[GoingTooFast]

Can you tell me if the cars you mentioned are full optioned when they go around the 'ring' for the fastest lap time?

Shall I tell you the price of a C7, STI or, even the 1M for that matter, in my country?!

People are free to believe in whatever they want... I am not the one to blame if you live in a country where bigger normally means better. This not an opinion, it's a fact.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Can you tell me if the cars you mentioned are full optioned when they go around the 'ring' for the fastest lap time?

Shall I tell you the price of a C7, STI or, even the 1M for that matter, in my country?!

People are free to believe in whatever they want... I am not the one to blame if you live in a country where bigger normally means better. This not an opinion, it's a fact.

GTF, you guys win this one. The 4C in the ROW is a much better deal than it is here. I'm not arguing that it's a bad deal in your format, with that Ring time for the US price of $55k. I'm saying it's poor for what we'll actually be getting in the US. In colloquial terms, the weight issue makes me go from noon to six.

A C7 with the Z51 and the magneto shocks is $56.9k. A Cayman with PASM and PDK is roughly the same. An STI is $34k.

So you pay more for a car, you have healthcare, and a government who shows up for work. Enjoy your 4C, it will be massively better car the 4C I could get here.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

You are absolutely right... I have pre-ordered an Alfa 4C a couple of months back. Thus, I hope I'll be too busy driving my own soon. After all, I already have lost the right to express my opinion here and I surely will be faithful to that.

You are not be faithful.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

You are not be faithful.

I'm talking about facts only, not expressing my personal opinion!

[gonzo]

I knew it was too good to be true.

[GoingTooFast]

gonzo is just a muppet... it's a known fact:

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

GTF, you guys win this one. The 4C in the ROW is a much better deal than it is here. I'm not arguing that it's a bad deal in your format, with that Ring time for the US price of $55k. I'm saying it's poor for what we'll actually be getting in the US. In colloquial terms, the weight issue makes me go from noon to six.

A C7 with the Z51 and the magneto shocks is $56.9k. A Cayman with PASM and PDK is roughly the same. An STI is $34k.

So you pay more for a car, you have healthcare, and a government who shows up for work. Enjoy your 4C, it will be massively better car the 4C I could get here.

The facts are:

1. The Alfa 4C is more expensive in my country than in the US, 65k € for the launch edition and 55k € for the standard version
   
2. The Alfa 4C is cheaper than an equally optioned Cayman S in the US
   
3. The Alfa 4C is lighter at 2650 lbs (to be confirmed) than an equally optioned Cayman S at 2976 lbs (base version w/o options) in the US
   
4. The Alfa 4C performance doesn't rely on electronic controlled dampers or expensive ceramic brakes and the ESP can be fully disabled
   
5. The claimed Alfa 4C 0-62 mph acceleration time is less than the one claimed for the PDK 981 Cayman.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The facts are:

1. The Alfa 4C is more expensive in my country than in the US, 65k € for the launch edition and 55k € for the standard version
   
2. The Alfa 4C is cheaper than an equally optioned Cayman S in the US
   
3. The Alfa 4C is lighter at 2650 lbs (to be confirmed) than an equally optioned Cayman S at 2976 lbs (base version w/o options) in the US
   
4. The Alfa 4C performance doesn't rely on electronic controlled dampers or expensive ceramic brakes and the ESP can be fully disabled
   
5. The claimed Alfa 4C 0-62 mph acceleration time is less than the one claimed for the PDK 981 Cayman.

1) Interesting that your pricing in EU is the same as ours in USD.

2) US pricing, Cayman $52.6k and the S $63.8k.

2) Agreed, and much more appealing at your weight of at least 250 pounds lighter

3) Unless the ESP is changed on the 981, it can be fully disabled. I admit to not having payed close attention to this. However since Alfas parent company pays GM for electronic shocks for Fezza, I don't see the lack of them on the 4C as a pure positive and suspect the four leaf clover version will have them, along with plastic brakes.

4) That 0-60 time is certainly not for a 2.650 pound US version, adding 26% more weight to the car is going to heavily impair that time, likely making it no better than the regular Cayman PDK time of 5.1 as a best case scenario

Further, we don't know timing, weight or pricing of the impending turbo four Cayman, but it likely makes things even tougher when compared to the US 4C.

[gonzo]

Guessing your online personality did not go over well, wherever you went.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

1) Interesting that your pricing in EU is the same as ours in USD.

2) US pricing, Cayman $52.6k and the S $63.8k.

2) Agreed, and much more appealing at your weight of at least 250 pounds lighter

3) Unless the ESP is changed on the 981, it can be fully disabled. I admit to not having payed close attention to this. However since Alfas parent company pays GM for electronic shocks for Fezza, I don't see the lack of them on the 4C as a pure positive and suspect the four leaf clover version will have them, along with plastic brakes.

4) That 0-60 time is certainly not for a 2.650 pound US version, adding 26% more weight to the car is going to heavily impair that time, likely making it no better than the regular Cayman PDK time of 5.1 as a best case scenario

Further, we don't know timing, weight or pricing of the impending turbo four Cayman, but it likely makes things even tougher when compared to the US 4C.

Facts:

1. As of today, 1 € is equivalent to 1.3522 US $
   
2. The ESP can NOT be fully disabled in any Cayman, past and present
   
3. 4.5 s is also the 0-60 mph acceleration time mentioned in CarAndDrive which is the only car magazine claiming that the Alfa 4C weight will be around 2650 lbs in the US
   
4. The base Cayman performance isn't on par with the others

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Guessing your online personality did not go over well, wherever you went.

The fact is the muppet gonzo always has something to say and it's not about cars:

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Guessing your online personality did not go over well, wherever you went.

LOL.

[M3_WC]

Most recent reviews I have seen have found some faults in the car. Most common things are lack of power and fit/finish quality issues.

[GoingTooFast]

Links?!

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Links?!

Could use a crisper throttle. Turbo lag. Downshifts could be quicker. Interior quality not up to Cayman. Basically the conclusion, Cayman is a better quality car.

Another don't remember what review, said the interior is rudimentary and has a lot of hard plastics.

[GoingTooFast]

Nothing about fit/finish quality issues then?!

The fact is the Cayman is built by germans and the Alfa 4C was envisioned and built by italians.

This animalistic nature and the fact it's so basic in a way and so sophisticated in others... it's a sort of car that no one else would build except the italians.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Nothing about fit/finish quality issues then?!

The fact is the Cayman is built by germans and the Alfa 4C was envisioned and built by italians.

Video does state the interior is not up to Cayman standards.

I think it is Autocar that mentions the rudimentary interior and all the hard plastics. Apparently the dashboard is just big piece of cheap hard plastic.

[Red Bread]

Now the rumor is that Fiat dealers are out and Maserati dealers will sell and service the 4C. This poor thing is doomed before it even gets here.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Now the rumor is that Fiat dealers are out and Maserati dealers will sell and service the 4C. This poor thing is doomed before it even gets here.

Fact:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

All I know is that the Alfa Romeo 8C was sold in the United States by Maserati dealers.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Video does state the interior is not up to Cayman standards.

Facts:

1. No one is saying the opposite.
   
2. That's one of the reasons why the Cayman is heavier than the Alfa 4C

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I think it is Autocar that mentions the rudimentary interior and all the hard plastics. Apparently the dashboard is just big piece of cheap hard plastic.

Facts:

1. Rudimentary but with a carbonfiber monocoque
   
2. A 'race car' by definition has a rudimentary interior and normally uses carbonfiber, both in order to lower the overall car weight (while keeping rigidity in the latter case)
   
3. Luxury interior is not a 'race car' attribute
   
4. It's not a fault, it's a desired characteristic

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Fact:

No kidding, the simple fact is that Alfa is on extremely thin ice reentering the US market and FIAT dealers were counting on Alfa sales and service to prop up their struggling dealerships. Now they're getting skipped and there are 69 Mazzer dealers in the US and over 200 FIAT dealers. Even with only 1,500 4C (which now looks comically optimistic) sales planned here, it's not hard to see that once again, the Italians are busy shooting themselves in the foot.

[Red Bread]

Wait, they made a PowerPoint about it? Oh, now it's going to happen!

Alfa has threatened to come back here pretty much since they left. This has failboat written all over it.