[ORIGIN M.]

That and once the battery costs are low enough it will cost more to make an ICE car compared to a BEV.

Originally Posted by Hoiser

Once there is a shift to designing for electric the increased sales will drive out the necessity to offer petrol versions. Designing for two platforms will become unnecessary and redundant. Such a bummer, I like the hum of an engine.

[Lister]

It does have strengths as an approach but the biggest weakness is that you are building to the lowest common denominator across the multiple power train types. Cars that are truly 'born electric' will not be held back by vestigial design endpoints from combustion power trained vehicles.

As electric car design starts veering away from combustion heritage, pure electric designs from the likes of Tesla will venture places that multi-modal compliant designs like BMW won't be able to follow.

[classyfast]

BMW hasn't figured out how to get the grease smudges off the windows of my last 3 335's and my e92M, not sure they have the ability to solve this conundrum either.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by torzeck

If we all accepted the science most of the scientists in world accept, we would high tail it to a future of electric cars. There'd be no hedging or guessing. We'd all be funneled to electric cars.

I wholeheartedly resist being "funneled" and will vote and vigorously protest against efforts to do so. The United States of America is about liberty and the freedom to pursue happiness. This core principle is lost on way too many people.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

The Tesla fanboys are passionate, I'll give them that. One mistake I see them make is they think EVs can ramp up market penetration like the iPhone. They seem to miss that the iPhone didn't have all the relative shortcomings compared other phones at the time. You could use an iPhone just as long as other phones, and charge them the in the same manner. EVs can't run for as long of a sustained period, or refuel as quickly, or in as many places as conventional vehicles. Also- everyone *could* use an iPhone, but a vast number (the majority?) of people can't charge an EV at home even if they do want to own one.

[FogCityM3]

BMW's purported "strategy" should be renamed the "throw spaghetti on the wall" strategy.

Talk about rudderless!

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Also- everyone *could* use an iPhone, but a vast number (the majority?) of people can't charge an EV at home even if they do want to own one.

I assumed (maybe wrongly) that you could charge them from a normal household wall socket!

If you can't then I'm out!!

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by nozydog

I assumed (maybe wrongly) that you could charge them from a normal household wall socket!

If you can't then I'm out!!

Tens of millions of people that live in condos or apartments (like myself for example), or just use on-street parking don't have an ability to park their car anyplace near an outlet. This completely rules out EVs for these people. Not sure what the plan is supposed to be for these car owners if they are to be forced away from owning a vehicle using internal combustion.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by nozydog

Are you serious???

No driving enthusiast wants to drive a car with no dials behind the steering wheel but instead just a huge iPad centre stage!!! Tesla are no doubt great cars and have their place, but they'll NEVER be the driving enthusiasts choice (only the tech enthusiasts choice)

You honestly believe that a solar panel company who made their first car less than 10 years ago will overtake one of the worlds leading automakers who started up 100 years ago?? BMW are more than capable of making electric cars and as this article outlines, not enough people are buying pure EVs yet, so it makes sense to offer a choice to customers! Something Tesla cannot do!!

Spoken like someone who has never driven a Tesla.

Come push the pedal down and hang on! (Feel free to holler "vroom, vroom" at the top of your lungs if it makes you feel better!)

Ever been to a Formula-E race?

[JorgenM]

LOL @ glennQNYC, do you currently have your own gas station at home then

[mkoesel]

Absolutely. Consider also that once dual motor (both front and rear) becomes the normal way to implement all wheel drive, there is no such thing as a FWD or RWD platform or vehicle matrix anymore. Instead you have one architecture that can do everything. This naturally leads to significant savings in design and manufacturing. Furthermore, there is no need for a driveshaft and also no transmission. That not only simplifies the unibody design but reduces mechanical complexity greatly. Plenty of other optimizations exist as well and I'm sure you had some in mind when you made your post.

That being said, I think that planning a cost effective route to electrify vehicles on existing platforms makes sense in the near term. They still have the i brand to focus on ground up EV (though no current i vehicle architectures are ICE-free - yet).

Originally Posted by cbenedic

It does have strengths as an approach but the biggest weakness is that you are building to the lowest common denominator across the multiple power train types. Cars that are truly 'born electric' will not be held back by vestigial design endpoints from combustion power trained vehicles.

As electric car design starts veering away from combustion heritage, pure electric designs from the likes of Tesla will venture places that multi-modal compliant designs like BMW won't be able to follow.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

BS the BMW M4 stock cannot touch a 10sec 1320 time.

Tesla P85DL can.

lol was talking about the track where tesla's standstill acceleration is largely meaningless. I would certainly hope the P85D's 760+ bhp could beat 425 in a straight line.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by Agni

This is just further proof that BMW and other car companies are run by MBAs and their spreadsheets with product/market fit charts. There is little room for innovation. All the "innovation" is done by 3rd parties like Mobile eye and their tech is sold to BMW's competitors too.

Where as, Tesla is run by software engineers and technologists. Sorry BMW but you have no chance. Model 3 is the iPhone of cars and BMW is starting to look like Nokia and blackberry. Tesla hires some of the best engineers, including, recently the GOD of artificial intelligence: https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/te...opilot-vision/

yeah remember blackberry hedging that business people would never give up their keyboard.

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Tens of millions of people that live in condos or apartments (like myself for example), or just use on-street parking don't have an ability to park their car anyplace near an outlet. This completely rules out EVs for these people. Not sure what the plan is supposed to be for these car owners if they are to be forced away from owning a vehicle using internal combustion.

Of course, strange I never thought of that. Until two years ago I'd lived in apartments for 14 years where charging a car at home would have been impossible! I guess then that every street will have charging points every 5 metres or so in the future.... like that's gonna happen!!!

And this is why 'electric only' motoring is a mighty long way off yet. I'd say we'll see ICE cars on the roads up until 2050 at least!!

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

LOL @ glennQNYC, do you currently have your own gas station at home then

Takes a minute to refuel your car! Hours to recharge your electric car

[JorgenM]

Hours at home yes. 20-30 mins at a fast charger. Just enough time to finish a coffee.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

Hours at home yes. 20-30 mins at a fast charger. Just enough time to finish a coffee.

I drink coffee in 5 min

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

Hours at home yes. 20-30 mins at a fast charger. Just enough time to finish a coffee.

I've heard people recommend that people seeking a sex change live life as their new self for a year before the operation. Maybe EV shoppers should do the same and waste 30 min every time they refuel their ICE?

Unless we're talking about a secondary or tertiary vehicle, the entire allure of an EV is lost on me. Having to refuel every single day... Having to build in a charger at home... Having to plan long routes around charging... Decreased range (battery life) over the years of ownership... No manual transmission option... No track days... Higher purchase cost... What if I want to visit a friend for a few days? I have to coordinate some way of charging at their place? etc.. I really don't get why I'd ever want to put up with all this crap.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I've heard people recommend that people seeking a sex change live life as their new self for a year before the operation. Maybe EV shoppers should do the same and waste 30 min every time they refuel their ICE?

Unless we're talking about a secondary or tertiary vehicle, the entire allure of an EV is lost on me. Having to refuel every single day... Having to build in a charger at home... Having to plan long routes around charging... Decreased battery life over the years of ownership... No manual transmission option... No track days... Higher purchase cost... What if I want to visit a friend for a few days? I have to coordinate charging? etc.. I really don't get why I'd ever want to put up with all this crap.

It's a tree hugger thing. You (and me) wouldn't get it

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I've heard people recommend that people seeking a sex change live life as their new self for a year before the operation. Maybe EV shoppers should do the same and waste 30 min every time they refuel their ICE?

Unless we're talking about a secondary or tertiary vehicle, the entire allure of an EV is lost on me. Having to refuel every single day... Having to build in a charger at home... Having to plan long routes around charging... Decreased range (battery life) over the years of ownership... No manual transmission option... No track days... Higher purchase cost... What if I want to visit a friend for a few days? I have to coordinate some way of charging at their place? etc.. I really don't get why I'd ever want to put up with all this crap.

+1

And that's why motoring won't be fully electric for many decades in my opinion. Until a full charge takes ten minutes or less and then gives us a minimum range of 300-400 miles! The way I'm guessing it will happen is when the powers that be make laws forcing us to drive EVs. Our Government has already stated that the sale of new fuel powered cars will become illegal in the UK from 2040. So once all those cars still on the road at that point in time have gone to the scrap yard, maybe by 2060 then I guess that will be that... but I'll be 95 or dead by then!

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by nozydog

+1

And that's why motoring won't be fully electric for many decades in my opinion. Until a full charge takes ten minutes or less and then gives us a minimum range of 300-400 miles! The way I'm guessing it will happen is when the powers that be make laws forcing us to drive EVs. Our Government has already stated that the sale of new fuel powered cars will become illegal in the UK from 2040. So once all those cars still on the road at that point in time have gone to the scrap yard, maybe by 2060 then I guess that will be that... but I'll be 95 or dead by then!

if anyone commutes more than 310 miles in a day then you are a commercial driver or you need to find a closer job.

if you have a garage/house then current electric cars fit in with 99.9% of daily commutes and charges overnight while you sleep. Even if you drive 200 miles per day the electric car will cost much less to fill up.

[Laki021]

I think this strategy makes perfect sense. It's a win win, no matter what happens in the future.
Customers will also benefit by getting EVs that are identical to the current ICE vehicles, no strange design, no crappy Tesla interior and terrible built quality with tons of features missing. It will be a properly built BMW with the recognizable shape, a truly high quality product (not a beta phase product like some other EVs).

BMW also has the power to quickly solve a problem of chargers. It is enough to make a request to all their dealers to install few quick chargers at their locations and they can cover huge areas in a matter of months.

Tesla poked the bear, now they will feel the wrath of the serious car manufacturers who were ignoring them till now.