[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by tszene

Well, I guess they are not large enough to keep the ED program going. Which I why this thread was formed. So I beg all of you to start writing to

CustomerRelations@bmwusa.com

And let's make a difference.

True, good to let BMW know that they need to consider bringing back ED.

But even more so is for people to actually sign up to do ED. The forum is a bubble where we think ED is a popular choice. But outside of us, no one really knows about this. There has to be more awareness. Local dealers should bring this up for every new build order as a "did you know..." And lastly, we should be ok paying $XX for it to make the financials work.

I think someone posted that only 500 NA EDs are done each year. If this is true, and I was in BMWs position, I would shut it down as well. Makes no sense. Some claim that this brings brand visibility and engagement...well this is not entirely true because again, no one knows about it. Dealers are not pushing it, people are not actively participating in this, no business case. By in large, BMW takes on a relatively high cost for each ED.

Unfortunately, bringing this back cannot be quickly reversed, especially during these poor financial times and travel restrictions. However, there is a huge opportunity to build out NA PCD. The cost savings will be substantial and the barrier of entry, much lower. Flying to Europe is a commitment. Flying to PCD east and PCD west is a lot more mainstream. In addition, each performance center can also bolster non ED traffic with performance programs. Performance programs are almost pure profit with what BMW charges. I do not have BMW's financials, but I would wager that it is a money generator, especially considering how many corporate events they do.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

People keep saying "manuals are all but gone"...well, again that depends on perspective. Sure, there are much less MT options nowadays compared to 20-30 years ago, but there are still options readily available. Not all cars need a manual transmission option. For example, I am fine with regular 3/4/5 series without a MT. However, BMW has been great by providing the M2/3/4 with a MT because they're more catered towards the driving experience. Also, there are still plenty of car enthusiasts working at C-suite levels at BMW, etc. I think we will be good for some time.

In the value oriented category, you still have the venerable MX5, the mustang, Hyundai N series, etc in MT. If you want to step up, there are Porsche, Lotus, Aston Martin. If you want very niche brands, there are Morgan, BAC, Aerial, etc.

Let's give another example. During the quartz crisis, people thought mechanical watches were going to disappear. Nowadays, there has been a resurgence and mechanical watches have increased in popularity. Similar parallels can be drawn with typewriters, record players, Hi-Fi systems. Each example, people thought it was going to disappear. But in each, there were a resurgence of interest. Either by people who have previously experienced the analog pleasure of these items or new generations who have come to appreciate it.

An let me add, the car enthusiast crowd is a lot larger than the watch, typewriter, record player and Hi-Fi system crowd...

While I agree with a lot of what you posted the manual transmission "issue" is more complex than say mechanical watches.

I'll pose this question. Who are BMWs "core" customers these days? Simple question. It's soccer moms, granny's, and non-enthusiast badge seekers. Let's not forget the chinese. Non of these people care about manual transmission cars. This is most likely the last generation for them in BMW land. Honestly, I don't care and I'm more pissed about cancellation of ED, huge fugly front ends, Lexus rear ends, and loss of DCT.

Back on topic. We have a wall in our Den of framed pics of all our EDs with a Zoll plate from each trip. Amazing memories. My wife just yesterday said to me how pissed she is they cancelled it and we won't get to bring our little guy on an ED adventure. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for out time with BMW. I almost could have leased a bugs bunny ///M just to do ED but now that is cancelled. Fuck no. I'll go with a CPO 911 and ED on a Merc for the wife. Such a shame.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by tszene

Well, I guess they are not large enough to keep the ED program going. Which I why this thread was formed. So I beg all of you to start writing to

CustomerRelations@bmwusa.com

And let's make a difference.

Yup. Already told them to F off in not so many words. They couldn't care less

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

While I agree with a lot of what you posted the manual transmission "issue" is more complex than say mechanical watches.

I'll pose this question. Who are BMWs "core" customers these days? Simple question. It's soccer moms, granny's, and non-enthusiast badge seekers. Let's not forget the chinese. Non of these people care about manual transmission cars. This is most likely the last generation for them in BMW land. Honestly, I don't care and I'm more pissed about cancellation of ED, huge fugly front ends, Lexus rear ends, and loss of DCT.

Back on topic. We have a wall in our Den of framed pics of all our EDs with a Zoll plate from each trip. Amazing memories. My wife just yesterday said to me how pissed she is they cancelled it and we won't get to bring our little guy on an ED adventure. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for out time with BMW. I almost could have leased a bugs bunny ///M just to do ED but now that is cancelled. Fuck no. I'll go with a CPO 911 and ED on a Merc for the wife. Such a shame.

I appreciate your thoughtful response. I guess we shall see in 7 years time? I'm assuming that's the average lifecycle of the next gen car.

And I too I'm disappointed on ED being cancelled. It was high in my bucket list. Would have made my M2C pickup just that much more special. Luckily, I have previously visited Welt and the museum. But wow to walk down those staircase and see your car on the turnstile...

Glad you and your wife had a fantastic time and a memory that will be with you two forever.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

True, good to let BMW know that they need to consider bringing back ED.

But even more so is for people to actually sign up to do ED. The forum is a bubble where we think ED is a popular choice. But outside of us, no one really knows about this. There has to be more awareness. Local dealers should bring this up for every new build order as a "did you know..." And lastly, we should be ok paying $XX for it to make the financials work.

I think someone posted that only 500 NA EDs are done each year. If this is true, and I was in BMWs position, I would shut it down as well. Makes no sense. Some claim that this brings brand visibility and engagement...well this is not entirely true because again, no one knows about it. Dealers are not pushing it, people are not actively participating in this, no business case. By in large, BMW takes on a relatively high cost for each ED.

Unfortunately, bringing this back cannot be quickly reversed, especially during these poor financial times and travel restrictions. However, there is a huge opportunity to build out NA PCD. The cost savings will be substantial and the barrier of entry, much lower. Flying to Europe is a commitment. Flying to PCD east and PCD west is a lot more mainstream. In addition, each performance center can also bolster non ED traffic with performance programs. Performance programs are almost pure profit with what BMW charges. I do not have BMW's financials, but I would wager that it is a money generator, especially considering how many corporate events they do.

Read this thread. BMW intentionality killed off ED for NA in 2016 by changing the program and making it less favorable (shitty) financially. They then really killed it now saying no one is doing it. I would have paid a little extra to do it. No biggie.

I've done PCD. While it's fun it's not even in the same universe as ED. Driving home from SC is sooo exciting.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

I appreciate your thoughtful response. I guess we shall see in 7 years time? I'm assuming that's the average lifecycle of the next gen car.

And I too I'm disappointed on ED being cancelled. It was high in my bucket list. Would have made my M2C pickup just that much more special. Luckily, I have previously visited Welt and the museum. But wow to walk down those staircase and see your car on the turnstile...

Glad you and your wife had a fantastic time and a memory that will be with you two forever.

Thanks. They are such great adventures that we've done with extended family. Memories to last a lifetime. To kill it off was a blow for us.

I feel they should have kept the program to at least continue on with some brand loyalty and differentiate them from Audi. Let's be honest BMW is trying to be Audi at this juncture. AWD slush boxes everywhere with yuge grilles. Can't get anymore Audi then that. I had an Audi Q5 loaner last week while traveling (I use Silvercar when available) and you know what it's a better car then our X3. Interior is nicer and the car felt more solid. It's also better looking IMO.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

While I agree with a lot of what you posted the manual transmission "issue" is more complex than say mechanical watches.

I'll pose this question. Who are BMWs "core" customers these days? Simple question. It's soccer moms, granny's, and non-enthusiast badge seekers. Let's not forget the chinese. Non of these people care about manual transmission cars. This is most likely the last generation for them in BMW land. Honestly, I don't care and I'm more pissed about cancellation of ED, huge fugly front ends, Lexus rear ends, and loss of DCT.

Back on topic. We have a wall in our Den of framed pics of all our EDs with a Zoll plate from each trip. Amazing memories. My wife just yesterday said to me how pissed she is they cancelled it and we won't get to bring our little guy on an ED adventure. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for out time with BMW. I almost could have leased a bugs bunny ///M just to do ED but now that is cancelled. Fuck no. I'll go with a CPO 911 and ED on a Merc for the wife. Such a shame.

Proper first world problems right here, lol.

Big privilege for Americans to fly across the globe to pick a car up at the Welt. I am a few hours away from Munich and yet even I can't do it. Yes, I am mad; it's available only for Germany and Austria now. Us Europeans can't do an "American Delivery" either... doesn't stop anybody from buying Mustangs and Corvettes, does it. I buy a car because it fits my criteria, not that I can drive it abroad for a week.

Audi axed their ED last year, BMW followed suit and I think others will as well in the near future.

They offered manual transmissions for almost any non-SUV car up until a few years ago, not enough people were simply interested. They've built, like, five F11 535i Tourings with a stick over the course of the production run. If they're gonna offer stick shifts, it'll be the high-end sports versions that get it, hence M3/4 the only one being manual in the whole G2x family (except some base lease/rental spec 318d).

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by swagon

Proper first world problems right here, lol.

Big privilege for Americans to fly across the globe to pick a car up at the Welt. I am a few hours away from Munich and yet even I can't do it. Yes, I am mad; it's available only for Germany and Austria now. Us Europeans can't do an "American Delivery" either... doesn't stop anybody from buying Mustangs and Corvettes, does it. I buy a car because it fits my criteria, not that I can drive it abroad for a week.

Audi axed their ED last year, BMW followed suit and I think others will as well in the near future.

They offered manual transmissions for almost any non-SUV car up until a few years ago, not enough people were interested. They've built, like, five F11 535i Tourings with a stick over the course of the production run. If they're gonna offer stick shifts, it's only gonna be the high-end sports versions, hence M3/4 the only one being manual in the whole G2x family.

Well stated.

[DanG]

EU has killed ed by banning all Americans because of COVID-19. Who knows if anyone will be able to do ed this year.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by swagon

Proper first world problems right here, lol.

Big privilege for Americans to fly across the globe to pick a car up at the Welt. I am a few hours away from Munich and yet even I can't do it. Yes, I am mad; it's available only for Germany and Austria now. Us Europeans can't do an "American Delivery" either... doesn't stop anybody from buying Mustangs and Corvettes, does it. I buy a car because it fits my criteria, not that I can drive it abroad for a week.

Audi axed their ED last year, BMW followed suit and I think others will as well in the near future.

They offered manual transmissions for almost any non-SUV car up until a few years ago, not enough people were simply interested. They've built, like, five F11 535i Tourings with a stick over the course of the production run. If they're gonna offer stick shifts, it'll be the high-end sports versions that get it, hence M3/4 the only one being manual in the whole G2x family (except some base lease/rental spec 318d).

Holy shit. Am I in the right place?? That's right this is a BMW forum. Hate to break it to you but everything here is 1st world "problems"

Well I buy a car for many reasons and up until now a small part of it was brand loyalty and an amazing trip/vacation with loved ones. Brand loyalty is gone.

[NorthernDancer]

In 93/94 a very aggressive letter wring campaign started within BMWCCA to import the E36 M3 which BMW had planned NOT to import. The letter writing campaign was obviously successful.
BMWCCA is presently working to see if they can get ED for the club.

[mosaud98]

It's sad to see that BMW discontinued the European Delivery program. I remember a few years ago, I would watch people doing the European Delivery on youtube and telling myself that once I was out of college, this would be the first thing I wanted to experience. Ordering a BMW, actually picking the car up at the BMW welt, looking at all the old BMW models and futuristic one. Let us not forget driving on the Autobahn and Germany. Has anyone actually gotten the chance to experience it?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mosaud98

It's sad to see that BMW discontinued the European Delivery program. I remember a few years ago, I would watch people doing the European Delivery on youtube and telling myself that once I was out of college, this would be the first thing I wanted to experience. Ordering a BMW, actually picking the car up at the BMW welt, looking at all the old BMW models and futuristic one. Let us not forget driving on the Autobahn and Germany. Has anyone actually gotten the chance to experience it?

You should read accounts from this thread. It'll answer your question.

[kckkwan]

I just saw the ED Munich pick up pricing on the 2021 G30 ordering guide. It was published on 5/18 which was more than a week after BMW said auf wiedersehen to ED. Should we still hope that the ED is coming back somehow? Or should we just ignore it since it probably just a BMWNA internal miscommunication? 😅

Sigh...was planning to do another ED next year when my current lease is ended. I think our best bet now is BMWCCA starts another campaign to revive the program.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by kckkwan

I just saw the ED Munich pick up pricing on the 2021 G30 ordering guide. It was published on 5/18 which was more than a week after BMW said auf wiedersehen to ED. Should we still hope that the ED is coming back somehow? Or should we just ignore it since it probably just a BMWNA internal miscommunication? 😅

Sigh...was planning to do another ED next year when my current lease is ended. I think our best bet now is BMWCCA starts another campaign to revive the program.

They were allowing people to reserve an ED spot/reservation without a car allocation. So that's probably what this is for.

[kckkwan]

Originally Posted by F82PRETEND

They were allowing people to reserve an ED spot/reservation without a car allocation. So that's probably what this is for.

Yea you are right, no hope it is

Anyway, not sour grapes, but I think the situation of those folks who are scheduled for September ED is not so optimistic......

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by kckkwan

Yea you are right, no hope it is

Anyway, not sour grapes, but I think the situation of those folks who are scheduled for September ED is not so optimistic......

I am one of those...I have an appointment for what is, according to the folks at the Welt, the last ED appointment ever...5 pm on Saturday, September 26 to pick up a 2021 M2C 6MT...I hope it happens, but you're right, it's not looking great!

[kckkwan]

Originally Posted by F82PRETEND

I am one of those...I have an appointment for what is, according to the folks at the Welt, the last ED appointment ever...5 pm on Saturday, September 26 to pick up a 2021 M2C 6MT...I hope it happens, but you're right, it's not looking great!

Oh jeez, I wish you the best of luck

[kckkwan]

I think the decline of EDs were caused by many factors such as people are buying more US made models than the German made ones, dealers were not willing or having absolutely zero clue to do ED, BMW wasn’t trying hard enough to promote it and most importantly BMW changed the ED program in 2016 which made ED was not favorable financially.

So maybe the “Ultimate Blaming Targets” are BMW and some BMW owners. The so called “DECLINE” is just an excuse to me.

But I think COVID did accelerate the cancellation of ED

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by kckkwan

But I think COVID did accelerate the cancellation of ED

I think it had an effect, yes, but I don't think it was significant. We all have our speculations and opinions however.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I think it had an effect, yes, but I don't think it was significant. We all have our speculations and opinions however.

Well, if the EU imposes a travel ban on the US due to COVID19 numbers, that'll also cancel all remainings EDs, won't it?

[kckkwan]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Well, if the EU imposes a travel ban on the US due to COVID19 numbers, that'll also cancel all remainings EDs, won't it?

That’s exactly what I thought. ED was dying and COVID just provided the final nail in the coffin.