[TractionControl=OFF]

Originally Posted by Matski

Because those cars, though somewhat niche, will still do far high volumes than a M Supercar would, and therefore generate money... rather than simply use it up.

Seriously, BMW sold far more X4's in the first two months it was on sale than Audi sold R8's ALL last year, and you can bet that it cost BMW less to develop the X4 than it did Audi to develop the R8 --- and crucially Audi don't have to worry so much about loosing money, they are already owned by VW... a fate I don't much want to happen with BMW.

well, being money hungry is making them blind of what motorsports and BMW is about.. the face of the brand has completely changed. The cars now have a nice design with good compression in their engines but I feel there is no soul in the car. I feel like no one at BMW wants the car to last long anymore since everyone trades their new one in for the newest model all the time

[Matski]

Originally Posted by TractionControl=OFF

well, being money hungry is making them blind of what motorsports and BMW is about.. the face of the brand has completely changed. The cars now have a nice design with good compression in their engines but I feel there is no soul in the car. I feel like no one at BMW wants the car to last long anymore since everyone trades their new one in for the newest model all the time

Blame society and our culture... people do want to upgrade for the newest hing all the time... that's not BMW's fault.. it's peoples.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by YungDro

I don't understand why they won't make one.. the i8 sold out like crazy.. they would make so much money from the supercar.. I just hope its a V10.

You're assuming they actually made money on the i8, which I doubt. And if they did, it probably wasn't much.

That said, I'm sure we'll see one some day. The i8 has too much good tech and manufacturing innovations so other cars in BMW's portfolio stand to benefit.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You're assuming they actually made money on the i8, which I doubt. And if they did, it probably wasn't much.

Going to be some time before they are in the green with the i-program. They will use other car sales to prop up the i-program balance sheet. In the long run, the huge $2bill initial investment in hybrid tech should pay off.

[Z@T]

Originally Posted by ///BMW (+)

Get rid of the X1, X4 and stop testing the X7
Also get rid of the GT models

That should free up some funds for a super car

Why would BMW shutdown the second most sold mini SUV in Europe? (Behind the Tiguan)
X4 is exceeding the sales as well like the X7 will do in the US.

[Dr.Jeff]

I recently sat in a i8 and really wasn't impressed... My M5 with full leather felt more refined. We need this car to compete with Audi and Porsche cause they both have super/hyper cars in their lineup. I felt the i8 was a waste of money for BMW in terms of performance and utilizing the 8 name. They should of used the design like others mentioned and proceeded with the setup like the P1 and 918 (V10 w electric motor) but on an affordable scale... It would sell out. P.s BMW quit making cars like the m4 dtm edition and make something special....

[ezmaass]

Let's put it this way - I'm an example of where BMW lost business. I own a 2015 R8 V10, nicely loaded - and because BMW didn't have an equivalent option, I put $190k+ into the hands of their competitor, Audi.

The R8 is truly an amazing car - fast, nimble, and probably one of the best handling cars I can say I've ever driven. And the looks - while subjective, I think they're drop dead gorgeous. The car is the perfect blend of classic Italian mid-engine supercar proportions with just the right touch of German muscular angles and lines. The interior? Supple and to the point - it's not all "confused" with little gadgets and nonsense. It feels sleek, high-end, and purpose-built for driving.

The engine is also a wonderful, wonderful thing of beauty. It's not just that BMW needs to build a supercar - but they need to realize what makes a car SUPER. The V10 in my R8 revs to nearly 9k RPM. It's naturally aspirated and produces some of the most enjoyable linear power-delivery you can imagine. While Audi is into their turbo engines just as much as BMW, they were smart enough to leave well enough alone with these engines (at least for the time being!). Yes, you can get more power and more fuel efficiency by turbocharging, but the power delivery is never quite the same. The power in this car is like a nice smooth tidal wave... a perfect linear whine of engine noise behind your head underpinned by a howl from the exhaust... very predictable, very manageable, and like butter. BMW has been all about reducing cylinder count and turbocharging the hell out of their engines... and while that may do the trick for a sports sedan, it doesn't work as well IMHO on a platform like this.

BMW instead chose to invest in the i8 - producing a $140k car that can barely qualify as a sports car. Yes, it has all of the looks of a modern-day supercar, but its price far exceeds its performance - and with tires that melt and batteries that give out after 3 laps on the track, there's nothing "super" about it. It makes for a nice toy - and those seeking a conversation piece chock full of interesting technologies that are still bleeding edge will love it. But guys seeking ACTUAL performance, and not just the looks, won't even consider it as it doesn't play in the same circles as an R8, SLS, Turbo S, etc.

You can say that Audi has a bit of an advantage - their parent company, VW, has far more resources, including ownership of Lamborghini where the V10 engine, exhaust components, and several other parts are directly sourced. There's no mistaking it - when you get in and drive the R8, you can immediately feel the Lamborghini DNA. But Audi has invested a ton of money into the R8, as early as 2003 with the Le Mans Concept, which later became the basis of the R8 design. They were just WAY ahead of BMW in their desire and intention to bring a supercar to market... and apparently still so.

Call me skeptical, but the hybrid electric drive in supercars fad is nothing more than - well, a fad. The LaFerrari's hybrid drive gets only 0.7mpg better economy than the F12's full V12. And at what premium? So, this isn't about fuel economy. And to be honest, I don't think it's about performance either. You can argue that it's about early-stage technologies - maybe. But Audi's eTron and Ferrari's LaFerrari are options in their supercar line-up... not THE option, as opposed to BMW which seems to have put all of its eggs in an early technology basket, while producing mediocre results.

In any case, I do hope BMW comes to its senses and delivers an actual supercar to the market. I would probably have been a buyer if the styling was strong (the i8 was just "ehh") along with its performance as I still prefer BMW as a brand over Audi. I hate to say it, but I think Audi has a massive leg-up on BMW, and the gap may continue to widen, making it harder for BMW to catch up, as they continue to drag their feet to market.

In the time being, I enjoy everything about the R8 on a daily basis - even if I can't get it out for a drive, a peak in the garage is heaven. It's a stunning car that really has the best of supercar power and handling in a car that can almost be driven daily. No less, it's gorgeous looks have become iconic. It's hard to take the car anywhere without little kids and adults alike taking pleasure in seeing it, usually with references to Iron Man from the younger crowd. All I can say is BMW has a LOT of ground to cover in catching up to this thing, while Audi's biggest concern should be not screwing it up with their next design.

[Spineless]

Originally Posted by GuyOh

stop making those damn gts

Why are people dissing on the GTs? I own a 3GT and it is fantastic. We wouldn't trade it for anything.

[monkiboy48]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

There is some responses here that myself and many of my colleagues in Munich try not to choke when spitting out the word "enthusiast" in anger.
Granted it is a minority.

The most important thing that has been overlooked in this non relevant "puff piece" which I will explain why because BMW executives do not mention future products as the fact which this report has done. Interviews are conducted in the face of handlers which make sure you do not reveal too much.

But overlooked in the article is the fact that the BMW halo Sports car the BMW i8 has just hit the market and is not even a year on sale.

Why would BMW follow up this car immediately with something else when they are making headlines with this achievement.
There is headlines and attributes on the i8 but there is one phrase that echos in every sentence written about the i8 ....The Future...

The Future... The i8 is many achievements and answers the realm of possibility for a company like BMW it has the ability to be a landmark and a beacon for what is possible in a sports car. The i8 is a pioneer in many areas it does embarrass established sports cars especially what has been achieved for either less or the same money. The i8 is innovation at its highest peak , the i8 is desirability and like I said the i8 is The Future.
A road no one has even bothered to drive on. But they will...Eventually they will.

If we look at the i8 it might be a new product but its possibilities have grown since its sign off, it is too early to all about anything yet but let's us say that the possibilities and potential have increased and can very much retain the philosophy of the i8 in which less is most definitely more.
As is the M Division that can use the technical know-how and material construction.

The problem lies with patience. Some refuse to acknowledge the i8 because it is Not... And that is its character and reception because it is not...
There lies its status as BMWs halo car. Because its a window to what will be coming to your 7er , 5er and 3er. Its the template to an exciting future for volume cars and for BMW as a manufacturer as it will allow targets to be reached and exceed normal construction methods ahead of their competitors.

For now the moment belongs to the i8. Others will get their moment but patience is needed to allow progress.

And let the new guys get to work.

First off, I would like to thank you for all your contributions to this forum as everyone here can agree with me that you always provide invaluable insight into BMW. That being said, I understand your take on this matter and wanted to add that while we can all agree that the technology gained from the i8 will eventually trickle down to other models (for the better) I would like to know BMW M's goals when creating a new vehicle. I respectfully ask this because it seems like the goals have radically changed starting with the introduction of the X5/X6M. Maybe the new goals of BMW M don't align with the type of car I want to drive and that's fine.

In the meantime, I patiently await the next product from BMW M and hope for the day that the execs allow them to build a sports car.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

There is some responses here that myself and many of my colleagues in Munich try not to choke when spitting out the word "enthusiast" in anger.
Granted it is a minority.

The most important thing that has been overlooked in this non relevant "puff piece" which I will explain why because BMW executives do not mention future products as the fact which this report has done. Interviews are conducted in the face of handlers which make sure you do not reveal too much.

But overlooked in the article is the fact that the BMW halo Sports car the BMW i8 has just hit the market and is not even a year on sale.

Why would BMW follow up this car immediately with something else when they are making headlines with this achievement.
There is headlines and attributes on the i8 but there is one phrase that echos in every sentence written about the i8 ....The Future...

The Future... The i8 is many achievements and answers the realm of possibility for a company like BMW it has the ability to be a landmark and a beacon for what is possible in a sports car. The i8 is a pioneer in many areas it does embarrass established sports cars especially what has been achieved for either less or the same money. The i8 is innovation at its highest peak , the i8 is desirability and like I said the i8 is The Future.
A road no one has even bothered to drive on. But they will...Eventually they will.

If we look at the i8 it might be a new product but its possibilities have grown since its sign off, it is too early to all about anything yet but let's us say that the possibilities and potential have increased and can very much retain the philosophy of the i8 in which less is most definitely more.
As is the M Division that can use the technical know-how and material construction.

The problem lies with patience. Some refuse to acknowledge the i8 because it is Not... And that is its character and reception because it is not...
There lies its status as BMWs halo car. Because its a window to what will be coming to your 7er , 5er and 3er. Its the template to an exciting future for volume cars and for BMW as a manufacturer as it will allow targets to be reached and exceed normal construction methods ahead of their competitors.

For now the moment belongs to the i8. Others will get their moment but patience is needed to allow progress.

And let the new guys get to work.

This just confirms that the decision not to develop a real sports car is purely marketing driven. BMW is on the i-train right now, and a true petrol sports car does not fit into this image right now. The i8 is a halo car, but not a real sports car. The "Future" - no, not really. One aspect of it, certainly. And apparently the one that BMW is most interested in expanding right now. If the "Future" (or the past decades) exclude BMW wanting to build a real sportscar - so be it.

46 years is already a lot of patience, I would say...

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Let's put it this way - I'm an example of where BMW lost business. I own a 2015 R8 V10, nicely loaded - and because BMW didn't have an equivalent option, I put $190k+ into the hands of their competitor, Audi.

Exactly like myself. And I know of a few others that are / were in exactly the same situation.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Exactly like myself. And I know of a few others that are / were in exactly the same situation.

I would have really loved to be able to cross shop BMW in the decision to buy a car like this. But I think VW's ownership of Lambo, Bentley, and Porsche is only going to add more "umph" to Audi's ability to put out a leading German supercar, while BMW is going to be playing catch-up for a while. While I have considerable faith in BMW, the fact is they don't have a sister company with the pedigree to borrow technology as Audi did - so they're inherently disadvantaged, no less putting themselves further behind willingly.

[sebaflex]

They should have done this years ago. 2008-2010. Mid Engine Sports Car similar to an R8. With an S85 in the back. Perfection... They would have sold all of them.

Can't understand why it never happened.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by sebaflex

They should have done this years ago. 2008-2010. Mid Engine Sports Car similar to an R8. With an S85 in the back. Perfection... They would have sold all of them.

Can't understand why it never happened.

Dunno. Probably something to do with the fact that BMW can't leverage platforms and engines from Lamborghini like Audi can to help reduce R&D costs.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

I would have really loved to be able to cross shop BMW in the decision to buy a car like this. But I think VW's ownership of Lambo, Bentley, and Porsche is only going to add more "umph" to Audi's ability to put out a leading German supercar, while BMW is going to be playing catch-up for a while. While I have considerable faith in BMW, the fact is they don't have a sister company with the pedigree to borrow technology as Audi did - so they're inherently disadvantaged, no less putting themselves further behind willingly.

Perhaps they should look to buy in to an exotic brand, owning a chunk of something really special might be useful. Or tie up with a manufacturer, a partnership between McLaren and BMW would be lovely to see

[BMW269]

Actually very few companies are able to build real sports cars: Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Lotus (but don't know how to run a business), Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford and Renault, not to mention Pagani and Koenigsegg.
As you see, no Audi, no BMW. The Audi is a Lamborghini Gallardo/Huracan, the BMW M1 was a Lamborghini too.

In other words, BMW doesn't have the know-how. Now with Toyota they will. What BMW knows on the other hand is to build engines with good performance and now how to manufacture mass carbon fibre.

(If BMW knows how to build real sports cars, they have to prove it.)

[MParallel]

BMW deserves a good old stinking petrol powered N/A V10 supercar!

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by clbmw

Perhaps they should look to buy in to an exotic brand, owning a chunk of something really special might be useful. Or tie up with a manufacturer, a partnership between McLaren and BMW would be lovely to see

You mean like the BMW S70 engine in the Mclaren F1? They worked together before, why not again. A possible answer is that Mclaren seems to be doing adequately (does dominating count as adequate?) in that segment all on their own.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

You mean like the BMW S70 engine in the Mclaren F1? They worked together before, why not again. A possible answer is that Mclaren seems to be doing adequately (does dominating count as adequate?) in that segment all on their own.

Yeah that's a good point, but the last BMW McLaren partnership did create one of the best cars ever made... Maybe one day McLaren will want something BMW has and we'll see the collaboration again. Aston Martin borrowed a Toyota IQ if I remember rightly and called it a Sygnet. Maybe McLaren could borrow the 35UP platform and lend the 650S chassis to BMW.

[TractionControl=OFF]

Originally Posted by Matski

Blame society and our culture... people do want to upgrade for the newest hing all the time... that's not BMW's fault.. it's peoples.

its pompous asshole douchebags that like to power trip on everyone, and think they are better than everyone else, they just gotta have the newest one to show off to everyone. People who are content will drive any year bmw depending on the model and condition

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Levi

Actually very few companies are able to build real sports cars:
As you see, no Audi, no BMW. The Audi is a Lamborghini Gallardo/Huracan

Ok so pursuant to your logic there were no Audi engineers involved in the conception of the Gallardo or the Huracan. Or that there was no Audi technology transferred after Audi bought Lamborghini.

I think you should switch to a different medication.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Dunno. Probably something to do with the fact that BMW can't leverage platforms and engines from Lamborghini like Audi can to help reduce R&D costs.

Yeah, this..

Thought I'd knock up a little sales graph to demonstrate the difference between what the likes of Audi, Porsche and Lamborghini get to work with under VW ownership, compared to BMW.

It's based on 2013 Global Figures.. just under 10 million vehicles for the VW group, just under 2 million for BMW. That is what generates the money, and the ability to put Porsches, R8's, Lambo's, and cars like the 918 and Veyron out there.