[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I've heard that Porsche will be cancelling European Deliveries by the end of the year. Have a friend of a friend who did a GT4 ED last month so they could catch one of the last ones.

They got in because Europe was opened to Canada. It's been recently closed due to uptick in cases.

Looks like Porsche is getting smart.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Looks like Porsche is getting smart.

How is that smart?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

How is that smart?

The writing has been on the wall for Porsche since last year. COVID only made things worse. They've been canceling ED's all year. All of these manufacturers have to be smarter with their money and ED take rates are such a low percentage. As cool as the ED offerings are, it just doesn't make financial sense in these times.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The writing has been on the wall for Porsche since last year. COVID only made things worse. They've been canceling ED's all year. All of these manufacturers have to be smarter with their money and ED take rates are such a low percentage. As cool as the ED offerings are, it just doesn't make financial sense in these times.

I would argue it's more then dollars and cents. Brand loyalty is a very real thing and ED creates that loyalty. Shit canning it might seem like a "smart" move at the moment but Covid isn't going to last forever.

I'm about to dump everything BMW over the next year or 2 for obvious reasons. Killing ED was the nail in the coffin. I'm sure I'm the minority buts it's still a dumb move. ED doesn't cost these manufactures that much cash. How much did BMW spend on these lame ass G8x "///M" commercials? A hell of a lot less then their ED program costs them every year.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I would argue it's more then dollars and cents. Brand loyalty is a very real thing and ED creates that loyalty. Shit canning it might seem like a "smart" move at the moment but Covid isn't going to last forever.

I'm about to dump everything BMW over the next year or 2 for obvious reasons. Killing ED was the nail in the coffin. I'm sure I'm the minority buts it's still a dumb move. ED doesn't cost these manufactures that much cash. How much did BMW spend on these lame ass G8x "///M" commercials? A hell of a lot less then their ED program costs them every year.

ED doesn't play a significant role in brand loyalty overall. It is of utmost importance to you and your experience, which I completely understand, but statistically.....monetarily.....it doesn't really matter much.

As for your ED vs. commercial question, I would argue there's a significant logistical difference between the two. ED surely costs more in the long run than a commercial spot.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

ED doesn't play a significant role in brand loyalty overall. It is of utmost importance to you and your experience, which I completely understand, but statistically.....monetarily.....it doesn't really matter much.

As for your ED vs. commercial question, I would argue there's a significant logistical difference between the two. ED surely costs more in the long run than a commercial spot.

Ok. What creates brand loyalty then? 6MT?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Ok. What creates brand loyalty then? 6MT?

It's a mixed bag. People are loyal to different things for different reasons. ED and 6MT are low percentage factors and/or considerations. The take rate is too low for it to make any appreciable difference. I would wager most people become loyal based on their sales experience(s), the quality of the vehicle, minimal maintenance issues, relative ease of purchase, etc. We, as enthusiasts, are the fringe; we are the peripheral. We, as a community, whine about stupid shit like floating calipers or the same steering wheel being used in multiple models. That is crap that the large majority of buyers do not care about or even notice. I look at enthusiasts as more opportunistic than loyal. Many enthusiasts stick around because there's no disputing that in most cases you get more car for the money when you purchase a BMW.

[EvoFire]

ED, probably was a "since they have it across town, we need to offer it too" deal for MB and Volvo. Being competitors, it's hard for marketing to be left out. BMW was probably the pioneer of it because it absolutely did bring in business and brand loyalty. There are stories here of people doing it at least back in the 90's already.

I have friends who would only borderline be called car enthusiasts and were considering a BMW because I did ED and they enjoyed traveling and life. ED would be a life experience for them.

However it's true that consumer tastes have changed since when ED was popular and did drive brand loyalty. BMW's target audience has also changed significantly from the 90-00's compared to now. They did lose brand loyalty from cancelling ED, 100%, but the numbers would be significantly smaller now compared to even a decade ago.


The hope is Porsche cancelled ED due to covid, as scheduling and planning for delivery to have everything canned near the date due to circumstances out of both their, and the buyers control is shitty. Here's hope they bring it back. They did just open the Leipzig delivery center last year.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

ED, probably was a "since they have it across town, we need to offer it too" deal for MB and Volvo. Being competitors, it's hard for marketing to be left out. BMW was probably the pioneer of it because it absolutely did bring in business and brand loyalty. There are stories here of people doing it at least back in the 90's already.

I have friends who would only borderline be called car enthusiasts and were considering a BMW because I did ED and they enjoyed traveling and life. ED would be a life experience for them.

However it's true that consumer tastes have changed since when ED was popular and did drive brand loyalty. BMW's target audience has also changed significantly from the 90-00's compared to now. They did lose brand loyalty from cancelling ED, 100%, but the numbers would be significantly smaller now compared to even a decade ago.


The hope is Porsche cancelled ED due to covid, as scheduling and planning for delivery to have everything canned near the date due to circumstances out of both their, and the buyers control is shitty. Here's hope they bring it back. They did just open the Leipzig delivery center last year.

I wish there was a metric for engaging and polling buyer's [not from the forum] who have participated in ED during past purchases and who would not buy another BMW based solely on ED being canceled. I would bet there aren't many out there who would write off an entire brand over something like that........especially when the next best car likely doesn't have an ED program either. Is it worth buying the lesser car because of a trivial matter? Maybe. Maybe not.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It's a mixed bag. People are loyal to different things for different reasons. ED and 6MT are low percentage factors and/or considerations. The take rate is too low for it to make any appreciable difference. I would wager most people become loyal based on their sales experience(s), the quality of the vehicle, minimal maintenance issues, relative ease of purchase, etc. We, as enthusiasts, are the fringe; we are the peripheral. We, as a community, whine about stupid shit like floating calipers or the same steering wheel being used in multiple models. That is crap that the large majority of buyers do not care about or even notice. I look at enthusiasts as more opportunistic than loyal. Many enthusiasts stick around because there's no disputing that in most cases you get more car for the money when you purchase a BMW.

I don't think your describing Brand Loyalty more ease of ownership/purchasing(leasing). There is nothing that sets BMW apart any longer sadly except for 2 models with 6MT (USA). The customers you described will just move on to another brand in 3 years.

Brand Loyalty is created by standing apart and offering things others don't (ED, Superior Drivers Cars, Tech cough cough Tesla). BMW currently has nothing to set them apart. Loyalty will continue to be in the shitter for them.

You'll disagree but the G8x mess isn't helping.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I don't think your describing Brand Loyalty more ease of ownership/purchasing(leasing). There is nothing that sets BMW apart any longer sadly except for 2 models with 6MT (USA). The customers you described will just move on to another brand in 3 years.

Brand Loyalty is created by standing apart and offering things others don't (ED, Superior Drivers Cars, Tech cough cough Tesla). BMW currently has nothing to set them apart. Loyalty will continue to be in the shitter for them.

You'll disagree but the G8x mess isn't helping.

Ownership experience and sales experience most definitely adds to the loyalty aspect of any purchase. When you are satisfied with a product, you generally continue to buy that product. ED matters to you because it's offering that you appreciated. It's not an offering that is responsible for BMW's overall success. It is a fringe benefit.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I wish there was a metric for engaging and polling buyer's [not from the forum] who have participated in ED during past purchases and who would not buy another BMW based solely on ED being canceled. I would bet there aren't many out there who would write off an entire brand over something like that........especially when the next best car likely doesn't have an ED program either. Is it worth buying the lesser car because of a trivial matter? Maybe. Maybe not.

Probably impossible to obtain that metric. Even if you can it would be skewed. There are no lesser cars in the marketplace, all the tiers are fairly competitive with each other, and even if they do lose it would be on the thinnest of margins, or there was a specific need or requirement that one fulfilled that another did not.

I likely won't be buying another M car because of a few factors. The options mix of the G80 does not make sense to me, the design of the G80 does not make sense to me, BMW Canada has made leasing and insuring a leased vehicle an infuriating experience, nevermind the fact that the company they've partnered with is wholly incompetent and unable to maintain even a semblance of data privacy. ED is a factor but it's icing on the cake, it is what drove me to buy a new M car vs used. The BMW individual program provides a similar type of incentive because I want a F80 in LSB, therefore I ordered new. I am more likely to go for a new P car because they are doing ED, otherwise I would buy used.

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I don't think your describing Brand Loyalty more ease of ownership/purchasing(leasing). There is nothing that sets BMW apart any longer sadly except for 2 models with 6MT (USA). The customers you described will just move on to another brand in 3 years.

Brand Loyalty is created by standing apart and offering things others don't (ED, Superior Drivers Cars, Tech cough cough Tesla). BMW currently has nothing to set them apart. Loyalty will continue to be in the shitter for them.

You'll disagree but the G8x mess isn't helping.

This is partly the truth, and even at 2 models with 6MT BMW is distinguished in the pack and fosters brand loyalty because the values align with a certain group of people. That is until the same people choose to go with a P car instead.

But I disagree with with tech being a driver of brand loyalty, because it isn't. Tech would be the driving force to whichever brand puts out what is generally accepted as "high tech" for the time.

Brand loyalty is fostered in many ways, it is when the company goes above and beyond what's expected. It is the personal experience with sales and service. It is the product resonating at a personal/emotional level with the customer, and of course willingness to serve a specific subset of wants despite everything pointing at otherwise. 6MT falls in the latter camp of things, BMW does nothing to distinguish themselves in the first two because MB/Audi/Lexus all do the same thing, and they've absolutely dropped the ball in the personal and emotional connection(Yes I'm talking about the G8x debacle, and to an extent the 8 series as well).