2015 M3 or 2015 GTR

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by The Nash

If that were true we'd all be driving a Prius

I wouldn't. I live in the country and get made fun of for my M3 because it isn't a truck. No one knows or cares what it is. I drive it because I like it but I can't speak for why other people buy cars.

[Mthrice]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Is a gtr even fun as a daily? The interior is nissan and besides as a daily would you be able to even attempt to put the power down?

If youre in Mexico i guess.

GT-R is the stoplight king! You cant have any fun with an M3 until you hit 6500 rpms, which makes it pretty boring in the city IMO. They don't hook for S@#T, especially manual.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Petros

What's wrong with the interior? Seems to me just as good as an M3 interior. And as far as power is concerned, none of these cars can be fully utilized on the streets anyway, so that point is moot.

The interior looks like a bunch of random pods and parts just glued together without any thought to proper aesthetics.

The issue of power is about how the car feels while being driven at even moderately fast speeds. The GTR does not impart you with any major sensations until you are into triple digit speeds. This can only be really enjoyed at the track or dragstrip. The acceleration is brutal, but is over almost too quickly for the street. Poof!! The sensation is gone as fast as it came on. A certain amount of absolute speed capability is obviously a big part of driving enjoyment, but any car that can get to 60 mph in under 5 seconds will give you that IMO.

I personally think that a 0-60 of about 4 seconds is perfect. This fast enough to impart a real sensation of acceleration, but not so fast so that it is over before your brain can really process the enjoyment of the sensation. Again, different story if you are at an airstrip and can just keep going.

But, as I said, if I was in a race for money, the GTR would be my car of choice (super exotics, notwithstanding)

[Petros]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

The interior looks like a bunch of random pods and parts just glued together without any thought to proper aesthetics.

The GTR interior layout is far better than the M3. You want terrible ergonomics? Look at an m3 interior. The GTR has a large tachometer right were you want it, just in front of the driver. And the gear position indicator is right next to it. The speedometer is small and offset to the left. And you get proper shift lights. And off center to your peripheral vision, you get that awesome display that tells you all you need to know about g forces, car and engine telemetry, etc. On the M3, the only thing right in front of you is the digital display that doesn't actually have any information important enough to be shoved in your face. The tach is much smaller and offset to the right, making it difficult to use on the track, and you don't even get shift lights. Good luck trying to hit that perfect upshift on the track. Oh and you want to know the condition of the car? Good luck with that too. All you get is a useless oil level gauge that can't even stay consistent day to day, and an oil temp gauge that doesn't even tell you the actual oil temp. Great job BMW

The issue of power is about how the car feels while being driven at even moderately fast speeds. The GTR does not impart you with any major sensations until you are into triple digit speeds.

Same with the M3. The S65's anaemic torque output means that you really gotta rev it over 5000 or even 6000 rpm to feel any acceleration. And by then you've already hit the speed limit.

This can only be really enjoyed at the track or dragstrip.

I personally have no idea why you would even want either a GTR or M3 if you never go to the track. Both of these cars are serious overkill for street driving. For that just get an FRS and be happy.

[Mthrice]

Originally Posted by Petros

The GTR interior layout is far better than the M3. You want terrible ergonomics? Look at an m3 interior. The GTR has a large tachometer right were you want it, just in front of the driver. And the gear position indicator is right next to it. The speedometer is small and offset to the left. And you get proper shift lights. And off center to your peripheral vision, you get that awesome display that tells you all you need to know about g forces, car and engine telemetry, etc. On the M3, the only thing right in front of you is the digital display that doesn't actually have any information important enough to be shoved in your face. The tach is much smaller and offset to the right, making it difficult to use on the track, and you don't even get shift lights.

Couldn't agree more! I was constantly peeking under the steering wheel (at 125mph mind you) to see where my rpms were on track. The top of the RPM range was completely obstructed. The first thing I noticed with the GT-R was as you adjust the steering wheel up and down the tach moves with it so you always have a perfect view.

I can appreciate sticking up for the M3 cause you own one, I did it for a long time myself. But calling your S6 (LARTHAL) the sledgehammer, and ragging on the GT-R for being to fast Hilarious!

[unclejesse1]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

The interior looks like a bunch of random pods and parts just glued together without any thought to proper aesthetics.

The issue of power is about how the car feels while being driven at even moderately fast speeds. The GTR does not impart you with any major sensations until you are into triple digit speeds. This can only be really enjoyed at the track or dragstrip. The acceleration is brutal, but is over almost too quickly for the street. Poof!! The sensation is gone as fast as it came on. A certain amount of absolute speed capability is obviously a big part of driving enjoyment, but any car that can get to 60 mph in under 5 seconds will give you that IMO.

I personally think that a 0-60 of about 4 seconds is perfect. This fast enough to impart a real sensation of acceleration, but not so fast so that it is over before your brain can really process the enjoyment of the sensation. Again, different story if you are at an airstrip and can just keep going.

But, as I said, if I was in a race for money, the GTR would be my car of choice (super exotics, notwithstanding)

op go GTR its worth it

[M3_WC]

Get the GTR. I wasn't a believer until I test drove a black edition last year. It was insanely quick, the salesman got in the drivers seat and drove it like Mario Andretti. For the member above who said you can't feel GTR speed on the street, that is utter BS.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Petros

The GTR interior layout is far better than the M3. You want terrible ergonomics? Look at an m3 interior. The GTR has a large tachometer right were you want it, just in front of the driver. And the gear position indicator is right next to it. The speedometer is small and offset to the left. And you get proper shift lights. And off center to your peripheral vision, you get that awesome display that tells you all you need to know about g forces, car and engine telemetry, etc. On the M3, the only thing right in front of you is the digital display that doesn't actually have any information important enough to be shoved in your face. The tach is much smaller and offset to the right, making it difficult to use on the track, and you don't even get shift lights. Good luck trying to hit that perfect upshift on the track. Oh and you want to know the condition of the car? Good luck with that too. All you get is a useless oil level gauge that can't even stay consistent day to day, and an oil temp gauge that doesn't even tell you the actual oil temp. Great job BMW

Same with the M3. The S65's anaemic torque output means that you really gotta rev it over 5000 or even 6000 rpm to feel any acceleration. And by then you've already hit the speed limit. I personally have no idea why you would even want either a GTR or M3 if you never go to the track. Both of these cars are serious overkill for street driving. For that just get an FRS and be happy.

This argument will never be over, nor will once side ever be able to convince the other. The issue here is not which car is the better performer, or which car is functional better with regards to pure performance. In that regard, the GTR wins hands down, and I will be the first to say so. However, I test drove a GTR on 3 separate occasions, once for over 2 hours, before choosing my M3 over it.

I chose the M3 because it was subjectively more appealing and more fun. The feel and sound of the engine were nicer. I like the fact that it had a manual gearbox. The steering felt better. The ride/handling balance was much more geared for road use. The interior design did not look so random, and the grade of materials had a more upscale feel. The exterior design has consistency in its design elements. The GTR is all function, and no form. That's not what I was looking for.
In fact, I used to own a 350Z years ago, and was so looking forward to the debut of the GTR in 2009. I was certain it would be my next car. When it finally materialized, however, I was seriously disappointed. I wish you could take the GTR's mechanicals, put it in a 370Z body, and give it a sporty Infiniti-grade interior. Now that is a car I would take in a heartbeat.

There is a car that combines both the pure performance of the GTR and the subjective design appeal of the M3....a 911 turbo, but you do pay for it.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

This argument will never be over, nor will once side ever be able to convince the other. The issue here is not which car is the better performer, or which car is functional better with regards to pure performance. In that regard, the GTR wins hands down, and I will be the first to say so. However, I test drove a GTR on 3 separate occasions, once for over 2 hours, before choosing my M3 over it.

I chose the M3 because it was subjectively more appealing and more fun. The feel and sound of the engine were nicer. I like the fact that it had a manual gearbox. The steering felt better. The ride/handling balance was much more geared for road use. The interior design did not look so random, and the grade of materials had a more upscale feel. The exterior design has consistency in its design elements. The GTR is all function, and no form. That's not what I was looking for.
In fact, I used to own a 350Z years ago, and was so looking forward to the debut of the GTR in 2009. I was certain it would be my next car. When it finally materialized, however, I was seriously disappointed. I wish you could take the GTR's mechanicals, put it in a 370Z body, and give it a sporty Infiniti-grade interior. Now that is a car I would take in a heartbeat.

There is a car that combines both the pure performance of the GTR and the subjective design appeal of the M3....a 911 turbo, but you do pay for it.

Like you said, design appeal is subjective, and for that reason alone, this argument will never be over.
I drove my friends gtr for 2 hours, not on the track, so i couldnt really push it. It did feel like a very potent performer, but i do agree with most of what you said in this post.
However, i bet, most of us, who got m3 as a second car for pure performance, would go for GTR if they were in the same price range.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Non of both, the 2015 Z06 and that's 4 sure !
The looks,the power,the numbers, best looking car of the last 10 years ,no doubt

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Like you said, design appeal is subjective, and for that reason alone, this argument will never be over.
I drove my friends gtr for 2 hours, not on the track, so i couldnt really push it. It did feel like a very potent performer, but i do agree with most of what you said in this post.
However, i bet, most of us, who got m3 as a second car for pure performance, would go for GTR if they were in the same price range.

shit my M3 is a daily drive. i would be daily driving a GTR if it was the same price.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by Petros

The GTR interior layout is far better than the M3. You want terrible ergonomics? Look at an m3 interior. The GTR has a large tachometer right were you want it, just in front of the driver. And the gear position indicator is right next to it. The speedometer is small and offset to the left. And you get proper shift lights.

The 2015 M3 has an optional HUD with a shift indicator. It’s TBD if it will be as functional as the GTR’s setup on a track. From an aesthetics perspective, I find the 2015 M3 interior far more appealing than the GTR’s. It’s Nomos Glashütte versus Casio calculator watch with a leather band.

Originally Posted by Petros

And off center to your peripheral vision, you get that awesome display that tells you all you need to know about g forces, car and engine telemetry, etc.

Oh, you mean the Playstation Vita? Nice of Nissan to throw that in for $110K.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

The 2015 M3 has an optional HUD with a shift indicator. It’s TBD if it will be as functional as the GTR’s setup on a track. From an aesthetics perspective, I find the 2015 M3 interior far more appealing than the GTR’s. It’s Nomos Glashütte versus Casio calculator watch with a leather band.

Can't comment on the F80 interior since I haven't seen it yet. No idea how it will feel on the track. But I sure hope they put on some damn shift lights for the manual gearbox this time around.

As far as the styling goes, I have only seen online pics. But to me it's as appealing as a cemetery. The interior seems like hardly an update on the E90 3 series that debuted 9 years ago. The only difference is that instead of the flush fitting double hump dash, the nav screen is now one of those iPad-style screens that look more like a cheap aftermarket addition than something from the factory.

Oh, you mean the Playstation Vita? Nice of Nissan to throw that in for $110K.

Much better than BMW. For that price they'd be happy to give you a "limited edition" E92 M3 with such awesome performance-enhancing mods such as frozen paint and very rare exclusive stickers.

[UnaBomber]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

And a lot of people wouldn't get a GTR if they were paid to take it. Like me.

thats too bad. I feel the same way about the watered down M models of today

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

And a lot of people wouldn't get a GTR if they were paid to take it. Like me.

What?

[Alex07M3]

I share Longboarders view on the GT-Rs, I like them but could never own one, just not my kind of package! I put them in the same category as the Vettes, cool cars but not for me!

[PurM3]

Panamera turbo as daily

[Mthrice]

The M3 vs. sub forum is the one place on MPost where youll find people who aren't total fanbois. If you cant take some divergent opinions you probably should stick to the general forums.

[UnaBomber]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I share Longboarders view on the GT-Rs, I like them but could never own one, just not my kind of package! I put them in the same category as the Vettes, cool cars but not for me!

I was really hoping to fall in love with the m4 to be honest. Havent seen one in person yet so I will wait until that happens

[mattixxg]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Isn't the gtr going in the next generation ?

I believe so...but Nissan hasnt be very forthcoming about it.

Originally Posted by Mthrice

and ragging on the GT-R for being to fast Hilarious!

Of all the boards ive ever been on..I have NEVER seen that statement.
Thats a truly pathetic defense...at least come back and say you can mod it better (even tho you cant-as far as maximized potential) but dont say that....thats embarrassing.

[Antiplod]

I'm not a fan-boy and I don't have allegiances to any manufacturer. Recently I've had an Audi RS6, followed by 2009 GTR - I sold it and got a 2013 M3. I have since given my partner the M3 and bought a 2013 GTR. I'm not a trained race driver, but I do do the occasional track day and I still have plenty to learn. Let me first say they are both good cars. I'm writing this as there has been some misleading stuff written on the forum. Here's my pennies worth of observations in no particular order:

First let me address the issue of comfort - now this depends upon whether you have kids or not. The seats in the front of the GTR are more comfortable especially on longer journeys, but in the back the M3 definitely has the edge as the seats are a bit of an after thought in the GTR - the roof in the back is low and as the seats cover the gearbox they are quite long, so not really suited to adults or kids on long journeys. Hence why I kept the M3.
While I'm on the subject of room; I'm not a big guy yet I find the M3 cramped at the front and my head nearly touches the roof liner. I feel I'm constantly trying to look below the visor to view the road. I'm not, but that's how it feels.
One of my biggest gripes with the M3 is the steering wheel, it feels like I'm trying to drive holding a pair of cucumbers and it can become quite painful on the palms after a while. Another gripe is that the paddle gear shifts rotate with the wheel so if you are coming out of a slow bend and want to blip up through the gears it can be difficult to figure where the up-shift paddle is. In the GTR the paddles are in fixed positions.
Ride. As you would expect in performance cars the rides are quite stiff. The softest ride (Conf mode) in the GTR is about the same as the hardest in the M3. For those of you unfamiliar with either of these cars the difference in suspension settings is quite subtle in either case.
Internal fit - the M3 is better than the 09 GTR, but the 13 GTR is better than the M3 (though in the back the M3 has the edge). My humble opinion of course. The difference is they have replaced a lot of plastic with carbon-fibre in the '13 GTR. It's less cluttered in the GTR too - for example I find the speedo difficult to read on the M3, especially when you spot a speed camera and want to get back down to a legal level quickly. I do like the illuminated shift knob on the M3 though - nice touch. The M3 has some other nice touches too like exterior door handle lights that stay on for a while after getting out.
Instruments, I've already mentioned the speedo - I find the M3 just too busy and not particularly ergonomic. Putting the menu control knob behind the gear lever is just plain stupid. It's probably OK if you spend time getting use to it so that you don't have to look down, taking your eyes off the road when you need to change mode, from radio to satnav for instance, but for me it's bad, bad, bad design. The touch screen or alternative dash mounted buttons on the GTR are much better. One strange thing on the GTR is the satnav, although it works fine it's just... odd looking. I like the M button on the steering wheel for a convenient boost on the M3 rather than dedicated switches on the dash of the GTR - however, you don't really need them (see the following paragraph on performance). The M3 menu system is quite comprehensive though complicated to use especially while driving. The GTR's is a lot simpler and clearer to use while still being comprehensive.
For those who are interested the boot in the GTR is bigger than the M3's, which is still quite useable for a weekend away with the missus.
Noise levels - OK this is a strange one to deal with. At low speeds (say under 50MPH) the M3 is quieter and seems to offer better noise insulation. As the speed rises the M3 becomes noisier. I find myself adjusting the radio volume a lot more in the M3 to compensate for more tire noise. Engine noise from the cars are very different and probably a matter of taste. The M3 sounds more high pitched and 'artificial' compared to the lower sounding growl of the GTR - I like both. On bad country lanes with lots of pot holes you can hear and feel every bump and stone in the GTR, probably due to there being less sound insulation.
Moving on to fuel economy - this one may be a surprise. I do a 116 mile round trip once or twice a week, which involves some town, some A road and some motorway. After several weeks, to get a good average from the trip computers, the GTR managed 24.7MPG, while the M3 managed 22.7MPG, which I found quite surprising (and disappointing) as I thought the M3 would be better. Drive either car hard and you WILL be stopping more regularly for gas than you would like. The GTR can gobble fuel particularly well.
Performance - This is a one horse race, the M3, though lively in its own way, feels sluggish after being in the GTR. I suspect a few of you are interested in this one so I'll expand on it a bit, and for those who say power isn't everything - go buy a 2 liter diesel. When you accelerate hard in the M3 you are pushed back into your seat quite pleasantly and if you haven't experienced a performance car before you would say it's thrilling. However, sit in the GTR and floor it and it's like a fairground ride - it is savage and when you come out the other side you have a big grin on your face. It's hard to explain, but as those turbos spool up it becomes a monster. One of the reasons I bought another.
Handling - both cars are different - BMW make nice handling cars. Driving around country lanes you quickly become quite confident in the way it grabs the tarmac and you get a feel for the limits. Contrary to popular belief the GTR requires input from the driver (and a bit of nerve). If you drive it like the BMW then you would struggle to keep up - you need to drive it like a GTR; what I mean by that is you need confidence to give it a bit of wellie through the bends at which point it will hunker down and get around the bend in double quick time, again it will out-run the M3. If you were in some fantasy car chase across Paris with lots of 90 degree bends around the streets then the smaller M3 would be pretty hard to beat. I only drive quickly on the open road. For overtaking the GTR offers more opportunities to do it safely. The M3 has a better turning circle due to the larger tires on the GTR.
For those who are interested in pose credentials no one notices the M3, where one hears 'nice car mate' when I'm in the GTR quite a lot. Not sure whether you would consider this a good or a bad thing. At least neither of them look like poncy Italian cars.
OK which one do I use day to day. Let me first answer that from my partner's perspective. If I'm driving she is indifferent as to which car we take out. If the kids are around we'll take the M3. Similarly my partner will take the M3 as it's her car even though she is insured to drive mine. Both cars are fun to drive and if someone said to me I'd have to have an M3 then I'd be more than happy as it is a good car. However, given the choice I'd take the GTR every time - I did 89,000 miles in the first one. It's more comfortable, roomy, and has mind altering performance and handling.

Hope that helps make a decision.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Antiplod

Hope that helps make a decision.

Probably not since OP is debating the new M3 which will be a complete different animal, should be similar to an 09-10 GT-R in terms of power and delivery but with even more luxury then the e9x M, but still, thanks for the effort!

And by the way if you're tired of adjusting the radio volume in the M3, you can set the car to do it for you in your idrive, it's called speed sensitive volume control I think and you can choose the level of adjustment you want!