[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by subrven1

F30 lacks pretty much all of what you say. Driving dynamics in my F30 suck. On Center steer feel and returnability issues are like those seen on the Focus.

Actually, the current Ford Focus is a highly engaging car. The F30, if not properly equipped, might not even be that good with a number of intangibles.

[subrven1]

Great Point. Completely Agree

Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar

The entire car is a consumable...lol

I'm far from lucky. It's covered...if I need them...they cover. My usage wasn't excessive and I don't care what the competition covers - I care about what the car that I'm paying $$$ for covers.

Regardless of my brake consumption rate, the fact that they are moving away is concerning and definitely a bad move. Enthusiast, non-enthusiast, fake enthusiast, forum enthusiast, basement enthusiast - at the end of the day, they're all people that purchased the car regardless of what the forum warriors want to classify them as.


Reducing duration + reducing coverage = BAD MOVE

Stand behind the brand and deliver a truly exceptional driving and ownership experience - is exactly what my point is. If you miss that, I can't help you.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by subrven1

Are you kidding me? Spend 50K + on a car and then extend brake life by depending on Engine braking?

It's always a good idea, when moving down an extended grade, to use the transmission rather than the brakes to maintain speed - whether you drive a BMW, a semi, a school bus, or a Honda Fit.

But frankly there are no grades anywhere near Detroit where you would have the need to do that. He was talking about situations like we have here in Colorado, where we give back 2400 feet in elevation over an 8 mile distance between the Eisenhower Tunnel and Silverthorne.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by shark715

What sort of deposits are you talking about? I've never heard of this, but I'm interested as I'm always careful not to abuse/overheat the brakes, but yet I've had rotors warp and require replacement. Maybe I was "under using" them? Thanks.

Pad deposits. Will feel like a warped rotor, but unless you actually measure the run out of the rotor, you will not know it is not a warped rotor.

Need to get the pads up to proper operating temp.

These cars are supposed to be thoroughbreds, and need to be treated as such. Driving them around like grandma driving a Camry is not good for them.

I should point out that improper torque of the wheel bolts CAN warp the rotors. Make sure who ever is putting wheels on and off is torquing the wheels properly with a good torque wrench. Most tire shops just blast the bolts on with an impact gun. Instant warp.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by WilliCO

It's always a good idea, when moving down an extended grade, to use the transmission rather than the brakes to maintain speed - whether you drive a BMW, a semi, a school bus, or a Honda Fit.

But frankly there are no grades anywhere near Detroit where you would have the need to do that. He was talking about situations like we have here in Colorado, where we give back 2400 feet in elevation over an 8 mile distance between the Eisenhower Tunnel and Silverthorne.

On the hill you are referencing, it's more than a "good idea" in a semi...given that the alternatives are one of the the runaway truck ramps...or death :-) Don't you just enjoy inhaling all that asbestos when the truckers on that section of I-70 cook their brakes? :-)

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by shark715

On the hill you are referencing, it's more than a "good idea" in a semi...given that the alternatives are one of the the runaway truck ramps...or death :-) Don't you just enjoy inhaling all that asbestos when the truckers on that section of I-70 cook their brakes? :-)

Yep, that is a distinctive smell. First few times you smell it you think your own car is about to explode...

[subrven1]

Upto 2015 Focus, Spent DAYS at Michigan Assembly plant Driving new Cars for Returnablility Checks!!!

Originally Posted by WilliCO

Actually, the current Ford Focus is a highly engaging car. The F30, if not properly equipped, might not even be that good with a number of intangibles.

[The Swami]

Leasing is starting to look like a better option for new BMW's if this is what's in store for scheduled maintenance.

[kent11202]

Originally Posted by WilliCO

It's always a good idea, when moving down an extended grade, to use the transmission rather than the brakes to maintain speed - whether you drive a BMW, a semi, a school bus, or a Honda Fit.

But frankly there are no grades anywhere near Detroit where you would have the need to do that. He was talking about situations like we have here in Colorado, where we give back 2400 feet in elevation over an 8 mile distance between the Eisenhower Tunnel and Silverthorne.

Thanks WilliCo (and Shark715) -pay attention subrven1 - the concept is to NOT NEEDLESSLY wear out the brakes. Nobody is advocating use of manually shifting to save brakes in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

ETA To remove a snarky and uncalled for portion of my original response

[kent11202]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I should point out that improper torque of the wheel bolts CAN warp the rotors. Make sure who ever is putting wheels on and off is torquing the wheels properly with a good torque wrench. Most tire shops just blast the bolts on with an impact gun. Instant warp.

BINGO! I'd bet that happens more often than people realize....hmmmm, maybe they then want to blame BMW for the problem?

[BentZero]

It sounds like going to the lower coverage doesn't have a gigantic impact on the wallet, but it does make me wonder if BMW doesn't have the same faith in their product that they used to.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I should point out that improper torque of the wheel bolts CAN warp the rotors. Make sure who ever is putting wheels on and off is torquing the wheels properly with a good torque wrench. Most tire shops just blast the bolts on with an impact gun. Instant warp.

Unfortunately you are so right. Every time I have wheels installed I retorque the bolts when I arrive home, and I can't tell you how many times I've had to use a breaker bar to loosen overtightened bolts. Unfortunately at many garages and dealers tire installation is left to the technician who is lowest on the totem pole, and these guys often get paid by the job and not the hour, so they are rushing. And as you pointed out, by the time I arrive home and re-torque, the damage may already be done. And you may not immediately realize your car has been damaged, much less be able to prove who did it. Interestingly, in my experience the technicians who seem to be the most careful are the one ones at Costco.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by kent11202

BINGO! I'd bet that happens more often than people realize....hmmmm, maybe they then want to blame BMW for the problem?

I am a tech at Acura, and Acura will no longer pay us to replace "warped" brakes. They consider it damage from improper wheel install ONLY. So, the last tech that worked on the car is going to be machining the rotors for free.

We ALL hand torque every single set of wheels. Only time our shop sees warped rotors now is from wheels that were installed somewhere else.

[kent11202]

Originally Posted by shark715

Unfortunately you are so right. Every time I have wheels installed I retorque the bolts when I arrive home, and I can't tell you how many times I've had to use a breaker bar to loosen overtightened bolts. Unfortunately at many garages and dealers tire installation is left to the technician who is lowest on the totem pole, and these guys often get paid by the job and not the hour, so they are rushing. And as you pointed out, by the time I arrive home and re-torque, the damage may already be done. And you may not immediately realize your car has been damaged, much less be able to prove who did it. Interestingly, in my experience the technicians who seem to be the most careful are the one ones at Costco.

That's a good practice and I'm more than a little surprised that Costco seems to be a cut above - good for them.

Kind of reminds me of an incident that happened to me decades ago when buying new tires. As I got near home, I heard this God awful racket. Turns out THREE lug nuts were off their studs and banging around inside the hub cap*

*For the younger posters, in the old days, cars didn't have aluminum wheels. Instead they had these shiny things that were pretty much hammered onto the wheels and covered the lug nuts. These things could trap stuff inside like rocks and lug nuts that came off.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

So, the last tech that worked on the car is going to be machining the rotors for free.

I'm surprised your shop machines rotors at all. I've noticed more and more shops don't want to machine rotors anymore as the rotors are being made thinner and thinner to reduce weight, and they are saying that machining often is just a temporary fix until the first time the rotor gets hot and warps again.

[kent11202]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I am a tech at Acura, and Acura will no longer pay us to replace "warped" brakes. They consider it damage from improper wheel install ONLY. So, the last tech that worked on the car is going to be machining the rotors for free.

We ALL hand torque every single set of wheels. Only time our shop sees warped rotors now is from wheels that were installed somewhere else.

Good for Acura AND your shop. The little familiarity I have with warped rotors indicates the wheels were over tightened, the driver CONSTANTLY rode the brakes (particularly down hill) or they beat the crap out of the brakes because they drive like they're in a Formula One car. The one other issue involves shaving warped rotors which makes them thinner and more prone to warping even if the driver isn't beating the car to death. I understand they can now perform this task without taking the wheels off the car - I'd prefer they be mounted on a lathe but, what do I know anyway (old school stuff).

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by shark715

I'm surprised your shop machines rotors at all. I've noticed more and more shops don't want to machine rotors anymore as the rotors are being made thinner and thinner to reduce weight, and they are saying that machining often is just a temporary fix until the first time the rotor gets hot and warps again.

We do it all the time. Hardly replace rotors, usually good for the life of the car. Acuras tend to be less hard on rotors I guess. Most of our cars have a full 2mm between new and worn out. You can machine a rotor many times before you cut off 2mm, well, as long as you are doing it properly. Worked on a TSX not long ago that had 700,000 km, and still had the original rotors front and rear.

It is much more accurate to machine the rotors on the car, machining them on a lathe is not precise enough. When you do it on the car, it is taking into account the runout of the hub as well to make a surface that is running perfectly true.

Acura says we can ONLY machine them on the car for this reason.

I don't care how hard you drive the car, that will not warp a rotor. I have been heavily involved in racing for many years. Racecars don't warp rotors, and we literally get them glowing red. You may get terrible pad transfer from stopping the car with overheated hot pads, but not warped.

[kent11202]

Originally Posted by shark715

I'm surprised your shop machines rotors at all. I've noticed more and more shops don't want to machine rotors anymore as the rotors are being made thinner and thinner to reduce weight, and they are saying that machining often is just a temporary fix until the first time the rotor gets hot and warps again.

You beat me by 9 minutes Shark

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by subrven1

Are you kidding me? Spend 50K + on a car and then extend brake life by depending on Engine braking?

I bought a BMW because i enjoy driving. The maintenance of brakes was great because you could LOVE your BMW.

So you can't anymore because you'd have to pay to replace them yourself?

Weird, I enjoyed all the other cars I've ever owned in my life...and I've had to pay for all maintenance out of pocket...I lived.

EDIT: Wait, that's a lie, Infiniti gave me my first oil change for free...but it didn't cover synthetic oil so I bought the oil myself and had them use that.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by subrven1

F30 lacks pretty much all of what you say. Driving dynamics in my F30 suck. On Center steer feel and returnability issues are like those seen on the Focus.

Sucks for you, why'd you buy it?

Did you not test drive it prior? If not, that's on you.

[MightyMouseTech]

I am honestly glad they are covering less maintenance. I prefer to do my own maintenance, as I will make sure it is done perfectly. The less time my car spends at the dealer the better.

I don't even like taking my car to the dealer for it's "free" oil changes, only do it to maintain my warranty.

[subrven1]

The test drive was not long enough to be able to come to a good judgement on the car. I have had it for 2 months now and needless to say i am not impressed.

I am moving up from a Fusion to a BMW, upgrade on every other facet except steering. And now the Free maintenance takes a hit.

I am not a track guy so should not affect me much but the fact that you are getting lesser and lesser for your pretty penny is bothersome

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Sucks for you, why'd you buy it?

Did you not test drive it prior? If not, that's on you.