[RBP]

If I were giving advice to someone just starting out and wanted to get in to a "Wall Street" job, I would tell them to give Goldman Sachs a call and find out from them what the best school(s) would be. The school is important, but you can't beat street experience and the best education available is given by Goldman Sachs....and there is no second place.

[jlspeed29]

The crazy math degrees are right....

My company sent me to PIMCO last month and met up with some of their fund managers and those guys are smart, let me tell ya'... I wish I could find their bio's but they were all MBAs at least...we met with one dude who was a rocket scientist and had a masters in physics, some other dude had his mba in finance from MIT...i really gotta get their bio's.....

well hey man, there is a lot of money in our field you just gotta go out there and get it, i'm not saying its easy, by no means is it easy...i love finance and finance pays and thats why i choose this field, its like a match made in heaven....i just wish i could start making some money!

soon enough...and remember to NETWORK..that is soooooo important

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

i just watched the vh1 show on wallstreet mill/billionairs and all i can say is wow. you think movie stars, trump, etc make alot of money, these wall street gurus are making 800 million year to even 1.5 billion a year. i would be happy with even 1 million a year.

anyone here involved in wallstreet? i am a freshman at college and am seriously thinking about getting involved in it. my parent's say the job is really hard and stressfull but if you can manage and make money you can retire early and be one happy man.

do tell your thoughts.

Been there, done that. Investment banking on this side of the computer, and let me tell you FEW make that much money and those that due have given up their lives and many are on the 2nd, 3rd, etc marriage. Money is not everything, you got to do what you love. I got friends at Hedge Funds and they are worked to the bone. Sure they make great money but spend a crapload of it to live in Manhattan, plus the stress. I used to be all about Hedge Funds and I-Banking, then I worked for an I-Bank and one of the founding partners at the firm told me: "As long as you depend on a W-2 you will never have financial security." He was right, and I listened and absorbed all the information I could from him about all his business he ran OUTSIDE the firm. Here I am 4 years later running my own company with 10X the free time that my Wallstreet friends have.

I think wallstreet is fun and exciting, but I view it as a learning experience. If you get your law degree or advanced business degree and get hooked up in the right firm you can learn so much which can lead to you opening your own business or doing your own thing.

PM with specific questions, still have contacts throughout the industry.

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by RBP

But you can grind for 5 years and make enough to get completely out.

Lifestyle is certainly important....but it's money that buys the lifestyle. I'd rather kill myself for a few years for the money than plug away indefinately even if it's something I don't mind doing. With a lot of money...I can do whatever I want, whenever I want.

There are many ways to achieve a lifestyle, but I don't want a lifestyle if I have to be miserable to get there. If you chase money, rather than your heart you will wind up in the wrong room and not understand why.

[hl0m4n]

what majors do you need to get involved. accounting and ____?

[jlspeed29]

accounting is for girls

no, seriously you should speak with a counselor lol..for reals...you are gonna need all the basic classes aka "core classes" then you can take your upper division concentration courses

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by mesier1111

There are many ways to achieve a lifestyle, but I don't want a lifestyle if I have to be miserable to get there. If you chase money, rather than your heart you will wind up in the wrong room and not understand why.

We agree it appears. Many of my friends are just like you, except they are in the early part of your discovery phase.

[RBP]

You guys are still missing the point. Working long hours and being under huge stress is FUN for some people (myself included). Just because it looks like hell to you doesn't mean it is for those doing it.

At 36, I can now do or do not do anything I want, wherever I want...whether it be toiling at a job I find amusing or do nothing but fish and play golf. When I started out it seemed like a good idea and in hindsight I am very glad I took the path I did. Needless to say, I am still doing what I have always done, but at a more leisurely pace. Had I dropped out after a year or two to pursue a hobby farm for some other less lucrative pursuit because the work life was too demanding, then I wouldn't have the freedom I do now.


Libertas inaestimabilis res est
(freedom is priceless)

For everything else....there's mastercard.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

That is the theory. But how many financiers do you know who have retired after a few years (aka wasting away their 20s and early 30s) ? You get sucked into the make-more-money cycle and simply up your consumption to boot.

I once heard a hedge fund manager at a cocktail party say, "I had to buy a new place. I just bought a $5mm painting and there is no way in hell I was going to put that on a wall of a $1MM condo."

Cranking for 5 years isn't the whole picture of your "costs". Getting $300-500k straight out of grad school requires you go to a Top 5 Business School - count on a six figure student loan.

I can count, on one hand, the number of people I have heard of who retired after a few years in the finance world and are sitting pretty. And they aren't your run of the mill Harvard Business School students. They are guys who do things like start of the first private equity funds with George Soros. And even then - it was closer to two decades before he retired.

The key is to find something you love doing that pays exceedingly well. It's out there, it's different than everyone, but it's what everyone should strive for.

Some damn good advice. Thanks.

[kick]

The people who are attracted to PE in the first place will be lifers if they make it. They love the chase, the kill and the payoff. 100 hours flies by when you're into it. It's not for everyone, it's not for me. The first question I was asked in a PE interview was how incredibly awesome at math I was, the second had something to do with being someone's bitch for 24 months.

I'm good at neither.

I'm now on the path I want to be, which is entertainment. It's not /ideal/ work, but I meet a lot of people who can get me elsewhere.

[fobunited]

Which Morgan Stanley guy are you talking about? Mack? Darst?

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

^ thanks for info. are you in the financial/accounting job? the guy morgan stanley...jebus 1.5 billion sallary. one of my mom's nursing buddies son just got out of NYU and in about a year later is in wall streat earning 200k yearly already.

these days i don't think getting a mba, or whatever business degree from NYU is special anymore. academics increase every year and gets harder. now days getting a degree from like stanford, etc are the more top places which will land you a high job "first perspective" wise.

damn being a freshman in college is getting harder already. thinking about careers, majors, etc.

[mpimping]

Originally Posted by RenaultOne

Well the University of Pennsylvania and NYU are the top two schools (according to the subjective data of U.S. News & World Report) for financing degrees, but Stanford is not known for its business school at all but mostly for its biology and engineering classes. And working your ass off for that MBA at one of those top business schools will be worth it because I think giving investing advice is fun and you could possibly retire before 45 or even 40.

NYU has an undergrad business program that is hard to get in but the rest of the school is not as hard to get in...

[HEY32G]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

i just watched the vh1 show on wallstreet mill/billionairs and all i can say is wow. you think movie stars, trump, etc make alot of money, these wall street gurus are making 800 million year to even 1.5 billion a year. i would be happy with even 1 million a year.

anyone here involved in wallstreet? i am a freshman at college and am seriously thinking about getting involved in it. my parent's say the job is really hard and stressfull but if you can manage and make money you can retire early and be one happy man.

do tell your thoughts.

I've been in the business for 17 years. The trading and hedge fund world is moving to all computer driven. If you want to make the huge money get a masters degree in finance, get a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst), get a CMT (Chartered Market Technician), and get your doctorate in physics and/or mathematics. Seriously, if you did all that, you would be able to make HUGE money. All the trading business is going to be done by computers. It's estimated that 90% of traders will be repolaced by computers in the next ten years.

[Expired]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

I was very close to entering the private equity world. The pay was great - I was given the expectation of $250-350k all-in comp the first year out of graduate school. My classmates in the leveraged buyout world (also private equity) were averaging 400k for all-in comp package.

But looking at their lifestyle, I just couldn't fathom it. PE (of which hedge funds can be considered) is generally the creme of the finance world, so at least you aren't a model monkey working for Goldman Sachs or something. That said, the hours were still unfathomable. My buddies now average 80 hours a week and during due diligence crunch times, 130-135 hours is not unheard of. Yes, you read that right.

Money in and of itself is not a good reason to choose a career. I have buddies in PE who did that very thing and hate their jobs with a passion. They changed from my happy-go-lucky buddies to miserable people. Some of my other buddies in PE love the deal side of it and love doing the work despite the hours.

Find what you love. If it's just money, I'm sorry to hear that.

+1
Here are some quotes for the OP to ponder..

Money never made a man happy yet, nor will it. There is nothing in its nature to produce happiness. The more a man has, the more he wants. Instead of its filling a vacuum, it makes one. -Benjamin Franklin

A wise man should have money in his head, but not in his heart.-Jonathan Swift

Originally Posted by RBP

But you can grind for 5 years and make enough to get completely out.

Lifestyle is certainly important....but it's money that buys the lifestyle. I'd rather kill myself for a few years for the money than plug away indefinately even if it's something I don't mind doing. With a lot of money...I can do whatever I want, whenever I want.

You'll only be getting out of a career like this if you know how to manage your money. It's funny, because the people that can't manage their own money are managing everyone else's..
Once you get that $500k+ paycheck, you just keep wanting more and more as you spend it..

Originally Posted by kick

A mentor of mine sits on the board of a company that makes automated trading software (it's based on fractals, can execute 14k trades/second, crazy, fascinating stuff), and the money floating around out there that no one is really aware of is astounding. One of the other directors manages an enormous hedge fund in Europe. These guys keep really low profiles and live a life few are accustomed to.

If you're good at math and don't have a family, go into private equity. The highest paid fund manger last year (cashed a ~$1bn bonus) is a retired High School math teacher.

Food for thought.

Finally, someone that agrees with me on how much money is out there for the taking.. -___-
I'm tired of people using forbes for their information.. It's funny because they see the same old bill gates, warren buffet, and etc on the top lists.. Then instead of seeing their net worth as gains over time, they look at them as if they made all that money in the last year or so.
They also don't take into account all of the people that choose to keep their identities a secret.

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

I guess I'm not making myself clear.

With $500k in the bank, you can leave and do whatever the hell you want, as long as you don't live the consumption lifestyle. What I have seen as I have made more money (and certainly my friends who make beaucoup bucks), you develop more and more expensive tastes. You just up the ante and have to make more to support that lifestyle. Some of my friends laughed at me for getting a 335i and said, "Dude, if I were you, I'd buy that 430. You don't want to show up rolling in a pedestrian car like a BMW."

Frankly speaking, you don't need much to survive. Once you get a taste of the forbidden fruit, nothing else will do.

I hate to say it, but I assume you are young - like lower 20s at most. I hope you don't take offense to this.

Don't get me wrong - I am a capitalist to the core. I'm just happy I escaped the fate of the finance lifestyle, a lifestyle in which very few people find fulfillment. Same with my close brush with lawyerdom after undergrad. A girl I dated back in school is now starting her law career - STANDARD starting salary is $160k. They are all miserable, however. I'll probably make more money in my current field anyways, since I love and therefore put a lot of effort into what I do.

That's just my thought process. Yours is not better or worse, just different. Different strokes....

+1
You don't need much to live on and be happy.. When you retire, you obviously already have a house and a pretty nice car.. That's $500k spending money, taking a few vacations a year, buying your kids stuff, etc..
The problem is, people continue to want more and more.. and think that they can't be happy until they have it all.

Originally Posted by RBP

No I'm not in my lower 20s and I think you are quite a way off the mark to say you can do what you want on $500K. Consumption for some does not have a limit...but doing what you want does have a price. If what you want for example is to have 2 homes, a couple cars at each, 2 part time staff for each house and to do unlimited travelling....then there is a price to that. You could probably afford to keep it all going with $50 Million. Once you get passed that hurdle, then you can leave when ever you want. What I am saying about all these people you seem to know who up the ante every year at the consumption jamboree is that they probably enjoy what they are doing. And the whole consumption argument is a little flawed in that there is always an arugment that a person can do with less...we made it this far by starting in caves without fire. Having a BMW and scoffing at consumption is a little counter intuitive regardless of the model. Some people just like cars. Jay Leno has a ton of them, but last I checked he doesn't yearn for the latest cubists auctioned at Sotheby's. If what you truly want is a small apartment in a small mid-western town and you truly don't want any things, then you're $500K might be just fine....but then that guy probably didn't contemplate a private equity job in the first place. And I think you can keep upping the ante on consumption until you are done. Personally I wouldn't want 25 houses, 6 yachts and 4 jets and I don't have an appreciation for paintings and sculptures but a couple of houses, a boat and some cars would be something I do want...and that comes with a price.

There doesn't have to be a conflict with making money and enjoying the job or even putting in hours. I've come off some seriously tough weeks and felt great about it. From the outside, many would say that an 80 hour week is ludicrous but there are many that enjoy it, and for many, the money is the end game.

Some** people enjoy working 80+ a week, not many.
It's people like you that make me laugh..
2 houses and 2 cars at each to sit there a depreciate, all while traveling the world and not making use of either..
If you want to travel a lot, then do it for a year.. I assure you that you will be tired of it, and want to settle down after that. Everything gets old fast if you continue to do it over and over.

As for people enjoying the job.. They continue to work even though they hate it, because they think that they can buy happiness. They think that the more they have, the happier they will be. Then after 20 years of trying to buy themselves out of depression, they finally realize that the one thing they are working for is making them depressed.

I'm glad that my dad taught me at a very young age to make money work for me, so that I wouldn't be the one working for money.

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Before you choose any career - go ask people who:

(1) Have done it for 20 yrs
(2) Have done it for 1 yr
(3) Have done it for 5 yrs and then quit.

If you're not bugging them for a job, they'll give you a lot of inside information.

+1

Originally Posted by mesier1111

There are many ways to achieve a lifestyle, but I don't want a lifestyle if I have to be miserable to get there. If you chase money, rather than your heart you will wind up in the wrong room and not understand why.

What is your company called and what do they do??
You've apparently blocked receiving personal messages..

Originally Posted by RBP

You guys are still missing the point. Working long hours and being under huge stress is FUN for some people (myself included). Just because it looks like hell to you doesn't mean it is for those doing it.

At 36, I can now do or do not do anything I want, wherever I want...whether it be toiling at a job I find amusing or do nothing but fish and play golf. When I started out it seemed like a good idea and in hindsight I am very glad I took the path I did. Needless to say, I am still doing what I have always done, but at a more leisurely pace. Had I dropped out after a year or two to pursue a hobby farm for some other less lucrative pursuit because the work life was too demanding, then I wouldn't have the freedom I do now.


Libertas inaestimabilis res est
(freedom is priceless)

For everything else....there's mastercard.

I doubt someone would go from investing to farming, especially if they already have a college degree.. -___-
Just curious, do you know latin or are you just quoting it??

Originally Posted by GH32335i

I've been in the business for 17 years. The trading and hedge fund world is moving to all computer driven. If you want to make the huge money get a masters degree in finance, get a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst), get a CMT (Chartered Market Technician), and get your doctorate in physics and/or mathematics. Seriously, if you did all that, you would be able to make HUGE money. All the trading business is going to be done by computers. It's estimated that 90% of traders will be repolaced by computers in the next ten years.

And when that happens, I can almost guarantee you that the stock market will no longer exist.

-Nathan

[mpimping]

I used to work for guy who was a managing director at goldman sachs before they closed his division and he"retired". He was really fired but when you are a md I guess they let you retire... The guy was such a prick.

[mrwma237]

Originally Posted by 007e92

im in institutional equity sales for bloomberg tradebook. thats including bonus im sure right? alot of my banking buddies in NY usually hit about 100k salary not including bonuses and thats after geting MBAs...so im not sure exactly what your mom's buddy is doing but thats really impressive...did he just complete undergrad? - and yes degrees from the top institutes will make it that much easier to get an interview. yeah, you gotta start early. start thinking about what you want to do. getting an internship is really important in my opinion. try to get as much as you can. it will be gold when getting the exact position you want after graduation. thats why its good to know what you want to do so while youre a freshman you can rack up the interning experience in that specific field. when you finish, for the top companies its about GPA and the most significant experience...not to mention interview skills...one thing about finance though - its one of the most competitive industries in my experience. to get the job, its kill or be killed - too bad it doesnt end there. same goes for being on the job.

I didn't know Bloomberg had a brokerage arm. Bloomberg runs a book too?

The dood said it correctly. Wall street have many positions for you to cosinder. Ranging from analysts, brokers, traders, operations, to i bank, m&a, hedge (tho with the credit crunch crisis, you won't see many of these boutigue laying around no more). Start at an internship first, you're only a freshmen, local retail brokerage branches love hiring you guys as office labors. Push papers, answer phones will be your primary duties, but while you're there, you should be absorbing knowledge from what you read and hear. Pick the brains of the top producers in the office, access to research from these firms, start from the basics, know what a mutual fund is. Internships are just a place for you to gain knowledge, it isn't necessary an advancement towards a high salary job. Good luck.

[mrwma237]

Originally Posted by GH32335i

I've been in the business for 17 years. The trading and hedge fund world is moving to all computer driven. If you want to make the huge money get a masters degree in finance, get a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst), get a CMT (Chartered Market Technician), and get your doctorate in physics and/or mathematics. Seriously, if you did all that, you would be able to make HUGE money. All the trading business is going to be done by computers. It's estimated that 90% of traders will be repolaced by computers in the next ten years.

Originally Posted by Expired

And when that happens, I can almost guarantee you that the stock market will no longer exist.

-Nathan

I understand that the actual trading can be done by computers in the future, but how does that translate to the market non existing ?

[jaiman]

Originally Posted by Expired

And when that happens, I can almost guarantee you that the stock market will no longer exist.

-Nathan

What? Do you understand the role that the stock market plays in the economy? Why would fully automated trading lead to that role not needing to be filled??

[nightkhan]

Ever higher pay last year was hedge fund manager John Paulson, who had bet on the credit crisis. Cleared the year with 3+ billion.

Ibanking hours are torturous...80+ hours a week, especially your first couple years. It's all deal making on their end.

Trading for me is more entertaining. Hours are better. Pay is stellar.

I wish someone would've told me back in high school that the key to wall street jobs doesn't really rely on economics backgrounds, etc, but really math, physics, all the advance weird technical shit.

[dth656]

yeah, i dont have vh1, so i'm not sure how they portrayed it, but alot of my buddies in bschool were ex ibankers (goldman, morgan stanley, etc). a few went back into it after bschool, but as others have posted, the lifestyle sucks. however, there is a small core of lifers who really do enjoy it, and end up as MDs.

i'm not sure how realistic it is, but you may want to read the book "monkey business"; one guy from Wharton and one guy from HBS join DLJ and write about their adventures (or lack thereof, ha ha)


also, a degree from one of those 'top five' bschools is no guarantee of success. i work in management consulting, and we've canned people who came from HBS, wharton, etc for being morons. the name will get you in the door, i guess. if you're not hung up on those five schools, you may also want to look at:

-Berkeley (Haas)
-Chicago GSB
-UCLA (Anderson)
-Duke (Fuqua)

[Couch]

Originally Posted by mpimping

I used to work for guy who was a managing director at goldman sachs before they closed his division and he"retired". He was really fired but when you are a md I guess they let you retire... The guy was such a prick.

I'm not surprised.

GS acquired the, (shitty) company I work for in December. Anytime someone from GS, doesn't even have to be a big wig comes from GS everyone starts flipping out. "We need to clean off the table, take this to storage, do this and that." "Even though it's casual week, dress up for the possible visit to our department."

Sorry, I'm not an ass-kissser and never will be. Everyone seems to get unnerved at my comments because "the pee-on" (me) talks shit about kissing ass.

As for working on Wall Street. It's a busy busy job. My friend knows someone that is and his first 6 months were a mandatory 100 hours a week. And from what I understand, that didn't even guarantee you job security after that time. If they felt you were under-performing you were canned.

Working 80-100+ hours a week isn't fun. I've seen my dad do it for at least 5 years when he first started his company. When you see a man with a 102 degree temp, and full blown flu, putting in 90 hours a week, it's something else. It makes me never want to complain because I have a sinus infection or other.

[mpimping]

Originally Posted by dth656

yeah, i dont have vh1, so i'm not sure how they portrayed it, but alot of my buddies in bschool were ex ibankers (goldman, morgan stanley, etc). a few went back into it after bschool, but as others have posted, the lifestyle sucks. however, there is a small core of lifers who really do enjoy it, and end up as MDs.

i'm not sure how realistic it is, but you may want to read the book "monkey business"; one guy from Wharton and one guy from HBS join DLJ and write about their adventures (or lack thereof, ha ha)


also, a degree from one of those 'top five' bschools is no guarantee of success. i work in management consulting, and we've canned people who came from HBS, wharton, etc for being morons. the name will get you in the door, i guess. if you're not hung up on those five schools, you may also want to look at:

-Berkeley (Haas)
-Chicago GSB
-UCLA (Anderson)
-Duke (Fuqua)

It depends on the ibank or hedge fund or where it is. what they want in NY may differ from other parts of the country but if you have a degree from those schools you shouldn't have a problem...