[tranquility]

Ya, I didn't like the CGT's design too much but the 918 is almost near perfection. Finally a design from Porsche that is sleeker than its Italian competition.

[PINeely]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I dunno, I guess it's a different approach but BMW's prestige is at least on the same level as MB and Audi and I was hoping that they would have a supercar to show their 'stuff'. The i8 doesn't really do it imho.

Fair point; BMW has the big performance cars but they are all, well, big. A lightweight mid engine would be pretty cool to see how they'd do it.

[xsilvor]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

R8
AWD= boring
Design= boring
V8= boring
V10=more exciting
overall R8=boring

[xsilvor]

Doesn't cut it?

[IMG]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Personally I dont like the styling of the Carrera GT too much. Its too empty at the back.

Originally Posted by tranquility

Ya, I didn't like the CGT's design too much but the 918 is almost near perfection. Finally a design from Porsche that is sleeker than its Italian competition.

The Carrera GT was a great looking car. Far better than the Enzo and the SLR McL, and it sounded better than either of those two as well, and obviously performance was incredible (the other two were as well).
The 918 is definitely a better design and as good or better than anything italian. Porsche can make a better looking car, but the bread and butter will always be the iconic 911 and nothing will change that. It would be ideal to see them continuously make a top end range car that is not the GT2/3/RS that outdoes everything on the market in only a way we know they can.

As far as making a sleeker design, again, the 911 is THE single most recognizable car on the market. Everyone knows what it is, and you wont mistake it for anything else. Ill take a little less flashiness for a car you know will peform all day no matter what you throw at it.

[tranquility]

No, the Z8 doesn't cut it for me.

The 911 is so boring and played out. I'm hoping that Porsche eventually dumps the rear-engine design and admit that it's better in the middle. The CGT definitely looked better than the stale 911 but the 918 is way better in all depts. The 911 is getting larger (again) and pretty soon it'll probably turn into a Panamera. I hate how Porsche intentionally underpowers the Cayman and makes it look less attractive just to keep the 911 as its top model.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by tranquility

No, the Z8 doesn't cut it for me.

The 911 is so boring and played out. I'm hoping that Porsche eventually dumps the rear-engine design and admit that it's better in the middle. The CGT definitely looked better than the stale 911 but the 918 is way better in all depts. The 911 is getting larger (again) and pretty soon it'll probably turn into a Panamera. I hate how Porsche intentionally underpowers the Cayman and makes it look less attractive just to keep the 911 as its top model.

Well, as you can see with the 991, its becoming more of a mid engined car. All reviews so far have said the car is very forgiving and doesnt drive like 911s of the past (up the the 997.2) and drives the way the GTx Porsche do, with such dialed in suspension geometry they are stunning to drive as all Porsches are.
Despite the 911 being a little longer, they are wider, lower and yet LIGHTER. At 3200 lbs, that is very light. The mere fact that the 991 S at 3200 lbs and 400 hp is as fast as the 458 italia at 3400 lbs and 570 hp on the Ring shows you just how good the new 911 is. It is an entry level Porsche too.
Again, the 911 is probably the most distinguishable car in history, and is the most successful in racing, so why would Porsche want to mess with near perfection? The styling is still one of the best looking cars on the road and they continue to astonish the world with their superior engineering every time they make a new generation (991), or a new King of the Super Sedans (Panamera), or the best SUV on the market (cayenne), or the best handling car at any price point (cayman and boxster). Despite seeing them push the envelope each time, they find a way to push it further and do things no one else could do and do what you didnt think they could.

[immiketoo]

The M1 concept in Munich could do the trick if they would produce it with all the modern goodies. Bottom line, BMW isn't interested. The 918 only has about 900 orders worldwide, so it's not like they are going to get rich selling that car. BMW probably knows this and has better ways to spend their money.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

The M1 concept in Munich could do the trick if they would produce it with all the modern goodies. Bottom line, BMW isn't interested. The 918 only has about 900 orders worldwide, so it's not like they are going to get rich selling that car. BMW probably knows this and has better ways to spend their money.

No, Porsche is no going to get rich selling it, (the 918 cars sold out almost before they went on sale though) but they are showcasing the fact that they have the best engineers in the world. Not only pushing technologies of the future, but showing one of the best V8s ever built and proving a car can be of epic performance (probably an understament) but still be enviro friendly, since that is where all cars are headed.
Its the same reason they have the GT3 R Hybrid already in racing. When racing requires the use of hydrib technology they will be multiple steps ahead of the competition as they have been for 50 years and running.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by xsilvor

Ok as far as super cars go its design is very boring. AWD isn't anywhere near 1/2 the fun RWD can be. Are you seriously going say that you would rather have an R8 over a 458 Italia, DBS, 911 GT3, 911 GT2, or MP4-12C?

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by img

Well, as you can see with the 991, its becoming more of a mid engined car. All reviews so far have said the car is very forgiving and doesnt drive like 911s of the past (up the the 997.2) and drives the way the GTx Porsche do, with such dialed in suspension geometry they are stunning to drive as all Porsches are.
Despite the 911 being a little longer, they are wider, lower and yet LIGHTER. At 3200 lbs, that is very light. The mere fact that the 991 S at 3200 lbs and 400 hp is as fast as the 458 italia at 3400 lbs and 570 hp on the Ring shows you just how good the new 911 is. It is an entry level Porsche too.
Again, the 911 is probably the most distinguishable car in history, and is the most successful in racing, so why would Porsche want to mess with near perfection? The styling is still one of the best looking cars on the road and they continue to astonish the world with their superior engineering every time they make a new generation (991), or a new King of the Super Sedans (Panamera), or the best SUV on the market (cayenne), or the best handling car at any price point (cayman and boxster). Despite seeing them push the envelope each time, they find a way to push it further and do things no one else could do and do what you didnt think they could.

Do you own stock in Porsche (or VW)? LOL. I don't like the direction the 911, and, generally the car company, is going. Imo it's a nice design but definitely not one of the best-looking: it's very generic by now. They're still tinkering w/ an old design and it's still rear-engined.

[BIMMERGUY91]

the 911 will ALWAYS be rear engine. The 911 is Porsches icon and their main stake in the market. All the purists would shit in their little panties if they went mid engine with the 911.

[tranquility]

^Not saying chg the 911 to mid-engined, just for the company to admit that it's a design past its prime and to have a new model (a la CGT/918) w/ a mid-engined setup to be its top commercial model. Not holding my breath though.

[MisterSkiMask]

Who cares, even if they do build one, they won't be able to sell it. A super car is not what the market wants from BMW.

The Z8 is a novelty car, is cool and I like to see them around, but it's little more then a design study.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by tranquility

^Not saying chg the 911 to mid-engined, just for the company to admit that it's a design past its prime and to have a new model (a la CGT/918) w/ a mid-engined setup to be its top commercial model. Not holding my breath though.

Rumor has it that Porsche is developing a mid engine car to slot between the gt2 and 918 to kill the 458, platform sharing with future r8. Should be interesting.

[Elie335]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

If an R8 V10 doesn't have the wow factor for you then maybe you just haven't been up close to one nor driven one. That car is superb; the engine and tranny are out of the Gallardo and the sound / build quality is stunning.

I agree with all the posters above, R8 is a super ugly boring super car. I would take any car on the same level anyday over the R8

[IMG]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Do you own stock in Porsche (or VW)? LOL. I don't like the direction the 911, and, generally the car company, is going. Imo it's a nice design but definitely not one of the best-looking: it's very generic by now. They're still tinkering w/ an old design and it's still rear-engined.

You can think whatever you want. Porsche still dominates the racing world, and they are the benchmark in every segment their cars compete in. They are some of the, if not the best and most highly engineered cars in the world.
Their direction is probably the closest to its orignal roots of any car maker you can find. Light, nimble, organic cars that offer high strung NA engines with 6mt, excite on all levels and are performance benchmarks. There is a reason the 911 has been the yardstick to which every car has been compared for 50+ years, and that will continue on for as long as they keep making them.
And the 911 surely is one of the best looking cars IMO. Maybe you dont like evolution of design, but, again, no other car is as iconic and memorable in history.
Again, it may not be called a mid engined car, but its just about that way now.


On a side note, you must really hate the direction BMW is going as their cars only keep getting uglier, bigger and less fun to drive. Just go drive a z4m and then drive your z4, and youll see how sloppy and lazy your car feels in comparison. It cant even begin to what Porsche offers in the segment (boxster s).

And, Porsche is supposed to come out with a range topping car in a few years, as I think they should always have one car like that at any given time.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by BIMMERGUY91

the 911 will ALWAYS be rear engine. The 911 is Porsches icon and their main stake in the market. All the purists would shit in their little panties if they went mid engine with the 911.

They may never call it mid engined, but its pretty damn close to that with the 991.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by img

You can think whatever you want. Porsche still dominates the racing world, and they are the benchmark in every segment their cars compete in. They are some of the, if not the best and most highly engineered cars in the world.
Their direction is probably the closest to its orignal roots of any car maker you can find. Light, nimble, organic cars that offer high strung NA engines with 6mt, excite on all levels and are performance benchmarks. There is a reason the 911 has been the yardstick to which every car has been compared for 50+ years, and that will continue on for as long as they keep making them.
And the 911 surely is one of the best looking cars IMO. Maybe you dont like evolution of design, but, again, no other car is as iconic and memorable in history.
Again, it may not be called a mid engined car, but its just about that way now.


On a side note, you must really hate the direction BMW is going as their cars only keep getting uglier, bigger and less fun to drive. Just go drive a z4m and then drive your z4, and youll see how sloppy and lazy your car feels in comparison. It cant even begin to what Porsche offers in the segment (boxster s).

And, Porsche is supposed to come out with a range topping car in a few years, as I think they should always have one car like that at any given time.

Chill dude, we all know by now that you're a P-car fanboy, but there's no need to rag on our E89s. This has been discussed ad naseum: the new Z4 is definitely geared towards a different mkt. I don't spend everyday at the track and its definitely a better all-rounder and better looking imo.

The 911 is still ho-hum to me. Of course it's iconic, it's the same model lying around for almost 50 yrs and they haven't changed anything significant about it (just minor tweaks here and there from model to model - disclaimer: of course it changed over the whole lifespan, but from MY to MY, their engineers/designers have to be some of the laziest ppl in the industry).

Now back on topic.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Chill dude, we all know by now that you're a P-car fanboy, but there's no need to rag on our E89s. This has been discussed ad naseum: the new Z4 is definitely geared towards a different mkt. I don't spend everyday at the track and its definitely a better all-rounder and better looking imo.

The 911 is still ho-hum to me. Of course it's iconic, it's the same model lying around for almost 50 yrs and they haven't changed anything significant about it (just minor tweaks here and there from model to model - disclaimer: of course it changed over the whole lifespan, but from MY to MY, their engineers/designers have to be some of the laziest ppl in the industry).

Now back on topic.

Lazy? LOL.

The 911 has been beyond successful, why should they change the design and alienate/polarize people who love the classic never out of style shape?
The engineering is there in spades as anyone who knows Porsche or owned one (I qualify as both) can attest to.
The engineers and designers are anything but lazy. They have been able to continue using the flat 6 engine for 50 years whereas most of manuf. have had to move from 6 cylinders to 8 to 10 even The RS 4.0 is engineering at its best, both car and engine. They test and overengineer probably more than any other manuf. in the industry. How do you think theyve been able to keep the car fresh (design wise) and continue to be the benchmark car (performance and driving) everyone wants to emulate? Its due to superior engineering.
Did you know synchro mesh was invented by Porsche? Did you know the transmission of the future, the dual clutch transmission was also invented by Porsche over 20 years ago. I highly doubt that you can call them lazy when the auto industry as a whole has benefited from the fact that they have the best engineers in the world.

Now that youve hopefully learned something, back on topic.

And I didnt mean to rag on the z4 intentionally, its a nice car (no boxster of course), but my comment was more based on the direction bmw is going.

[esqu1re]

OP, i8. Maybe an i8M in the future?

[tranquility]

Blah, I never liked Porsche's direction but now they are finally showing promise w/ the 918. The Boxster looks homely compared to the Z4, despite its performance characteristics; I considered the Cayman before deciding upon the Z.

Anyway, finally back on topic. Well, the i8 is supposedly featured in the latest MI movie, should be interesting.