[FilipMPower]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Disagree all you wish, but the sales numbers tell the story. BMW is building the right cars in order to secure a healthy place in the market. They are matching or beating their competitors in luxury vehicle sales which is an impressive feat considering the overall size of companies like VAG, Toyota, Mercedes Benz.

Do you expect the sales to drop with this ever-ballooning line up? Cars like the 2 AT show that BMW is ready to sacrifice their trademarks for an increase in sales. If you ask me, the sales could have been increased by making cars which are vastly superior to the competition in most ways, as was during the last two generations of E-chassis cars. Back then, if you bought a C or E class instead of a 3 or 5 series, that was a stupid decision. Now, a C class is even more comfortable and basically as dynamic as a 3 series. Not good, as now all 3 main car manufacturers from Germany build cars on a same level, which wasnt the case not too long ago.

[FilipMPower]

Originally Posted by PodDoc

I get what your saying and dont think there should be an M7 but you realize the only models that dont have a true M version besides the 7 is the 1 series, X1 and X3/4? And there was an 1M, now replaced by the M2. So that is pretty much just like AMG. MB also doesnt make an AMG version of the GLK which competes with the X3.

Yes, but the difference is that the AMG models are all also basically the same. The CLS, E, GLE, G, GL, SL and S class AMG all share the exact engine and most chassis tech (exception in the G class). Same with A, CLA, GLA. And yes, a lot of M cars use the S63, but they are all at least technically different. What Im saying is, everytime an M is realeased, it feels special, when an AMG is released, it feels just ordinary and normal. Besides, BMW only builds M cars in the 2-6 league, not in the lower class, especially not when they are all FWD, and they dont build M cars in the upper league (7 series). So, BMW doesnt make M 1, 7, X1, X3/4, Z4. This is almost half of the whole line up, while MB only doesnt give the GLC AMG treatment, but im sure thats coming too.

[hoyasaxa]

Does this mean that M2s entering production in 2017, as MY2018, will be LCI cars? And, when do we expect that production to start?

I ask because I am planning a 2017 ED trip and it would really suck to pick up one of the last MY2017s only to have LCI a month or two later.

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

1/18/15
I have determined that I've been too optimistic in my ability to distinguish LCI in the constant stream of model updates. As a result, 2016 is no longer suggested to be the year when we will see LCI for F22, F32, F33, and F36. It is possible that this will be the timeframe for engine updates, with proper LCI happening later.

F22 SOP 07/16, EOP 10/20 (this may or may not be the LCI):
- 230i B46B20O0 replaces 228i
- M240i B58B30M0 replaces M235i

...

M140i / M240i (MY2017) will add ~15hp compared to the B58 output in non-M-performance cars, similar to what M135i offered above regular x35i models.

Apple CarPlay is definitely coming in 2016-2017.

OLED will find its way to production models, will be called "BMW Organic Light".

So, to clarify:

2016 M2 - not LCI
2017 230i and M240i - not LCI, just new engines, plus whatever parts BMW adds across the board for the new model year (in this case wifi hotspot)
2018 230i and M240i - LCI with engines introduced a year earlier.
2018 M2 will get new LCI design features in the places that it shares with regular 2er cars. Whether it will also be called LCI, is unknown - BMW is very inconsistent in that regard when it comes to M cars.
[*]M2 will have LCI alongside F22/F23 in 2017 (pretty much same deal as happened with F80).[/list]

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

I ask because I am planning a 2017 ED trip and it would really suck to pick up one of the last MY2017s only to have LCI a month or two later.

If I were you, I'd be planning that trip for August or later.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

Yes, but the difference is that the AMG models are all also basically the same. The CLS, E, GLE, G, GL, SL and S class AMG all share the exact engine and most chassis tech (exception in the G class). Same with A, CLA, GLA. And yes, a lot of M cars use the S63, but they are all at least technically different. What Im saying is, everytime an M is realeased, it feels special, when an AMG is released, it feels just ordinary and normal. Besides, BMW only builds M cars in the 2-6 league, not in the lower class, especially not when they are all FWD, and they dont build M cars in the upper league (7 series). So, BMW doesnt make M 1, 7, X1, X3/4, Z4. This is almost half of the whole line up, while MB only doesnt give the GLC AMG treatment, but im sure thats coming too.

The same chassis and engine sharing happens with BMWs, if not more so. In the US, BMW only uses three distinct gasoline engine configurations for all their models. As for the chassis, all 1- and 2-series share a chassis; all 3- and 4- do as well; as do the 5- and 6-.

And BMW has made no secret of wanting to increase this sharing with the introduction of the next G-generation, which will share only two chassis across almost the entire model lineup of the company.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Just like E90 M3 and E92 M3 were.

It's a result of the offset production start dates of the F30 and F32, which is 1.5+ yrs. This same trend has existed since the E36.

What they really ought to do is allow the M3 to go to market before the M4, just as the M5 does the M6. I think that now that the model name changes have settled and the products can achieve separation we may see this happen in future generations. But maybe not yet with next generation.

I'd expect that they either stagger the SOP of the M3 and M4 to coincide with their 18-24 month EOP difference, or sync their EOP to match their respective SOP dates. Doesn't make sense to cut the M3 sales early.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

Do you expect the sales to drop with this ever-ballooning line up?

Imagine that - a corporate entity expanding their product portfolio to keep pace with the competition. It's almost as if they are trying to remain an industry leader or something.

Cars like the 2 AT show that BMW is ready to sacrifice their trademarks for an increase in sales.

That was conceived as an answer to the Mercedes B Class. What it shows is that BMW can't afford to let Mercedes completely control a given segment while trying to compete with them on lower economies of scale.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Imagine that - a corporate entity expanding their product portfolio to keep pace with the competition. It's almost as if they are trying to remain an industry leader or something.

That was conceived as an answer to the Mercedes B Class. What it shows is that BMW can't afford to let Mercedes completely control a given segment while trying to compete with them on lower economies of scale.

Finally someone with sense haha.

[FilipMPower]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Imagine that - a corporate entity expanding their product portfolio to keep pace with the competition. It's almost as if they are trying to remain an industry leader or something.



That was conceived as an answer to the Mercedes B Class. What it shows is that BMW can't afford to let Mercedes completely control a given segment while trying to compete with them on lower economies of scale.

I guess you are right, Im just frustrated with the lack of driver satisfaction I get in most BMWs (with the exception of M cars, the M235i and the 7 series). Maybe my memory fools me and I can just remember the good ol' things and ignore the drawbacks of the older cars.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

[*]530e will have more power than 330e, by 30hp or so. It'll be a late intro model, you shouldn't expect it before 2017 calendar year. There'll be both RWD and xDrive versions.

DAMMIT! I was contemplating going for this for my next car but then I need to have it delivered by mid 2017 which won't happen with a late model intro since the standard model will intro late 2016/early 2017.

[Diver]

Autospies just picked up this info today. Get it first here.

[raysspl]

Thanks again for the updates

[TitanNut88]

Thank you for the updates ynguldyn, What will the 2 series (including M2) get in the facelift apart from LED tail and headlights?

[mkoesel]

ynguldyn,

With the F22/F23/F87 LCI now a lock for MY2018 in 2017 (albeit with exact dates not yet known), we can safely say the same for F32/F33/F82/F83, no? Given their SOP dates, this should definitely be the case.

Speaking of all that, anymore news about a green light for an F88 M2 convertible?

Other things I'm waiting in anticipation for any information on:

- High output B48 (or similar engine code) at or near ~300hp for UKL vehicles

- Above engine takes over the 35i designation, soon to be completely vacated due to the B58 moving all six cylinder gasoline models up to 40i across the board (I think this makes sense and is a good bet)?

- Future of the BMW V8 and V12. Ride the current 98mm bore-center architecture into the sunset, or replace with a B*-family-compatible 91mm bore-center designs (would necessitate displacement reduction to 4.0L and 6.0L respectively)?

- Sub 3-Series RWD model prospects after the current F2x 1 Series and 2 Series go out of production. Yes or no? If yes, CLAR-based, UKL-based (somehow, some way, from some crazy reason), or something else (help from Toyota, future FT86 platform)?

[as7920]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

August 2015 Update:

M140i / M240i (MY2017) will add ~15hp compared to the B58 output in non-M-performance cars, similar to what M135i offered above regular x35i models.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...tem=node__8259

Hi,

Just had Spring 2016 updates released and there is no update to M135i to M140i, do you have any information on this?

Thanks

[mkoesel]

The notes you quoted from the OP are for MY2017. Presumably there will be another press release for Summer which is when MY2017 starts in the US. Expect the M140i changes to be announced then.

Originally Posted by as7920

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...tem=node__8259

Hi,

Just had Spring 2016 updates released and there is no update to M135i to M140i, do you have any information on this?

Thanks

[as7920]

True that. Thanks!

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

ynguldyn,

With the F22/F23/F87 LCI now a lock for MY2018 in 2017 (albeit with exact dates not yet known), we can safely say the same for F32/F33/F82/F83, no? Given their SOP dates, this should definitely be the case.

I would expect that to be the case, but I don't have access to the exact dates anymore (that's something I only had for a short time and lost about a year ago).

Speaking of all that, anymore news about a green light for an F88 M2 convertible?

At this time I only know that it's a thing.

Other things I'm waiting in anticipation for any information on:

- High output B48 (or similar engine code) at or near ~300hp for UKL vehicles

- Above engine takes over the 35i designation, soon to be completely vacated due to the B58 moving all six cylinder gasoline models up to 40i across the board (I think this makes sense and is a good bet)?

Possible (probable?), but no hard info on this yet.

- Future of the BMW V8 and V12. Ride the current 98mm bore-center architecture into the sunset, or replace with a B*-family-compatible 91mm bore-center designs (would necessitate displacement reduction to 4.0L and 6.0L respectively)?

Nothing on this. Not a peep. I'm willing to make a small bet that the the next solution after N63TU2 and such will be a deep B58-based hybrid.

- Sub 3-Series RWD model prospects after the current F2x 1 Series and 2 Series go out of production. Yes or no? If yes, CLAR-based, UKL-based (somehow, some way, from some crazy reason), or something else (help from Toyota, future FT86 platform)?

Ask me in two years. (Scott's probably your man for this - he releases info of this type earlier than it comes to me through my sources.)

[mkoesel]

Thanks for humoring me and answering my questions. Always appreciated.

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Nothing on this. Not a peep. I'm willing to make a small bet that the the next solution after N63TU2 and such will be a deep B58-based hybrid.

I agree this seems more and more likely. Power eDrive coupled with the B58 will begin to factor in starting next decade. It would make sense to move in this direction with the 550i, 650i, 750i, and X5/X6 50i (switching from "i" to "e", perhaps). I think we might possibly even see this happen at LCI time for the Gxx generation of some of these vehicles. But if not then, then certainly the following (H?) generation.

For the M5/M6 and X5/X6 M, it is a trickier question. Even though Power eDrive should eventually scale to ~750hp or more with an I6, I get the feeling that both Mercedes and Audi will keep their 4.0L V8s around for the long term in some sort of hybrid-ized form as well, for use in their AMG and Quattro RS models. Not to mention Cadillac has a new turbocharged V8 coming, Jaguar will probably keep theirs (possibly downsizing back to 4.0L), Lexus still has their V8 (though, in desperate need of turbocharging), and even Genesis will probably turbocharge their V8 starting soon. So, in the high performance flagship sedans (not to mention SUVs) small displacement V8s may be with us another fifteen years or perhaps even more. The big question is: even if they can match those competitors in performance using fewer cylinders and less displacement, will BMW be able to compete with an I6 against a V8 in terms of customer appeal?

As for the V12, I think we can agree will definitely stick around in some form for a while due to Rolls Royce, though I would expect hybrid assist to be added there as well.

[TitanNut88]

Originally Posted by Robopilingui

Thank you for the updates ynguldyn, What will the 2 series (including M2) get in the facelift apart from LED tail and headlights?

Any info on that? New iDrive, tacho, etc.

Thanks!

[maragulon]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Europe? Yes to both. Currently, the range starts at 730i and 725d.

@ynguldyn Do you know when that range model will start selling?

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

As for the V12, I think we can agree will definitely stick around in some form

And it does

This thread came up at 7post and boy it is exciting news indeed

http://www.7post.com/forums/showthre...6#post19374006

http://www.bangkokpost.com/auto/news...drive-revealed