[M_Six]

My expectations for my new bike may have been a tad overblown. I had a rough time adjusting to the new rig today. Mostly the shifting. My previous bike had thumb/forefinger shifters with a number scale and 24 gears (3 front, 8 rear). The new bike has shifters built into the brake levers and has only two front gears. With my previous bike, I had found the sweet spot of gearing to be middle gear up front and 2-6 in the rear. Using just those gears, I was able to keep a nice steady cadence without wearing out my legs or my lungs. I couldn't settle on a sweet spot on the new bike today. It seemed I was trapped between a gear that kept my cadence in the 60's, which wore my legs out, or put me in the high 80's, which winded me. There seemed to be that much of a difference between just two gears.

The stock saddle on this one has to go as well. The pain is in a different place than with the previous saddle, but it's no less severe. The LBS agreed to let me swap out saddle until I find one that I like, so I'll be taking advantage of that offer. But the one that Mr. Tonka posted about seems like it would solve a few issues. If I can't find one at the LBS, I'll start trying online suppliers.

My hands are doing better with the new bike, largely because I have a choice of positions where I didn't with the previous bike. I have the next 3 days off, so I'll have plenty of time to experiment and learn.

[wdb]

Multiple hand positions - and you're already using them! Excellent.

My experience with modern shift mechanisms is pretty limited but they tend to have 9 or 10 gears in back these days. You may have to experiment; for example try the smaller chainring (front gear) and, say, the 4th rear cog, and compare it to the next larger rear cog + the large chainring.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by wdb

Multiple hand positions - and you're already using them! Excellent.

My experience with modern shift mechanisms is pretty limited but they tend to have 9 or 10 gears in back these days. You may have to experiment; for example try the smaller chainring (front gear) and, say, the 4th rear cog, and compare it to the next larger rear cog + the large chainring.

That's my goal for the next ride or two. With 2 up and 9 back, I need to relearn the gearing and see what works. I'm going to hit some hills and make sure I can smoothly transition from downhill high gears to uphill low gears on the rollers we have. And on Thursday the LBS is installing a kickstand and tightening any cables that have slacked from initial use, so I'll take that opportunity to take him up on his offer to try out a different saddle.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by M_Six

That's my goal for the next ride or two. With 2 up and 9 back, I need to relearn the gearing and see what works. I'm going to hit some hills and make sure I can smoothly transition from downhill high gears to uphill low gears on the rollers we have. And on Thursday the LBS is installing a kickstand and tightening any cables that have slacked from initial use, so I'll take that opportunity to take him up on his offer to try out a different saddle.

You can change out your cassette (collection of rear cogs) to suit your riding style. For instance, i have an 11spd and my cassette is an 11tooth - 28tooth. If i were only going to ride flat areas, i would change that to an 11-23 which keeps the ratios very close. But because i roll out in the hills often enough to not want to change cassettes between rides, i keep the 11-28 because i'm able to push enough on the flats to stay in the 3-4 close gear ratios.

here is a gear calculator for you to play with. It's pretty self explanatory and takes into account several variables. Such as drive train loss, incline, wind and weight resistance. With a little bit of experience on your current set up, you'll be able to compare what you have to available cassette options which can help you make an informed decision should you choose to buy a new cassette.

http://www.bicyclecalculator.co.uk/d...dencespeed.htm

It won't take long to learn the new shifting dynamic.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

You can change out your cassette (collection of rear cogs) to suit your riding style. For instance, i have an 11spd and my cassette is an 11tooth - 28tooth. If i were only going to ride flat areas, i would change that to an 11-23 which keeps the ratios very close. But because i roll out in the hills often enough to not want to change cassettes between rides, i keep the 11-28 because i'm able to push enough on the flats to stay in the 3-4 close gear ratios.

here is a gear calculator for you to play with. It's pretty self explanatory and takes into account several variables. Such as drive train loss, incline, wind and weight resistance. With a little bit of experience on your current set up, you'll be able to compare what you have to available cassette options which can help you make an informed decision should you choose to buy a new cassette.

http://www.bicyclecalculator.co.uk/d...dencespeed.htm

It won't take long to learn the new shifting dynamic.

Thanks for that calculator. As always, the proof will be in the climbing on the real hills. Today was lawn mowing and walking day, so no ride. Tomorrow will be walking and riding later. I plan on hitting the hill between my house and the office to see if this bike takes the hill easier than my Verve 2.

One of the things that keeps me interested in this program is the data collection and analysis. Sounds geeky, but it's kind of cool to see how calories burned vs calories taken in can affect so much. Things like cadence can have a profound effect on the overall riding experience. And the Garmin stats from my rides show how consistency is really important and can be used as a measurement of improved performance. Along those lines, I'm wondering if I should be looking at collecting power stats (Watts). Is it worth the investment?

[dc503]

Originally Posted by M_Six

One of the things that keeps me interested in this program is the data collection and analysis. Sounds geeky, but it's kind of cool to see how calories burned vs calories taken in can affect so much. Things like cadence can have a profound effect on the overall riding experience. And the Garmin stats from my rides show how consistency is really important and can be used as a measurement of improved performance. Along those lines, I'm wondering if I should be looking at collecting power stats (Watts). Is it worth the investment?

It's awesome that you're keen on learning the data side and applying that info, but I'd hold off on power data as long as you can. I would recommend a Heart Rate monitor. The gains you can make this early just learning how your body feels and perceived exertion will likely be pretty significant for awhile.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by dc503

It's awesome that you're keen on learning the data side and applying that info, but I'd hold off on power data as long as you can. I would recommend a Heart Rate monitor. The gains you can make this early just learning how your body feels and perceived exertion will likely be pretty significant for awhile.

Thanks. Been wearing an HRM since the beginning. The data from that caused me to go see my doc and switch around some BP meds to get my heart rate down while riding. It worked out nicely. That's why I'm so into the data end. It shows you what's really going on when you ride. I've been trying to balance heart rate and cadence to find the best range for aerobics and fat burning without spiking too high. I was just settling on a cadence range with my first bike when I moved up to the Crossrip. Now I need to find that range again.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Thanks. Been wearing an HRM since the beginning. The data from that caused me to go see my doc and switch around some BP meds to get my heart rate down while riding. It worked out nicely. That's why I'm so into the data end. It shows you what's really going on when you ride. I've been trying to balance heart rate and cadence to find the best range for aerobics and fat burning without spiking too high. I was just settling on a cadence range with my first bike when I moved up to the Crossrip. Now I need to find that range again.

I'm not sure if this is close to you, but this bike shop is a Stages dealer who can get you a stages demo power meter.


CHAMPAIGN CYCLE
506 S Country Fair Drive Champaign, IL 61821 US

I think power meters are an excellent training tool and there is no tool that will help you train smarter/faster than a power meter, save for a professional coach. But it's also cool for data collection and is a great tool for managing energy expenditure on longer rides.

Stages is likely the best option for you. There are Garmin Vectors, Power tap P1 pedals, power tap hub, power tap chain rings and other high end crank/chain ring options. I would say the power tap chain rings are probably the second best option for you.

A hub based power meter is inexpensive but you have to either buy a wheel with it installed or buy it and have it laced into your existing wheel, assuming they produce a hub with the same number of spokes as your existing wheel. This gives you a single power number, no L/R specific specs.

The high end stuff is is $1500 and up. All the bells and whistles.

The pedal option is really nice because you can just switch them from bike to bike without any worries as they will fit any bike. .....But, you have to get clipless shoes and experience the clipless learning curve. (clipless = mechanically attaching your shoes to the pedals) About $450 for a single pedal to $900 for dual pedals. This will give you L/R power stats independently. When you use a single pedal, it doubles the power reading.

Chain rings have to be compatible with your current cranks and run about $700 to $800 plus install. These also show L/R power stats independently.

The stages power meter is mounted in the non-drive side crank arm. So you'll have to buy a non-drive side crank arm and swap yours out. So long as your next bike utilizes the same bottom bracket and same length crank arms, you'll be able to swap them out. This is a single side power meter and will double the power read by the left crank arm.

They are great fun to geek out on but as others have said, not necessary. HR is another metric that you can use similarly to watts, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Power is power no matter going up hill, down hill, into the wind or with a tail wind. It is also the most accurate way to calculate calories burned.

All of these power meter options include built in cadence sensors too.

Edit: Looks like Stages doesn't make a power meter in a crank arm that matches your Crossrip 1 bottom bracket style. So you'd likely have to buy a crank set from them assuming your bike will accept a comparable bottom bracket. If not, i'd say go with a single pedal option, unless you're in love with having L/R data recorded independently. But you'd better confirm that for yourself with one of their dealers.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Guys what are you talking about ? It's the Tour the France !

In the third stage the peleton rode over the circuit of Spa-Francorchamps (Belgium) and the victory was for the world champion Peter Sagan .

[M4Now!]

M_Six, I wouldn't worry about a power meter yet. If you're wearing a HR monitor and using a Garmin, you're getting a great data set. Tonka is absolutely right that power data is very useful, but mostly to very serious riders who are on a specific training plan.

Re your gearing, were you in the big chainring when you had trouble finding the best gear? Gear ratio changes between gears are larger when you're in the big ring, so a change to the smaller ring can give you finer adjustment. Try not to cross-chain tho (e.g. small chainring / smallest cog on the cassette).

Cheers

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I'm not sure if this is close to you, but this bike shop is a Stages dealer who can get you a stages demo power meter.


CHAMPAIGN CYCLE
506 S Country Fair Drive Champaign, IL 61821 US

I think power meters are an excellent training tool and there is no tool that will help you train smarter/faster than a power meter, save for a professional coach. But it's also cool for data collection and is a great tool for managing energy expenditure on longer rides.

Stages is likely the best option for you. There are Garmin Vectors, Power tap P1 pedals, power tap hub, power tap chain rings and other high end crank/chain ring options. I would say the power tap chain rings are probably the second best option for you.

A hub based power meter is inexpensive but you have to either buy a wheel with it installed or buy it and have it laced into your existing wheel, assuming they produce a hub with the same number of spokes as your existing wheel. This gives you a single power number, no L/R specific specs.

The high end stuff is is $1500 and up. All the bells and whistles.

The pedal option is really nice because you can just switch them from bike to bike without any worries as they will fit any bike. .....But, you have to get clipless shoes and experience the clipless learning curve. (clipless = mechanically attaching your shoes to the pedals) About $450 for a single pedal to $900 for dual pedals. This will give you L/R power stats independently. When you use a single pedal, it doubles the power reading.

Chain rings have to be compatible with your current cranks and run about $700 to $800 plus install. These also show L/R power stats independently.

The stages power meter is mounted in the non-drive side crank arm. So you'll have to buy a non-drive side crank arm and swap yours out. So long as your next bike utilizes the same bottom bracket and same length crank arms, you'll be able to swap them out. This is a single side power meter and will double the power read by the left crank arm.

They are great fun to geek out on but as others have said, not necessary. HR is another metric that you can use similarly to watts, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Power is power no matter going up hill, down hill, into the wind or with a tail wind. It is also the most accurate way to calculate calories burned.

All of these power meter options include built in cadence sensors too.

Edit: Looks like Stages doesn't make a power meter in a crank arm that matches your Crossrip 1 bottom bracket style. So you'd likely have to buy a crank set from them assuming your bike will accept a comparable bottom bracket. If not, i'd say go with a single pedal option, unless you're in love with having L/R data recorded independently. But you'd better confirm that for yourself with one of their dealers.

Hmm, guess I'll wait on that a bit. I need to recover from the cost of the new bike first. Next time I'm in Champaign and have some time, I'll go talk to them anyway. I know exactly where that shop is.

Originally Posted by M4Now!

M_Six, I wouldn't worry about a power meter yet. If you're wearing a HR monitor and using a Garmin, you're getting a great data set. Tonka is absolutely right that power data is very useful, but mostly to very serious riders who are on a specific training plan.

Re your gearing, were you in the big chainring when you had trouble finding the best gear? Gear ratio changes between gears are larger when you're in the big ring, so a change to the smaller ring can give you finer adjustment. Try not to cross-chain tho (e.g. small chainring / smallest cog on the cassette).

Cheers

Yes, I was on the larger chainring. Tonight I'm going to try some of the hills around me and I'll try riding with the smaller chainring instead since it'll be mostly low-gear stuff. I'll remember to shift to the larger chainring before going downhill and using the smaller cogs. Thanks for that heads up.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Guys what are you talking about ? It's the Tour the France !

In the third stage the peleton rode over the circuit of Spa-Francorchamps (Belgium) and the victory was for the world champion Peter Sagan .

Next time, try to not ruin the outcome for us over here in the west.

[M_Six]

Well this bike is certainly a lot more hill friendly than my former bike. I was even making good progress straight up the nasty 8% hill behind my house. Which leads me to a biking etiquette/safety question.

The entrance to our street is right at the crest of the aforementioned 8% hill. The hill is blind for drivers going up or down, but you can see both directions pulling out of our street. This is a rural Illinois road, so the speed limit is 55 MPH, although lots of people do 60-70 on that road, which is lunacy over that blind hill with all the wildlife and kids and bikes and farm tractors we have on our roads. Nonetheless, people do it.

So on my last ride a couple of days ago, I was heading towards our street just before the hill drops away. I saw a car coming up behind me and tried to make it into our street before it got to me. I even signaled that I was going to turn in. Just as I made the turn, a young girl (might have been a teenager) driving the car went blasting over the hill almost completely in the opposite lane. While I understand she was giving me what she thought was plenty of room, my heart was in my throat at the thought of what would have happened had a car been coming up the hill. There's no way she could have known no one was coming.

So tonight I was coming up the hill and I heard a car blasting up the road behind me. One of these 60-70 MPH types. Because of his speed and the fact I was approaching the middle of the hill, I just pulled off into a driveway to give him the whole road so he wouldn't have to move way over into the oncoming lane, which again, is blind. I turned around in the driveway and tried the hill again, but again a string of cars came along just as I was getting near the top of the hill. Again, I pulled off the side rather than make them move way over near the crest of the hill. The last car in the line was a Jeep with the doors off and the guy stopped to ask if I was ok. I told him I was just getting out of his way so he didn't have to move over on the blind side of the hill, but he laughed that off like it was no big deal.

Ideally, these drivers should just slow down a bit and move over enough to avoid me but not expose themselves to a head-on collision situation, but they don't. They just keep the hammer down and blast by on the far side of the road.

So how do you folks handle situations where your presence on the road might create a dangerous situation where drivers won't slow down and play nice? I could just not give a shit and let them worry about themselves, but if they're still barreling up behind me when a car suddenly appears coming over the hill, they could swerve back and nail me. So there's a bit of self-preservation interest here as well.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Well this bike is certainly a lot more hill friendly than my former bike. I was even making good progress straight up the nasty 8% hill behind my house. Which leads me to a biking etiquette/safety question.

The entrance to our street is right at the crest of the aforementioned 8% hill. The hill is blind for drivers going up or down, but you can see both directions pulling out of our street. This is a rural Illinois road, so the speed limit is 55 MPH, although lots of people do 60-70 on that road, which is lunacy over that blind hill with all the wildlife and kids and bikes and farm tractors we have on our roads. Nonetheless, people do it.

So on my last ride a couple of days ago, I was heading towards our street just before the hill drops away. I saw a car coming up behind me and tried to make it into our street before it got to me. I even signaled that I was going to turn in. Just as I made the turn, a young girl (might have been a teenager) driving the car went blasting over the hill almost completely in the opposite lane. While I understand she was giving me what she thought was plenty of room, my heart was in my throat at the thought of what would have happened had a car been coming up the hill. There's no way she could have known no one was coming.

So tonight I was coming up the hill and I heard a car blasting up the road behind me. One of these 60-70 MPH types. Because of his speed and the fact I was approaching the middle of the hill, I just pulled off into a driveway to give him the whole road so he wouldn't have to move way over into the oncoming lane, which again, is blind. I turned around in the driveway and tried the hill again, but again a string of cars came along just as I was getting near the top of the hill. Again, I pulled off the side rather than make them move way over near the crest of the hill. The last car in the line was a Jeep with the doors off and the guy stopped to ask if I was ok. I told him I was just getting out of his way so he didn't have to move over on the blind side of the hill, but he laughed that off like it was no big deal.

Ideally, these drivers should just slow down a bit and move over enough to avoid me but not expose themselves to a head-on collision situation, but they don't. They just keep the hammer down and blast by on the far side of the road.

So how do you folks handle situations where your presence on the road might create a dangerous situation where drivers won't slow down and play nice? I could just not give a shit and let them worry about themselves, but if they're still barreling up behind me when a car suddenly appears coming over the hill, they could swerve back and nail me. So there's a bit of self-preservation interest here as well.

I think i understand the situation. Down here, so long as i'm sure the people behind me can see me, i take the initiate and take the whole lane. The bike laws down here state that if there isn't enough space for a car to give you 3' clearance while staying in the designated lane, the cyclist should take the lane and while the motorist needs to wait for a safe place to overtake.

In certain situations, where it's dangerous for a car to pass and i know they have clear line of sight of me, i'll take the whole lane and force them to slow down until it's safe to pass. Though, it's much easier when your riding with a buddy who also has a super bright rear flashing light. Two red lights side by side are quickly acknowledged by drivers as a full size vehicle.

You're right, some times they think i'll be ok to pass and it's just dumb luck they don't get into a head on collision.

That being said, when a cyclist goes up against a car, the car always wins. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor and your action of pulling off can be warranted.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I think i understand the situation. Down here, so long as i'm sure the people behind me can see me, i take the initiate and take the whole lane. The bike laws down here state that if there isn't enough space for a car to give you 3' clearance while staying in the designated lane, the cyclist should take the lane and while the motorist needs to wait for a safe place to overtake.

In certain situations, where it's dangerous for a car to pass and i know they have clear line of sight of me, i'll take the whole lane and force them to slow down until it's safe to pass. Though, it's much easier when your riding with a buddy who also has a super bright rear flashing light. Two red lights side by side are quickly acknowledged by drivers as a full size vehicle.

You're right, some times they think i'll be ok to pass and it's just dumb luck they don't get into a head on collision.

That being said, when a cyclist goes up against a car, the car always wins. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor and your action of pulling off can be warranted.

I've seen groups of cyclists doing that on farm roads up around the U of I, sometimes to the extreme where they're taking up the whole width of the road and you can't pass even when you have a clear line of sight. But out by myself I don't think I'd test that option. Too many loonies here. I'll just have to make sure I have a clear road behind me before starting up the hill. The straight leading up to the hill is over a half mile, so if no one is in sight, I should have time to climb the hill. I just should have made sure I had the space this evening.

[wdb]

I don't ride on roads where cars drive that fast, with some exceptions where there is a wide shoulder. Even then I cringe the whole time. Taking over the whole lane is what I usually do in a situation like a blind hill or turn, but I'm not certain I'd try it on the road you describe!

Legally speaking cars are supposed to yield to horses, bicycles, and pedestrians. But we all know how well that works.

[dc503]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Well this bike is certainly a lot more hill friendly than my former bike. I was even making good progress straight up the nasty 8% hill behind my house. Which leads me to a biking etiquette/safety question.

The entrance to our street is right at the crest of the aforementioned 8% hill. The hill is blind for drivers going up or down, but you can see both directions pulling out of our street. This is a rural Illinois road, so the speed limit is 55 MPH, although lots of people do 60-70 on that road, which is lunacy over that blind hill with all the wildlife and kids and bikes and farm tractors we have on our roads. Nonetheless, people do it.

So on my last ride a couple of days ago, I was heading towards our street just before the hill drops away. I saw a car coming up behind me and tried to make it into our street before it got to me. I even signaled that I was going to turn in. Just as I made the turn, a young girl (might have been a teenager) driving the car went blasting over the hill almost completely in the opposite lane. While I understand she was giving me what she thought was plenty of room, my heart was in my throat at the thought of what would have happened had a car been coming up the hill. There's no way she could have known no one was coming.

So tonight I was coming up the hill and I heard a car blasting up the road behind me. One of these 60-70 MPH types. Because of his speed and the fact I was approaching the middle of the hill, I just pulled off into a driveway to give him the whole road so he wouldn't have to move way over into the oncoming lane, which again, is blind. I turned around in the driveway and tried the hill again, but again a string of cars came along just as I was getting near the top of the hill. Again, I pulled off the side rather than make them move way over near the crest of the hill. The last car in the line was a Jeep with the doors off and the guy stopped to ask if I was ok. I told him I was just getting out of his way so he didn't have to move over on the blind side of the hill, but he laughed that off like it was no big deal.

Ideally, these drivers should just slow down a bit and move over enough to avoid me but not expose themselves to a head-on collision situation, but they don't. They just keep the hammer down and blast by on the far side of the road.

So how do you folks handle situations where your presence on the road might create a dangerous situation where drivers won't slow down and play nice? I could just not give a shit and let them worry about themselves, but if they're still barreling up behind me when a car suddenly appears coming over the hill, they could swerve back and nail me. So there's a bit of self-preservation interest here as well.

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I think i understand the situation. Down here, so long as i'm sure the people behind me can see me, i take the initiate and take the whole lane. The bike laws down here state that if there isn't enough space for a car to give you 3' clearance while staying in the designated lane, the cyclist should take the lane and while the motorist needs to wait for a safe place to overtake.

In certain situations, where it's dangerous for a car to pass and i know they have clear line of sight of me, i'll take the whole lane and force them to slow down until it's safe to pass. Though, it's much easier when your riding with a buddy who also has a super bright rear flashing light. Two red lights side by side are quickly acknowledged by drivers as a full size vehicle.

You're right, some times they think i'll be ok to pass and it's just dumb luck they don't get into a head on collision.

That being said, when a cyclist goes up against a car, the car always wins. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor and your action of pulling off can be warranted.

No catch all for this one, its tough. In addition to your signal, you'll get visibility before them, so using hand signals to slow them down and/or a thumbs up as soon as you can see them clear is what I'd initially do. If I have a bailout, I'll take the initiative and get out of the way if I feel them or me in danger (because I'm sensible, go figure). Otherwise, I'll take more room like Tonka suggests, it increases your visibility and increases your ability to impede in a positive way. They might be angry at you but it's worth it for both parties safety, even if they don't realize it.

[Mr Tonka]

So, the TDF is essentially over for me, unless the decision to eject Sagan is appealed and reversed. Though i doubt there is a possibly of that. UCI would have to agree that they made a snap judgement and were wrong for that to happen. Not because Sagan is gone, but i just can't get behind the decision.

It's my opinion, after watching several angles frame by frame, that Sagan's elbow didn't move until Cav was already on the way down. Further, i believe Cav's left hood is what forced Sagan's elbow outward.

I despise that governing bodies feel the need to appease the masses instantly. Take a little time, look at everything in depth, talk to BOTH riders separately and together, THEN make a decision.

I haven't got a dog in the fight, but it's bullshit decision in my opinion.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

So, the TDF is essentially over for me, unless the decision to eject Sagan is appealed and reversed. Though i doubt there is a possibly of that. UCI would have to agree that they made a snap judgement and were wrong for that to happen. Not because Sagan is gone, but i just can't get behind the decision.

It's my opinion, after watching several angles frame by frame, that Sagan's elbow didn't move until Cav was already on the way down. Further, i believe Cav's left hood is what forced Sagan's elbow outward.

I despise that governing bodies feel the need to appease the masses instantly. Take a little time, look at everything in depth, talk to BOTH riders separately and together, THEN make a decision.

I haven't got a dog in the fight, but it's bullshit decision in my opinion.

Ohhhh...C'mon my friend ! That's BS !
This is not rugby my friend , this is a sprint in + 60 km/u...
Sagan pushed first with his elbow and and a fraction of a sec.later he pushed even with his shoulder to get more force out his arm !
He actually made *2 movements* with his arm , and he went off his line !

From today on...For me personal Sagan is a Slovakian gangster on a bike !

You know I rode in the Belgian competition , and I rode countless sprints . In a sprint you can hear and feel who is behind you and who is next to you ..
Sagan knew Cavendish came along and his elbow and shoulder were intentional !
Talk to both riders ? Where ? In the hospital ?
Cavs season is over and out...

I *HAD* respect for Sagan . But now , from what I saw today ? Not anymore !

[ciaranob]

Did some racing too from late teens to early 20's in Ireland and UK and can relate to your comments and of course the experts on the box. You can see Cav actually lean in first fairly lightly just before the trees cover the video temporarily but in all fairness he simply had to send a warning nudge to Sagan that he was being pushed into the guard (which of course Sagan could see clearly). Sagan's response if measured, without elbows and if he kept straight would have been OK but the elbow and how he used it was simply unacceptable and a huge let down for his fans as someone who has otherwise been a class act up 'til this.

A moment of frustration/adrenaline fueled craziness perhaps and largely out of character but that will be hard to come back from - very curious to see what penalties he will get as surely they will need to do something. Real shame - not cool!

EDIT - Ah just noticed your vid says he has been disqualified - had not actually played the embedded link!

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Ohhhh...C'mon my friend ! That's BS !
This is not rugby my friend , this is a sprint in + 60 km/u...
Sagan pushed first with his elbow and and a fraction of a sec.later he pushed even with his shoulder to get more force out his arm !
He actually made *2 movements* with his arm , and he went off his line !

From today on...For me personal Sagan is a Slovakian gangster on a bike !

You know I rode in the Belgian competition , and I rode countless sprints . In a sprint you can hear and feel who is behind you and who is next to you ..
Sagan knew Cavendish came along and his elbow and shoulder were intentional !
Talk to both riders ? Where ? In the hospital ?
Cavs season is over and out...

I *HAD* respect for Sagan . But now , from what I saw today ? Not anymore !

[wdb]

I've seen Sagan play hard in the bunch sprint before but I never saw him throw an elbow. He did today. I don't think it's his nature to hook a guy that way so I can't explain it. I haven't lost respect for him yet; I'll wait to see his reaction.

I don't know if DQ is too strong a penalty but it is not a precedent; Renshaw went out in 2010 for a head butt and there wasn't even a crash that time. Perhaps if the result hadn't been so catastrophic they would have stuck with their earlier penalty, relegation and -80 sprint points. But he put a guy out of the Tour and possibly ended his season.

He and the rest of the peloton are lucky they had an earlier crash, otherwise there would have been many many more bodies 'on the floor'.

[ciaranob]

Yep all-round bummer - was really looking forward to seeing Sagan going after a 6-peat in the Green but not this tour.

Originally Posted by wdb

I've seen Sagan play hard in the bunch sprint before but I never saw him throw an elbow. He did today. I don't think it's his nature to hook a guy that way so I can't explain it. I haven't lost respect for him yet; I'll wait to see his reaction.

I don't know if DQ is too strong a penalty but it is not a precedent; Renshaw went out in 2010 for a head butt and there wasn't even a crash that time. Perhaps if the result hadn't been so catastrophic they would have stuck with their earlier penalty, relegation and -80 sprint points. But he put a guy out of the Tour and possibly ended his season.

He and the rest of the peloton are lucky they had an earlier crash, otherwise there would have been many many more bodies 'on the floor'.