when branding and image is more important there than North America.

Are you kidding? The Chinese love clones. And it's all about image.

But the bigger point is that China is the market focus now. It's where the auto mfg sales growth is being made.

[DASHOCKER]

I saw the Eqqus for the first time on the road on Friday on the Cross Island Pkwy in NY. The car looks like an S class. It is huge and has road presence. Excellent job Hyundai.

[Litos]

i love how people bash Hyundai and Kia.

those guys are running the table now.

they make some great vehicles with standard options that BMW/Merc would dream of having......

[Pangloss]

Like what?

[adrian1480]

Originally Posted by Litos

i love how people bash Hyundai and Kia.

those guys are running the table now.

they make some great vehicles with standard options that BMW/Merc would dream of having......

joke post?

[Litos]

Originally Posted by adrian1480

joke post?

look it up........

[jkrig]

Originally Posted by Litos

i love how people bash Hyundai and Kia.

those guys are running the table now.

they make some great vehicles with standard options that BMW/Merc would dream of having......

Joke post or not....thats kinda what Hyundai is doing..you are gettin more for less and they are standing behind their pruducts with fairly comprehence warranties, that been Hyundais strategy as of late I for one say keep it up, could force other brands to do the same.......walk into a BMW/Merc/Audi dealership, ....with 64k and see what you can walk away with, Fully loaded 528, E350, A6 at best, so is it less car than a 7 or an S in terms of fit/finish/feel...sure, but it priced accordingly, had it been priced near the 7 and S then I'd call em lunatics.......