[SGBAILEY79]

Originally Posted by alee0729

I have a few pilot friends (one with an older Mooney Ovation and one with a newer Pilatus PC-12NG) and the general conventional wisdom from them is that it's a money pit. Affording the plane for them hasn't been as much of an issue as it is keeping the plane airworthy, and repair bills that probably make an S65 engine overhaul look cheap. Inspections, fuel costs, hangar storage costs, and fixing stuff that breaks all contribute to a very expensive hobby. They fly reasonably often for pleasure... your typical weekend getaway craft. If you've been flying for a while, I suspect you're a pretty decent mechanic, so that will certainly help drive down costs of maintenance.

Cheaper than flying charter, more expensive than flying domestic commercial, more convenient than both and way faster than driving unless you have to make a hike to the airport to get your plane.

This^

Used aircraft are money pits. If you can’t afford one that is less than 4 or 5 years old don't do it. I am an Air Force pilot as well, if you want more info PM me. I made the unfortunate mistake of buying a used 1984 Piper Warrior.

[Erie Von Otto]

Originally Posted by Gee-klaw

Seriously bad-ass...

[Curt2000]

Mud Hen pilot eh? Is it true you refer to your back seater as R-2?

I've been down the aircraft ownership road before but only as a commercial asset to depreciate and offset other sources of income. If you plan on leasing back to a flight school or aero club where you can usually break even (on training a/c such as Diamonds, pipers, and cessnas) then sole ownership is the way to go. If you want a Gucci weekend cross country getaway beech or mooney then I'd definitely recommend joint ownership with some of your bros. Turbo Arrows are a great high TAS, low gph, relatively cheap platform for the latter scenario.

Either way, realistically you have to have the capital to pay cash for the a/c with about $20k in liquid capital to sink into it every year. Leasing it back to a club or school offsets that cost but then you have to deal with strangers beating up on your baby. A/C loans are like a cross between a long term auto loan and a mortgage and are damn hard to get approve for because on the fringe of the housing market bust the a/c loan industry collapsed as well. Banks are very weary to loan unless you have the above stated assets available.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I get air sick too, but my absolute terror of flying overrules it. I keep from vomiting by screaming the entire flight and telling everybody on board that we are going to die. It helps a little, and when you get finally tasered you are unconscious for the rest of the flight. I'd probably be a terrible pilot.

LOL! Best post of the day. That was super funny.

[BURAKUSTA]

Airbus A380 owner here

[Gee-klaw]

Originally Posted by jimf15e

Incredible! I may fly an F-15E, but in reality I only get to *borrow* it. You OWN that work of art, nice!

If you are ever over in the UK happy to let you take it for a spin!

[ddk632]

Gee-klaw, awesome looking plane and photos. Love the one with the Panigale S Tricolore!

[jimf15e]

Originally Posted by Curt2000

Mud Hen pilot eh? Is it true you refer to your back seater as R-2?

I've been down the aircraft ownership road before but only as a commercial asset to depreciate and offset other sources of income. If you plan on leasing back to a flight school or aero club where you can usually break even (on training a/c such as Diamonds, pipers, and cessnas) then sole ownership is the way to go. If you want a Gucci weekend cross country getaway beech or mooney then I'd definitely recommend joint ownership with some of your bros. Turbo Arrows are a great high TAS, low gph, relatively cheap platform for the latter scenario.

Either way, realistically you have to have the capital to pay cash for the a/c with about $20k in liquid capital to sink into it every year. Leasing it back to a club or school offsets that cost but then you have to deal with strangers beating up on your baby. A/C loans are like a cross between a long term auto loan and a mortgage and are damn hard to get approve for because on the fringe of the housing market bust the a/c loan industry collapsed as well. Banks are very weary to loan unless you have the above stated assets available.

All great info. I'll probably stay away from the lease-backs, I want something that's "ours" alone, silly as it sounds. But that $20k number sounds about right from what I've been reading - about $200/hr for a 100-hour year. Not too bad, considering I pay about half that just for car loans. There's the rub - buy airplane = sell M3!

And ha! You know your stuff, yes, we jokingly call the backseaters "R2 units", although the true correct term is WSO, pronounced whizzo but stands for Weapons System Operator. I row the boat and shoot the ducks air to air, he shoots the ducks air to ground and helps keep other ducks from shooting us.

Beautiful car btw - I loved your Santorini Blue ED thread.

[TACA A320]

I am a corporate pilot (working on CFI now to get more hours....damn corporate flying is slow) and my dad is an ATP who flies on weekends. Together we have owned a Cessna 172 and 182. Both oldies, the 172 was a 1967 and the 182 was a 1962 but both were maintained meticulously and didn't leave us stranded.

Owning an airplane is like owning a boat. Even though it's fun as hell when everything works and you are trying to impress a blonde with double Ds, the maintenance is expensive. The only positive recent development in aviation costs is that the government no longer collects a sales tax on airplanes or airplane parts. Whether you buy your airplane new or used, you will not pay a sales tax.
Moving on to the airplanes themselves. There is no question that the F33 Bonanza is a fabulous airplane. The only problem is that Beechcraft parts are expensive. Two of my corporate gigs are flying King Airs (an E90 and an F90) and I listen to their owners talk about how expensive the parts are. Mind you, they wouldn't trade those airplanes for anything because a King Air is a King Air, but they are costly. I cringe every time I start the engines because a brand new replacement engine is about 400k and a start that has you above 1090 degrees for longer than two seconds can really screw up the engine. Piston engines like the Continental that is in the F33 are also getting expensive. The interesting part is that the prices of airplanes themselves are plummeting while parts are getting more expensive by the day. Take note of this.
Unexpected repairs and their associated costs are the worst. We had to replace the starter on the 182 unexpectedly and overhaul the propeller/install a new governor unexpectedly as well. Hurt the wallet but the airplane flew great afterwards. Like anything in life, it is a trade off. If you want the airplane to look great and be ready to fly every time you get to the airport you have to spend the right amout of $ to make it fully reliable. As much as we complained about spending the money to replace parts for the 182 we would do anything to have it back. Maybe one day we will buy another airplane but for now my buddy is letting me use his Piper Lance for free so it would be pointless for us to buy a plane. You only live once, if you want to own an airplane do it and don't look back, but be ready to spend money to make it perfect. I highly suggest that you join AOPA Pilot and sign up for a subscription to Flying Magazine also. Lots of cool flying tips in there and awesome stories. I hope this helped, feel free to send me a message if you need more info. Good luck!!!!!

[TACA A320]

I also agree with the user above who suggested a Turbo Arrow. Awesome airplanes and cheaper maintenance than an F33. Partnerships are great when they work out but when your buddies want to install a Garmin 530 and you don't it can get interesting.

[Curt2000]

Originally Posted by jimf15e

All great info. I'll probably stay away from the lease-backs, I want something that's "ours" alone, silly as it sounds. But that $20k number sounds about right from what I've been reading - about $200/hr for a 100-hour year. Not too bad, considering I pay about half that just for car loans. There's the rub - buy airplane = sell M3!

And ha! You know your stuff, yes, we jokingly call the backseaters "R2 units", although the true correct term is WSO, pronounced whizzo but stands for Weapons System Operator. I row the boat and shoot the ducks air to air, he shoots the ducks air to ground and helps keep other ducks from shooting us.

Beautiful car btw - I loved your Santorini Blue ED thread.

Thanks and good luck, If you have your CFI you can sell the left seat on cross countries and just charge the student for the A/C time. Works out pretty well if the student is just trying to build hood time or CC hours for their Commercial certificate.

[Nate4641]

You guys ever catch that Top gear episode where they end up in a Mig graveyard in some former Soviet country? I was watching that wondering if someone could just buy one of those planes, or take one, and get it air worthy... An old cold war jet would be a pretty sick plane to own, plus you could probably get paid to fly it around an air show.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Peahi

F-15's rock! I saw one performing at the SF fleetweek show a couple of years ago...and he turned it out! It's a navy centered show with the blue angels of course, and I'm sure he was thinking "I"m gonna bring it for the USAF!"
I saw a raptor last year...lots of nice moves.

Yeah the Eagle kicks ass. One was still flying with it in this condition......

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Nate4641

You guys ever catch that Top gear episode where they end up in a Mig graveyard in some former Soviet country? I was watching that wondering if someone could just buy one of those planes, or take one, and get it air worthy... An old cold war jet would be a pretty sick plane to own, plus you could probably get paid to fly it around an air show.

Yeah, that was pretty cool. Lots of the air frames looks to be in good shape. For me, i would love to have a P51!

[smgbmw]

Spock that works at the sim built his RV-8 in his garage. Went up a couple months ago with him. Great little plane.

[jimf15e]

Great to see you last week, sad to see the doc go.

I know - I've seen pictures of his RV, beautiful. I'd love to build my own as well but that's for later in life. For now I'll have to take one pre-built!

On a semi-related note, know anyone who might be interested in my car?...The airplane might be replacing it!

[Nate4641]

Wanna buy a Harrier?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sea-H...#ht_500wt_1182

[yakev724]

Originally Posted by Nate4641

Wanna buy a Harrier?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sea-H...#ht_500wt_1182

Is something like this or a Soviet Bloc jet legal to register? fly?

[carve]

I started taking lessons at 14, and eventually wound up with at least a little seat time in everything from a C152 to an F-16. Unless you have LOTS of money or it is your passion like gee-klaw, a weekend getaway plane is a very expensive hobby- especially when you're already paid to fly one of the worlds best airplanes. The per hour expense, airworthiness/maintenance, hanger fees, and then having your toys and a car available at wherever you land makes it tough to justify the cost unless maybe you live on an airstrip and have to make an over 200 mile trip at least a couple times per week in a place with reliably good weather.

I figured since I'm flying just for fun, it'd make sense to pare it down to the bare minimum and take up paragliding and skydiving. Paragliding doesn't have the best safety record though, and there are no decent drop zones near me.

All that said, if I was going to have a weekend getaway plane, it'd either be something that quickly disassembled that I could store at home, or something like this...

[carve]

Originally Posted by Nate4641

You guys ever catch that Top gear episode where they end up in a Mig graveyard in some former Soviet country? I was watching that wondering if someone could just buy one of those planes, or take one, and get it air worthy... An old cold war jet would be a pretty sick plane to own, plus you could probably get paid to fly it around an air show.

You can get a flight-worthy MiG-21 for cheap...like $100k for a supersonic fighter plane. Good luck on operating expenses though.