[dcstep]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Chewy, if that post above was supposed to talk Dave out of buying a 1D-X, it failed. Hell, I'm ready to get one now.

I have a question with regards to super-teles. I was daydreaming the other day and looking at a 400mm f2.8 IS II. Using a 2x TC would give you 800mm @ f5.6 with IS, which seems very attractive. What are your reasons for going with the 500 f4 IS over the 400 f2.8? Wouldn't the speed of f5.6 vs f8 be useful? Or does the added reach outweigh that?

800mm is nice, but 1,000mm is better and 1,200mm is something else. If you could stack the TC-IIIs, then f/2.8 would allow combining to get out to 1,040mm, but you can't stack the TC-IIIs unless you put an extension tube in middle and then you can't infinity focus.

Stacking Kenko TCs could be an option.

I haven't looked at the MTF charts for the 400mm f/2.8 IS II. I suspect that it's greatly improved over the not so great S-I. The 500mm S-II is almost flat. My S-I is so good, it's hard to imagine it getting better.

If you don't have a camera that'll focus at f/8, then I recommend switching bodies before buying any of these lenses. Yeah, with the 400/2.8 you can AF on any of the prosumer Canons at f/5.6, but none of those AF systems is anywhere near as accurate, consistent and flexible as the 1D series and the 5D3. Believe me, even the 7D is a distant second best when it comes to accuracy and consistency. (I own one). For super telephoto shooting you need both a great lens and a body with strong AF.

I hang out some at bird photographers.net and the most common lenses I see used are the 300/2.8, 400/5.6, 500/4.0, 600/4.0 and 800/5.6. I can't recall seeing the 400/2.8 mentioned. If you search for it on Flickr you get a wide range of images, but mostly sport, indoor and outdoor.

I used to shoot my 500mm at 700mm using my 1.4x TC, but as soon as my camera would AF at f/8, I put on an EF 2.0x TC-III to shoot at 1,000mm and hardly take it off. I carry two cameras, so I've got a 70-200mm with a 1.4x TC attached on the 7D body. Whether you'll carry two bodies is a big factor. Almost all sport photographers do and many of us wildlife guys do.

Dave

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by dcstep

800mm is nice, but 1,000mm is better and 1,200mm is something else. If you could stack the TC-IIIs, then f/2.8 would allow combining to get out to 1,040mm, but you can't stack the TC-IIIs unless you put an extension tube in middle and then you can't infinity focus.

Stacking Kenko TCs could be an option.

I haven't looked at the MTF charts for the 400mm f/2.8 IS II. I suspect that it's greatly improved over the not so great S-I. The 500mm S-II is almost flat. My S-I is so good, it's hard to imagine it getting better.

If you don't have a camera that'll focus at f/8, then I recommend switching bodies before buying any of these lenses. Yeah, with the 400/2.8 you can AF on any of the prosumer Canons at f/5.6, but none of those AF systems is anywhere near as accurate, consistent and flexible as the 1D series and the 5D3. Believe me, even the 7D is a distant second best when it comes to accuracy and consistency. (I own one). For super telephoto shooting you need both a great lens and a body with strong AF.

I hang out some at bird photographers.net and the most common lenses I see used are the 300/2.8, 400/5.6, 500/4.0, 600/4.0 and 800/5.6. I can't recall seeing the 400/2.8 mentioned. If you search for it on Flickr you get a wide range of images, but mostly sport, indoor and outdoor.

I used to shoot my 500mm at 700mm using my 1.4x TC, but as soon as my camera would AF at f/8, I put on an EF 2.0x TC-III to shoot at 1,000mm and hardly take it off. I carry two cameras, so I've got a 70-200mm with a 1.4x TC attached on the 7D body. Whether you'll carry two bodies is a big factor. Almost all sport photographers do and many of us wildlife guys do.

Dave

I have a dual RS sling strap that I'll use to carry two bodies when I need them. Probably the 6D with the 400 5.6 and 1.4x TC and the 7D with the 70-200 2.8 and the 2x TC. That will be some serious weight, though. I won't be walking too far with all that. For the upcoming local airshow, I plan on working from the tailgate of my X5 with the 6D set up on a tripod and the 7D on a sling.

For a week in late Aug and early Sep a B-25 bomber is visiting the local airfield to give rides. I don't care so much about getting a ride, but I want lots of shots of it taking off and landing.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by M_Six

I have a dual RS sling strap that I'll use to carry two bodies when I need them. Probably the 6D with the 400 5.6 and 1.4x TC and the 7D with the 70-200 2.8 and the 2x TC. That will be some serious weight, though. I won't be walking too far with all that. For the upcoming local airshow, I plan on working from the tailgate of my X5 with the 6D set up on a tripod and the 7D on a sling.

For a week in late Aug and early Sep a B-25 bomber is visiting the local airfield to give rides. I don't care so much about getting a ride, but I want lots of shots of it taking off and landing.

I carry my 500/f4 by the tripod foot and have the 7D on a CPS strap around my neck with the 70-200/f4. That keeps the weight on my neck reasonable. It's still a load that I'll carry for hundreds of yards per day and up to a couple of hours. For a two-mile hike in, I really need to get a backpack for the 500/f4. I don't do that often, but I need something like that.

I've noticed that most of the pro sports photogs have their long lens on a monopod and the short cameras slung around their shoulders or necks.

I thank my junior high and high school coaches for forcing me to lift weights. I've got a linebacker build and started water skiing at age-6 and played all sports, so it may be easier for me to lug things than the average photog. (Now if I could just lose 30-pounds off my stomach, it'd be real easy going). Unfortunately the arthritus in my ankles, feet and neck, caused by those sports, somewhat offset the benefits. Believe me, those ankle sprains at 12 to 18 hurt even more at 65. (Not as acute, but longer lasting... or constant).

Dave

[dcstep]

Speaking of lens MTF charts and full frame file quality, here's an 80% crop taken with my 500/f4 S-I and the 2.0x TC-III, on the 5D3. The S-II is supposed to be even better, but I'm already blown away with my S-I:


Goldfinch shows me his profile. by dcstep, on Flickr

I see people pooh-poohing using TCs all the time, claiming the IQ penalty is too large. I claim BULL SHIT. Those people couldn't have ever tried it. I even had one guy claim that his standards must be higher than mine, because anyone could see the distortion.

[Itsed65]

Well I will be anxious to read about your experience. I think my next big camera purchase is going to be either the 500 or 600 for use with my 1D4 (not counting the NEX6 I just ordered). I just need to save up some more. I just bought a custom made chair adapter for a Segway that should allow me to finally get off the pavement a bit more, and that took a bite out of my photography fund.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Itsed65

Well I will be anxious to read about your experience. I think my next big camera purchase is going to be either the 500 or 600 for use with my 1D4 (not counting the NEX6 I just ordered). I just need to save up some more. I just bought a custom made chair adapter for a Segway that should allow me to finally get off the pavement a bit more, and that took a bite out of my photography fund.

Mobility comes first. You've got to get there to get the shot. What's the old saying, "...f/8 and be there?"

I have a friend with the 5D3, 1D4 and the 1D-X. He ranks their AF with a 600/f4 II in that same order. He says that they're relatively close, but both the 1Ds handle the super-teles better with TCs.

The weight savings and dollar savings on the 500mm has me leaning that way, but, I know that I can handle the weight of the 600mm because it's about the same as my current 500mm. We'll have to see.

We're in the midst of signing a big prospect that we've been working for six-years. If signed, it'll greatly improve my retirement saving and expand my photography fund significantly. Knock wood and fingers crossed.

Dave

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by dcstep

I carry my 500/f4 by the tripod foot and have the 7D on a CPS strap around my neck with the 70-200/f4. That keeps the weight on my neck reasonable. It's still a load that I'll carry for hundreds of yards per day and up to a couple of hours. For a two-mile hike in, I really need to get a backpack for the 500/f4. I don't do that often, but I need something like that.

I've noticed that most of the pro sports photogs have their long lens on a monopod and the short cameras slung around their shoulders or necks.

I thank my junior high and high school coaches for forcing me to lift weights. I've got a linebacker build and started water skiing at age-6 and played all sports, so it may be easier for me to lug things than the average photog. (Now if I could just lose 30-pounds off my stomach, it'd be real easy going). Unfortunately the arthritus in my ankles, feet and neck, caused by those sports, somewhat offset the benefits. Believe me, those ankle sprains at 12 to 18 hurt even more at 65. (Not as acute, but longer lasting... or constant).

Dave

The problem I have with using a monopod for one rig is that you have to be really careful what you do with it when you grab the other rig hanging around your neck. You can sort of lean it against your body while using the other rig, but you risk the whole thing falling over. At least with a tripod, you can just let it sit there while you use the other rig. You can even walk a few steps away, if need be.

And I'm right there with you on the weight thing. 30lbs off my gut would be hugely beneficial. I try to do a lot of walking, but some knee injuries from my Army days and current issues with the nerves and bones in my feet have limited me as I get older. Just a couple of years ago I could speed walk 2-3 miles easily. Now a walk around campus leaves me limping. Getting old sucks. I did walk 4 miles in Boston one day while I was there. I was fine while walking, but I was aching badly later.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Speaking of lens MTF charts and full frame file quality, here's an 80% crop taken with my 500/f4 S-I and the 2.0x TC-III, on the 5D3. The S-II is supposed to be even better, but I'm already blown away with my S-I:


Goldfinch shows me his profile. by dcstep, on Flickr

I see people pooh-poohing using TCs all the time, claiming the IQ penalty is too large. I claim BULL SHIT. Those people couldn't have ever tried it. I even had one guy claim that his standards must be higher than mine, because anyone could see the distortion.

Very nice shot. And I agree, the IQ using the TCs (even the Kenko versions) is entirely acceptable. I don't know why they have such a bad rep with some folks.

[Chewy734]

Is it bad that I have a box from B&H from nearly two weeks ago that I haven't even opened? Damn work....

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by M_Six

The problem I have with using a monopod for one rig is that you have to be really careful what you do with it when you grab the other rig hanging around your neck. You can sort of lean it against your body while using the other rig, but you risk the whole thing falling over. At least with a tripod, you can just let it sit there while you use the other rig. You can even walk a few steps away, if need be.

And I'm right there with you on the weight thing. 30lbs off my gut would be hugely beneficial. I try to do a lot of walking, but some knee injuries from my Army days and current issues with the nerves and bones in my feet have limited me as I get older. Just a couple of years ago I could speed walk 2-3 miles easily. Now a walk around campus leaves me limping. Getting old sucks. I did walk 4 miles in Boston one day while I was there. I was fine while walking, but I was aching badly later.

Sorry 'bout the aches and pains. I'm with you. It's a bitch, but it's my own fault that I need to shed 30-lbs.

With a monopod or hand carrying, like I do, you've got to be wiling to put the rig on the ground. I do it all the time. I'm got lenscoat on the lenses and don't really care if the bodies show some wear. Tripods are great, but I miss too many shots with them. If I was a sideline shooter for football, then I'd use the monopod. Hand held, in the ready position is great isometric exercise, but it get hard after a few minute. When I'm expecting that, I dust off the tripod or monopod. The goldfinch shot was on my Induro tripod.

Dave

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by dcstep

...but it's my own fault that I need to shed 30-lbs.

Same here.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Chewy734

Is it bad that I have a box from B&H from nearly two weeks ago that I haven't even opened? Damn work....

That's a sin.

[Chewy734]

Originally Posted by dcstep

That's a sin.

I know.

In my defense, it's for my dad though... the EOS-M w/ 22mm lens. But, my job is to test it out and see if he'll like it.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Chewy734

I know.

In my defense, it's for my dad though... the EOS-M w/ 22mm lens. But, my job is to test it out and see if he'll like it.

What exactly is new about the M lenses? I havent much about it apart from the fact that there are only 3 or 4 on the market right now.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

What exactly is new about the M lenses? I havent much about it apart from the fact that there are only 3 or 4 on the market right now.

Actually only 2 in the US. The 22mm is insanely sharp. 100% crops are no problem with it. I haven't used the 18-55mm lens much, but it seems quite sharp as well and is very small. It has IS, which is a plus. Supposedly Canon is not planning to bring the new 11-22mm IS lens to the US.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Actually only 2 in the US. The 22mm is insanely sharp. 100% crops are no problem with it. I haven't used the 18-55mm lens much, but it seems quite sharp as well and is very small. It has IS, which is a plus. Supposedly Canon is not planning to bring the new 11-22mm IS lens to the US.

Great. We need to greymarket more crap from HK.


Do they fit EF mounts like my D7? Or is this a whole new format?

[Chewy734]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Great. We need to greymarket more crap from HK.


Do they fit EF mounts like my D7? Or is this a whole new format?

It's a whole new format, but there is an EF lens adaptor you can purchase separately, that will allow you to attach any EF lens to it. Can you imagine hooking up the tiny M body to Dave's 500mm behemoth?

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Chewy734

It's a whole new format, but there is an EF lens adaptor you can purchase separately, that will allow you to attach any EF lens to it. Can you imagine hooking up the tiny M body to Dave's 500mm behemoth?

Speaking of adapters:


My father is retiring his Canon A1 body that hes had for 30 or 40 years. He has somewhere near 25 FD or FL lenses (I cant remember which). Including a monster 800mm I want to use as a poor mans telescope.

Ive been looking for a decent adapter for a while now for my 5D or 7D (so an FD - EF adapter) and all I keep hearing is soft focus issues and the prism making contact with things.

So any leads or help would be great.

[BrokenVert]

Also heres a shot for you guys from GRC in Bristol

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Chewy734

It's a whole new format, but there is an EF lens adaptor you can purchase separately, that will allow you to attach any EF lens to it. Can you imagine hooking up the tiny M body to Dave's 500mm behemoth?

We're not there yet, but it's coming. When some AF issues are solved, I see mirrorless as the wave of the future for all shooting. I can imagine attaching a little unit, half the size of a GoPro to the back of a big lens and firing off 30-fps with files transmitted wirelessly to a storage unit on my belt or strapped to my wrist. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see that within five-years.

Dave

[dcstep]

Speaking of the moon, oh wait that's another thread (it fits better here) Induro featured me on their Induro'Blog at:

http://blog.indurogear.com/how-to-ph...ing-your-mind/

[Chewy734]

congrats, Dave! That's a great article... excellent photos too!