[Roundown]

Re: the death of the sports car. Didn't the 911 - rather surprisingly - just outsell the Cayenne and Macaan for the month of October?

[mmmmm235i]

This is just an odd statement when BMW is not even in the business of building a pure sports car. As others have said cars like the corvette continue to sell well because they are much more focused. If you can have a flashy weekend car that can hang with just about anything on the road for 60k, why would you shell out 80k for an m4 with less power and less aggressive styling for a weekend car. Others have correctly pointed out that those buying a weekend car usually are driving an SUV or larger sedan most of the time, which BMW sells and builds really well. When it comes to comparable sedans and SUVs, BMW is pretty much on par with other brands with similiar offerings. BMW has followed other brands and have continued to make bigger and bigger cars. BMW makes sporty and some performance oriented daily drivers, but no full on sports car. As others have pointed out the z4, tt, and slk do not compare to caymans or boxsters at similiar price.
I think the M2 is slotted to fill this role for BMW and is extremely important to maintaining the brand's reputation for sport offerings. I drive an m235i and you can get out the door with a pretty nice one around 45k. This car offers more practicality and more power than a roadster and the M2 will certainly be even better. The M2 should come in at a price around a corvette and will hopefully offer similiar performance and aggressive enough styling to be a great car to play with on the weekends.
The fact is no one wants an impractical 2-seater that doesn't perform and is too expensive to be an extra car.
It is fine for BMW to admit that its bread and butter is a mix of performance and luxury and building a pure sports car is unimportant to them, but to say that the market is gone is just not true. I think for the right price there are also enough people like us who are willing to have a rough daily drive to have a car that can really perform, but the z4 is not that.

[ORIGIN M.]

Bring-on the affordable Z3 drop top / hard top twins that simply deliver, and there will be little to be unhappy about.

The Z5 is about to become half Toyota anyways.

Maybe the two manufacturers can pull a winner out of their magic hats.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

The M2 should come in at a price around a corvette and will hopefully offer similiar performance and aggressive enough styling to be a great car to play with on the weekends. .

I'm planning on picking up the M2 but I don't think there's a chance in hell it will offer similar performance to the C7 corvette. I'm just hoping for a well balanced, fun, comfortable daily driver.

[Imola.ZHP]

I think a big problem is that BMW does not market Z cars very well, they have almost no presence at dealerships either. If you market a car properly, it will sell, or at lease sell better. They might not have had to do such marketing pre 2008, but times have changed, either change with them (by using more marketing) or suffer the consequences.

Have dealerships display at least one in some sort of glorified manner, I realize dealerships are individually owned, but give them some sort of direction, or incentive to display the car, or at least have a few in stock.

/rant

[IB M]

Sorry but to me problem with Z4 is it has looks only it's mother could love. I am just not a fan. Boxster or 3/4 series vert are both ten times better looking. Just my opinion.

[MacOSR]

Hmmm...at least for the Corvette it looks like their sales have drastically declined which supports this article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette (scroll to the bottom to see production numbers by year).

[MacOSR]

Here are Porsche 911 production numbers: http://www.porschemag.com/render.cfm...uction_volumes (scroll to the bottom of the page)

[NickyC]

I forgot to mention, I wouldn't put much stock in GMs sales numbers regarding the Corvette. They are channel stuffing at all time highs right now, so much like other economic data these days, who the hell knows what the truth is.

[modkrazy]

Sports cars aren't dead, you just don't know how to make one.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by 02CBM3

Combined global sales of the TT, SLK and BMW’s Z4 peaked at about 114,000 in 2007 before slumping 45 percent by 2010, according to research company IHS Automotive.

I believe the key issue with the assessment of shrinking sports car market is the definition of "sports car" as that trio.

If BMW offers up a true M 2 seater they will find takers.

I personally will contribute to the "shrinking market" by not getting another Z4 because of the high weight, lack of LSD option, insufficient brake heat capacity and cooling system capacity.

But in reality, I am still in the "sports car" market because I'm considering 981 Cayman S, C7 Z51 and F80 M3 to replace the Z4

Hope BMW figures out the issue is with their "sports car" and not the market...

[davis449]

There really isn't much in here for me to say considering I side with many of the opinions expressed in this thread, but I will reiterate the lighting package argument just because it's one thing that just really eats at me. It is complete bullshit that Xenons aren't std. on not just BMW's, but across the board for these luxury car makers with these high as MSRP's. WTF? Just ridiculous!

[parabola]

I see a fwd bmw minivan in the future.

[templarklimek]

This is going to become speculation becomes reality for BMW. Many of us "pure" sports car buyers will crossover to Porsche or a Corvette. Then we will decide "well, since I bought a caymen or vette, i'll buy my DD or housefrau's car from the same brand." I do that now, an M3, M6 and X1 for the house frau." Careful BMW... please don't discard your loyal customer base!!

[Cuz5150]

All I gotta say to BMW is the M2 better Be Special and Priced right or else the masses will exit, and Never return. $85K M3-M4 just will not fly these days.
As of now, holding on to my M3's. If the M2 is a bust or too expensive....corvette, Mustang, camaro used GT-r here i come

[Matski]

Wow, BMW really need to stop wasting time employing market analysts who know what they are doing and start employing people from this forum... that would sort them right out. I'm sure the US-centric viewpoint would do wonders for their global sales.

[IB M]

Originally Posted by Matski

Wow, BMW really need to stop wasting time employing market analysts who know what they are doing and start employing people from this forum... that would sort them right out. I'm sure the US-centric viewpoint would do wonders for their global sales.

What do u think is driving the bigger and bigger cars ... US tastes. Like it or not we yanks still have lots of borrowed money from the Chinese to spend.

[antzcrashing]

The price of a BMW M3 has risen much faster than the income has, so people have been forced/opted for lesser cars. And cellphones have killed the manual transmission. Some people dont want sports cars because they appear juvenile, so they go for SUVs. But, the few enthusiasts that are still out there, i.e. us, still have a passion for sports cars.

[jts1981]

Originally Posted by IB M

Sorry but to me problem with Z4 is it has looks only it's mother could love. I am just not a fan. Boxster or 3/4 series vert are both ten times better looking. Just my opinion.

False. I have a Z4 and I have M5, M3, 911, Cayman, and Boxster owners always complimenting my car. The car is gorgeous and never fails to get a a thumbs up. In fact Jeremy Clarkson raved about how great it looked.

As an own I can tell you the major problem with the Z is that BMW built it as a tourer only. The IS, which I own, shares the same M N54 as the M135 and it hauls ass. The N54 + DCT has great potential. There are members going through the parts bin and applying M suspension. Clearly there could have been an M version but the marketing gurus at BMW are not true enthusiasts. It's all about the bottom line.

Also in regards to marketing, if you look at all the videos they never compare the Z35is to the Boxster S, but the lesser Z35i which has less power, less cooling, and less brakes. Either they should compare top model to top model, or lesser model to lesser model. Its unfortunate that many people watch the videos and never know good the Z35is can be.

I love my Z and I'm a firm believer it will be a classic. Its a great car that came out at the wrong time.

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

The price of a BMW M3 has risen much faster than the income has, so people have been forced/opted for lesser cars. And cellphones have killed the manual transmission. Some people dont want sports cars because they appear juvenile, so they go for SUVs. But, the few enthusiasts that are still out there, i.e. us, still have a passion for sports cars.

Could you do us a favor and plug the price of a new M3 for each generation into an inflation calculator. Has the price of an M3 increased or decreased since its inception?

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

Could you do us a favor and plug the price of a new M3 for each generation into an inflation calculator. Has the price of an M3 increased or decreased since its inception?

Was going to say that's an unfair comparison too. You're getting a hell of a lot more car than 25 years ago.

[dreamspeed]

Originally Posted by wdeerfield

amen. you get much better value and options for a similar performing vehicle at half the cost. when a nissan altima has 260hp and all the bells and whistles a bmw has for only 26k, its hard for the everyday consumer to justify 50k for a 3 series that still doesnt have xenon headlights or fold down seats or comfort access. a 25k accord has all that and lane departure, back up camera, etc..

cant wait to see the 1k increase in cost for 2016 vehicles from bmw when the new law requiring backup cameras is implemented. bmw will reduce the screen size of that to 4in while competitors will include navi and a 9in screen.

and before the fanboys jump in.. yea yea.. driving dynamics. none of that matters to the everyday consumer. they mostly care about that lil 76mm roundel if anything. But there comes a point where lacking features and a basic looking interior drive individuals away.