[O-cha]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

You'll go poor from shooting an M1 for fun.

Mil surplus.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by O-cha

No shit full autos for fun, so is buying a semi auto rifle, you can't use them for hunting, they have no "utility" either. So why buy an ak or ar15 that shoots little baby rounds, that's boring as hell.

Might as well get something with a little style and oomf.

In your opinion, they (AR-15s) have no utility. (Apparently "oomph" and "hunting" are the only two possible purposes of rifles.) If I wanted some more "oomph" with my AR, I'd slap a 300BLK upper on it and have some fun. At 300 meters, the 300BLK has around 15-16% more energy than the 7.62x39 (AK) round. It's basically a cut down .223 casing with an AK bullet shoved in it.

The AR-15/M4 is arguably the most popular rifle platform in use today (at least in the United States). The M4 carbine is used by the U.S. military, countless law enforcement agencies across the country, and hundreds of thousands of civilians.

You know, some people train with their weapons/attend classes (like some members here track their cars), set them up to be home defense weapons, etc. and do not just go out in their backyard and shoot at coke cans 15 feet away once or twice a month.

The 5.56/.223 isn't a large round but it is still very effective/lethal out to about 500 yards.

Go spend about 5 hours over here: www.m4carbine.net and learn a little about the platform before you make yourself look silly.

And most importantly, to each his own.

P.S. - I enjoy all firearms. Nice M1.

[Rotorocious]

Saiga 12

[immiketoo]

Yibbiz, thank you for saving me all the trouble replying to O-Cha. Unless you are providing cover fire and get ammo handed to you by the government, zombies are really the only other use for full auto. It can be controlled (I can put a full 30 round magazine in a fist sized hole at 50 feet), but the cost to become proficient is high.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

Yibbiz, thank you for saving me all the trouble replying to O-Cha. Unless you are providing cover fire and get ammo handed to you by the government, zombies are really the only other use for full auto. It can be controlled (I can put a full 30 round magazine in a fist sized hole at 50 feet), but the cost to become proficient is high.

My pleasure sir. It's truly amazing how fast 30 rounds can disappear with a single prolonged squeeze of the trigger.

What do you have access to in terms of a duty weapon?

[MisterSkiMask]

It doesn't really matter what your first gun is, you'll buy another one soon enough.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

Yibbiz, thank you for saving me all the trouble replying to O-Cha. Unless you are providing cover fire and get ammo handed to you by the government, zombies are really the only other use for full auto. It can be controlled (I can put a full 30 round magazine in a fist sized hole at 50 feet), but the cost to become proficient is high.

You seem to think I said full auto was anything other then a neat thing for fun. I did not. My point was guns like an ak or ar15 are boring without full auto, all you have is a semi auto rifle with small cartridges that you can waste your money blinging out with "tactical" hand guards and tactical lights you'll never use. No civilians use ar15s for home defense, that's ridiculous.

If you are going for the pinnacle of accuracy, neither is appropriate, you would get a bench rest bolt action. So what you have is a semi auto rifle you take to the range to have some fun with. I believe an M1 with iron sights and some history behind it is way more fun and interesting to shoot.

The conversation was what rifle to buy I shared my opinion, disagreeing with it is pointless, it's an opinion.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by HaveQuick

I'm a pats fan. I lost a bet.

Same. Damn Pats let me down.

Originally Posted by Express

pretty sure your first gun should not be an AR or an AK.

you have a little bit of learning to do.

If this is your first weapon, and you plan to learn exclusively yourself, I don't think an AR or AK are good first choices.

Originally Posted by zeenon53

Eventually I plan on having a nice collection of all sorts of guns. The main purpose of my first gun will be for home protection and taking to the range for fun.

A 9mm handgun will do all of your purposes well. I went with a Ruger SR9C for both home defense, range time, and concealed carry. It does all of those things well. I chose it over others because it's striker fired, has a manual and a trigger safety, and a loaded chamber indicator that was easy to identify quickly. I keep it loaded with hallowpoints (~$20 for 20 rounds) for home defense and ~$11 for 50 FMJs for range time.

As discussed, a rifle will overpenetrate if you miss and you're much more likely to wound or kill a loved one or neighbor. A shotgun is not a good range weapon, so a 9mm with good ammo will do everything you want well. After reading everything there was to read in the discussion of caliber, the resounding fact was that there is little difference in real world stopping power between calibers and shot placement is the number 1 factor. Of the calibers, a .40 was the best of both worlds in regards to handgun calibers. Ruger makes the SR40c, and if it had been available when I bought my 9, I might've gone that route. I find little difference in recoil between a 9mm and 40, but I've never fired a subcompact 40 and that might change my opinion. I plan to rent one at the range the next time I go for a direct perceived feel comparison while shooting, but take that information with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions on the matter.

Originally Posted by zeenon53

There is an outdoor range close to me. There is also the local gun club.

I'd still get a handgun over a rifle for your first. Work on fundementals, and then move to a rifle. Especially for your purposes.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by O-cha

You seem to think I said full auto was anything other then a neat thing for fun. I did not. My point was guns like an ak or ar15 are boring without full auto, all you have is a semi auto rifle with small cartridges that you can waste your money blinging out with "tactical" hand guards and tactical lights you'll never use. No civilians use ar15s for home defense, that's ridiculous.

If you are going for the pinnacle of accuracy, neither is appropriate, you would get a bench rest bolt action. So what you have is a semi auto rifle you take to the range to have some fun with. I believe an M1 with iron sights and some history behind it is way more fun and interesting to shoot.

The conversation was what rifle to buy I shared my opinion, disagreeing with it is pointless, it's an opinion.

Actually, a suppressed SBR (sub-16 in. barrel AR) with the proper ammunition can be quite handy for home defense. Lights and all the other "tactical" components you mention are a must for those who shoot for sport - in competition and/or advanced carbine classes for people who want to become better, more skilled shooters. This equipment is necessary to perform.

Have you shot an AR?

Gotta go. Taking my Model T around the block today.

[zeenon53]

Part of the reason i lean towards a rifle first is because my wife would like to have one before a handgun. It's a battle I am willing to lose....lol. When I went shooting with her, her favorite gun was the revolver. Mine was the 1911. We also shot a 12 gauge shot gun, and a small 22 rifle.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by zeenon53

Part of the reason i lean towards a rifle first is because my wife would like to have one before a handgun. It's a battle I am willing to lose....lol. When I went shooting with her, her favorite gun was the revolver. Mine was the 1911. We also shot a 12 gauge shot gun, and a small 22 rifle.

Rifles are fun for the range, and throwing wrestling asians off your lawn, but they're not very good or practical for home defense. Their length makes them problematic when going around corners, and the caliber tends to overpenatrate. Then again, I have plenty of friends who call their handgun their "buy-me-time-to-get-to-the-gun-safe" weapon.

[Mr Tonka]

A rifle or shotgun is perfect for first firearm. I'm sure statistics show that accidents happen more frequently with handguns than long guns.

I personally think that you should have a long gun first. Something that doesn't come out of the closet until you are headed to the range to shoot it. Once you develop respect and familiarity with firearms and the rules that go with them; go ahead and get a hand gun. Until then, get a rifle or a shotgun. Have fun at the range where you can get comfortable with them under supervision. When you're ready, you and the wife will be able to demo different handguns at the range and get something once you have developed your taste in firearms.

Have fun, take a firearms safety & handling class, shoot safe.

Home defense: With your limited weapon handling skills at this time, you really can't beat a shot gun for effectiveness... or intimidation for that matter.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Actually, a suppressed SBR (sub-16 in. barrel AR) with the proper ammunition can be quite handy for home defense.

This is so many kind of wrong, I'm not even going to argue.

Originally Posted by MP0WER

A rifle or shotgun is perfect for first firearm. I'm sure statistics show that accidents happen more frequently with handguns than long guns.

I personally think that you should have a long gun first. Something that doesn't come out of the closet until you are headed to the range to shoot it. Once you develop respect and familiarity with firearms and the rules that go with them; go ahead and get a hand gun. Until then, get a rifle or a shotgun. Have fun at the range where you can get comfortable with them under supervision. When you're ready, you and the wife will be able to demo different handguns at the range and get something once you have developed your taste in firearms.

Have fun, take a firearms safety & handling class, shoot safe.

Home defense: With your limited weapon handling skills at this time, you really can't beat a shot gun for effectiveness... or intimidation for that matter.

While a rifle is a dumb home defense weapon, I can still see the merit in this statement. I'm sort of comfortable next to a new person shooting a rifle on an open firing line, but I refuse to line up with other people I don't know using handguns, let alone someone who is just starting to shoot with one. I'll stick to the nice bulletproof lanes at the indoor range when around people shooting handguns. Too easy for some moron to accidentally shoot you racking his slide sideways or picking up/putting down his firearm.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by O-cha

This is so many kind of wrong, I'm not even going to argue.

Take your best shot.

[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by O-cha

This is so many kind of wrong, I'm not even going to argue.

[sjk9671]

I hope you all know that in the Army we don’t have auto on our M4's. Hollywood wants you to think we do, that has not been the case since Vietnam. The most you get is 3 shot burst and even that is used only to keep the enemies’ heads down while the M249 is down with a jam or reloading.

In Military use, full autos are for suppression. We don’t even like to use the 3 shot burst function, goes through too much ammo and you can barley hit anything.

Also, the statement that you don't use semi auto for hunting is just completely false, there are semi auto shotguns for goose and duck, and well as semi auto .22 for rabbit and squirrel.

As far as the OP's question, there is nothing wrong with starting out with an AR or AK. Both are relatively small rounds that are a lot of fun to shoot. Either would be a great choice!

As far as the OP's question, there is nothing wrong with starting out with an AR or AK. Both are relatively small rounds that are a lot of fun to shoot. Either would be a great choice!

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by sjk9671

Also, the statement that you don't use semi auto for hunting is just completely false, there are semi auto shotguns for goose and duck, and well as semi auto .22 for rabbit and squirrel.

A lot of states/counties/preserves ban semi autos for hunting or limit the capacity to very few rounds.

So no, it's not completely false.

[sjk9671]

Originally Posted by O-cha

A lot of states/counties/preserves ban semi autos for hunting or limit the capacity to very few rounds.

So no, it's not completely false.

Intersting, can you give an example? I live in NY and they have terrible laws, semi auto hunting is not one.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by sjk9671

Intersting, can you give an example? I live in NY and they have terrible laws, semi auto hunting is not one.

Yes, you will find many examples here.

[ragingclue]

Obviously everyone's first gun should be a S&W 500.

Actually you should get two, one for each hand, so you can be super boss at the range.

[sjk9671]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Yes, you will find many examples here.

Tried that all i came up with were states that ban rifles for hunting. Nothing mentioned about semi auto shotguns or .22 cal semi auto rifles.

Not being sarcastic. I’m genuinely interested.

[E90SoFlo]

I think most would agree for home defense a shotgun is your best bet.

For plinking at a range, the AR15 is a blast, I love shooting mine and would highly recommend it. I have never owned a AK so I can't comment on that. For everyone wanting a FULL AUTO SPEND ALL YO MONEY AR15, buy this http://www.slidefire.com/

You more then likely will own multiple guns through your life, so don't think to hard, just get what you really want.

I have a RRA lower and I must say its a great receiver.