[Andrew115]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

told ya that turbo M was not gonna work...

And it's not working why? So this is the reason he left huh?

[Diver]

I wish him luck at his new job.

[ClubsportJunkie]

Just spec'ed out my first Hyundai....I got their Genesis 5.0L (which basically has all the same tech (HUD, electronic dampeners, and a 8 speed ZF gearbox) as my 435i, but mmmmm V8) and it was cheaper than my 435i by about 5 g's....on top of that Hyundai will be bring Apple Carplay....this is going to get interesting...I may have to test drive it. Anyone driven Hyundai's electo-hydraulic steering?

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by EnI

The reason many BMW top managers are leaving now is the so called "Rule 60" which is strictly followed within BMW AG.

It's an internal BMW AG corporate rule saying BMW top executive officials (heads, chiefs, presidents, vice-presidents etc) can only be in the top position until they turn 60 - then they are obliged to step down (and either retire, leave for a job @ another company, or take a non-executive job within BMW - which is actually a downgrade for a person's career).

Therefore many active top BMW managers (who want to continue their respected managerial careers) prepare to leave the company when they are close to 60, and continue their careers @ other companies ... even beyond 60. And if / when they got an attractive offer, they definitely take it.

Current BMW Group CEO Reithofer is 58, M GmbH CEO Nitschke is 59, BMW Group Head of R&B Diess is 57, and Biermann is 56.

Meaning they are all under "Rule 60" impact in the following few years. Therefore it's time for a new generation of managers. BMW AG new CEO Krüger (ex-chief of production BMW Group) is 49, new M GmbH director van Meel (ex-managing director of Audi Quattro GmbH division) is 48 etc. I'm sure M GmbH Head of development will also be someone younger.

And so Diess went to VAG to manage VW Passenger Cars Division, Biermann went to Hyundai, Nitschke is retiring, Reithofer will be offer a position of BMW Group supervisory board chairman (which is a top non-executive position within BMW Group - current held by ex-CEO Milberg who is 71).

Fröhlich, who replaced Diess as BMW Group Chief of R&D is also turning 55 soon, so he's also close to 60. I would not be surprised he also leaves soon and is replaced with someone younger.

There's no other reason behind ... No conspiracy theory. No Armageddon approaching. It's a natural change of generations @ top positions in the company. BMW AG does it every decade, actually. In 2006 Reithofer replaced Panke who was 60 then. And in in May 2015 Krüger will replace Reithofer who will turn 59 then.

It sure would have been nice if this was included along side the press release. Of course, the press agency isn't going to publish this, because it takes the wind of our Hyundai's sails, but for BMW fans, this explains a lot.

I had a suspicion that there might be other reasons at play. Biermann is clearly not a young guy. It is not unusual for aging executives to use their experience to pivot in to jobs where they have less direct managerial responsibility, and take over visionary positions at companies who will receive a brand boost from their newfound talent.

This is a very good fit for Biermann. Hyundai gets a guy who can help set a point on the horizon, and Biermann gets to move in to a position where he can relax a little and let other people be accountable.

[Accel Junky]

Never heard of that rule...pretty wild.

[tallshortguy]

The koreans are throwing serious money and top positions to pick up top talent. Peter Schreyer for example. Looks like albert will be heading their entire performance arm.

[RMG]

Originally Posted by EnI

Don't worry ... the show must go on. And it will go on.

I am not necessarily worried, there are plenty talented young people coming from German and/or EU technical universities to choose from. And I am not against buying a car that would look better than a BMW ( because it might be designed by Peter Schreyer), car having with a better feeling/ handling than anything in his class and ...cheaper. I am not a badge follower, give me a better car and I am buying it.
Imho Biermann's case is way more serious compared with a BMW CEO retiring for example. His background and experience ( racing, M division, etc) makes him very valuable. He knows how to distill a BMW "feeling" into a new chassis or new engine, he knows how BMW does that. That's what the Koreans are after. Him leaving for a company full of resources and ambition as Hyundai should send shock waves in the BMW upper management. How damaging this move is will be seen in 5-10 years from now.
Interesting to watch...that's for sure.

[EnI]

Remember Bernd Pischetsrieder? Long-term BMW CEO (1993-1999) who was fired over ill Rover takeover which pushed BMW deep into red numbers. After he was fired by BMW, he was hired by VW to become a CEO there.

And Wolfgang Reitzle, ex R&D chief @ BMW AG, who left for Ford's PAG division (Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover) after he wasn't chosen for Pischetsrieder's successor as the new CEO of BMWAG.

And eg. Stefan Krause - BMW AG CFO under Helmut Panke - left for Deutsche Bank in the middle of his term @ BMW.

Or eg. Peter Schwarzenbauer - current BMW AG board member, responsible for Group's aftersales activities - who was poached from Audi where he was Head of Sales.

Or current BMW AG Head of HR, Milagros Caiña Carreiro-Andree, who came from Deutsche Bahn.

Or eg. Ulrich Bruhnke - who came to the CEO of M GmbH position directly from the Head of MB AMG division post.

Same case with Frank van Meel - the new BMW M GmbH CEO - whose previous post was Managing Director of Audi Quattro GmbH division.

Top managers do migrate from one company to another. It's not such a rare case. And the fluctuation among designers (incl. design chiefs) is even more severe. Not to mention the engineers. Yet usually such news doesn't hit the headlines at all.

[RMG]

Originally Posted by EnI

Remember Bernd Pischetsrieder? Long-term BMW CEO (1993-1999) who was fired over ill Rover takeover which pushed BMW deep into red numbers. After he was fired by BMW, he was hired by VW to become a CEO there.

And Wolfgang Reitzle, ex R&D chief @ BMW AG, who left for Ford's PAG division (Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover) after he wasn't chosen for Pischetsrieder's successor as the new CEO of BMWAG.

And eg. Stefan Krause - BMW AG CFO under Helmut Panke - left for Deutsche Bank in the middle of his term @ BMW.

Or eg. Peter Schwarzenbauer - current BMW AG board member, responsible for Group's aftersales activities - who was poached from Audi where he was Head of Sales.



Or current BMW AG Head of HR, Milagros Caiña Carreiro-Andree, who came from Deutsche Bahn.

Or eg. Ulrich Bruhnke - who came to the CEO of M GmbH position directly from the Head of MB AMG division post.

Same case with Frank van Meel - the new BMW M GmbH CEO - whose previous post was Managing Director of Audi Quattro GmbH division.

Top managers do migrate from one company to another. It's not such a rare case. And the fluctuation among designers (incl. design chiefs) is even more severe. Not to mention the engineers. Yet usually such news doesn't hit the headlines at all.

Imho Biermann's case is way more serious compared with a BMW CEO retiring for example. His background and experience ( racing, M division, etc) makes him very valuable. He knows how to distill a BMW "feeling" into a new chassis or new engine, he knows how BMW does that. That's what the Koreans are after. Him leaving for a company full of resources and ambition as Hyundai should send shock waves in the BMW upper management. How damaging this move is will be seen in 5-10 years from now.

[EnI]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

The koreans are throwing serious money and top positions to pick up top talent. Peter Schreyer for example. Looks like albert will be heading their entire performance arm.

Hyundai also poached Chris Chapman, ex-Head of Automotive & Transport Design @ BMW DesignWorksUSA. Not only Chapman is an excellent manager but also a prominent and talented designer who penned exteriors of BMW E53 X5, E87 1-series, Concept CS1, and Concept x-Coupe).

Chapman now runs Hyundai's design studio in US.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by sand99

Dayam. And GM just announced that the next CTS-V will arrive next year with 640 HP/630 torque...2016 Cadillac CTS-V arrives with 640 hp, 200-mph top speed

I'm really proud of where Cadillac is heading, but BMW isn't incapable of producing an engine of such power. I'll withhold an opinion until this hits the streets.

Originally Posted by Tracus

If a guy of this stature and experience leaves BMW, then I do belive that something is fishy in Bavaria.
And he leaves M for what? Like really?

I don't even know what to think... Like, there is no pride (from BMW and from him as well)?
I find his gesture very disturbing, close to the treason side, after thirty something years, you are leaving for another company. I thought that guys like this, are bond to a special niche like M, like a priest to a religion...
It is hard for me to believe that the choice was made from thegreed point of view...

On the other side, I wonder if BMW has something to do with it.

When people are moving arround in a company, the products end up to be poor. You need stability, loyalty and dedication to have a successful product. When you have staff moving arround, you will end up with nothing of quality.

Man, what a disappointment...

Originally Posted by EnI

The reason many BMW top managers are leaving now is the so called "Rule 60" which is strictly followed within BMW AG.

It's an internal BMW AG corporate rule saying BMW top executive officials (heads, chiefs, presidents, vice-presidents etc) can only be in the top position until they turn 60 - then they are obliged to step down (and either retire, leave for a job @ another company, or take a non-executive job within BMW - which is actually a downgrade for a person's career).

Therefore many active top BMW managers (who want to continue their respected managerial careers) prepare to leave the company when they are close to 60, and continue their careers @ other companies ... even beyond 60. And if / when they got an attractive offer, they definitely take it.

Current BMW Group CEO Reithofer is 58, M GmbH CEO Nitschke is 59, BMW Group Head of R&B Diess is 57, and Biermann is 56.

Meaning they are all under "Rule 60" impact in the following few years. Therefore it's time for a new generation of managers. BMW AG new CEO Krüger (ex-chief of production BMW Group) is 49, new M GmbH director van Meel (ex-managing director of Audi Quattro GmbH division) is 48 etc. I'm sure M GmbH Head of development will also be someone younger.

And so Diess went to VAG to manage VW Passenger Cars Division, Biermann went to Hyundai, Nitschke is retiring, Reithofer will be offer a position of BMW Group supervisory board chairman (which is a top non-executive position within BMW Group - current held by ex-CEO Milberg who is 71).

Fröhlich, who replaced Diess as BMW Group Chief of R&D is also turning 55 soon, so he's also close to 60. I would not be surprised he also leaves soon and is replaced with someone younger.

There's no other reason behind ... No conspiracy theory. No Armageddon approaching. It's a natural change of generations @ top positions in the company. BMW AG does it every decade, actually. In 2006 Reithofer replaced Panke who was 60 then. And in in May 2015 Krüger will replace Reithofer who will turn 59 then.

Really interesting, thanks for this

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Get over it! It's been almost 10 years since the first Turbo M.

Agreed.

[Stash21]

Reminds me of glengarry glen Ross.

"F@@k you that's my name. You know why mister cause you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight, I drove an $80,000 bmw."

[MI6]

Originally Posted by EnI

Remember Bernd Pischetsrieder? Long-term BMW CEO (1993-1999) who was fired over ill Rover takeover which pushed BMW deep into red numbers. After he was fired by BMW, he was hired by VW to become a CEO there.

And Wolfgang Reitzle, ex R&D chief @ BMW AG, who left for Ford's PAG division (Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover) after he wasn't chosen for Pischetsrieder's successor as the new CEO of BMWAG.

And eg. Stefan Krause - BMW AG CFO under Helmut Panke - left for Deutsche Bank in the middle of his term @ BMW.

Or eg. Peter Schwarzenbauer - current BMW AG board member, responsible for Group's aftersales activities - who was poached from Audi where he was Head of Sales.

Or current BMW AG Head of HR, Milagros Caiña Carreiro-Andree, who came from Deutsche Bahn.

Or eg. Ulrich Bruhnke - who came to the CEO of M GmbH position directly from the Head of MB AMG division post.

Same case with Frank van Meel - the new BMW M GmbH CEO - whose previous post was Managing Director of Audi Quattro GmbH division.

Top managers do migrate from one company to another. It's not such a rare case. And the fluctuation among designers (incl. design chiefs) is even more severe. Not to mention the engineers. Yet usually such news doesn't hit the headlines at all.

EnI is right- get over it............not a big deal.

We are getting a guy from Ferrari and one from Audi, bout' time we get new blood and brains.

Thanks EnI............

Now in five years if BMW ends up sucking we will be at your house with pitchforks........

[krnnerdboy]

I was just talking to someone who worked for Hyundai, and they were gloating about how great they treat their employees at all levels.... Bravo

[123sub]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

A lot of it has to do with the way car companies are held accountable for their fuel economy and emissions standards. CAFE, for example, is a corporate average. Toyota is able to treat Lexus as a subsidiary, and therefore roll their sales in to their overall corporate average. This means that Toyota gets to use all their Prius sales to offset the sale of a few thousand RC F models.

When you start reading up on how the fuel economy and emissions standards work, the moves that BMW are making begin to make more sense. BMW has to change the way they make cars. They can't continue making every single model driver-focused, naturally aspirated, RWD, because that formula doesn't provide the emissions and fuel economy numbers they need to pull their average up. Even M models have had to make some concessions, because by global auto manufacturer standards, BMW is still a small-ish company.

As forward thinking as BMW is, the i program is there to solve a problem. Mini sales are flailing, and BMW needs a boost to their overall environmental performance. Lexus has no such problem.

RC F, explained.

Thanks. I guess it is the same with Audi RS4/5 and the VAG Company then. And we have the Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge Challenger, Ford Mustang and Hyundai Genesis. All available with NA.

[EnI]

I guess Biermann tried to avoid the fate that hit his predecessor: the legendary M Technical Director Dr. Bernard Richter who had been replaced @ his 55s with Biermann (then 50) in the beginning of 2008, and was named Head of Project BMW Gran Turismo within M GmbH - a project (a luxury sports coupe based on Concept CS) that was ditched few months later, and Richter then completely vanished from the business. What a pity! That was such a bad HR move!

So, Biermann acted proactively and left - before BMW bosses were even able to throw him under the bus (due to Rule 60).

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by Tracus

If a guy of this stature and experience leaves BMW, then I do belive that something is fishy in Bavaria.
And he leaves M for what? Like really?

I don't even know what to think... Like, there is no pride (from BMW and from him as well)?
I find his gesture very disturbing, close to the treason side, after thirty something years, you are leaving for another company. I thought that guys like this, are bond to a special niche like M, like a priest to a religion...
It is hard for me to believe that the choice was made from thegreed point of view...

On the other side, I wonder if BMW has something to do with it.

When people are moving arround in a company, the products end up to be poor. You need stability, loyalty and dedication to have a successful product. When you have staff moving arround, you will end up with nothing of quality.

Man, what a disappointment...

I'm with ya brotha I also agree that he didn't leave for the $$$. My guess is he bumped heads with others and got tired of it.

[ShocknAwe]

On the other hand it will be VERY interesting to see what Hyundai puts out starting in a few years.

[Doctor///M]

Originally Posted by EnI

I guess Biermann tried to avoid the fate that hit his predecessor: the legendary M Technical Director Dr. Bernard Richter who had been replaced @ his 55s with Biermann (then 50) in the beginning of 2008, and was named Head of Project BMW Gran Turismo within M GmbH - a project (a luxury sports coupe based on Concept CS) that was ditched few months later, and Richter then completely vanished from the business. What a pity! That was such a bad HR move!

So, Biermann acted proactively and left - before BMW bosses were even able to throw him under the bus (due to Rule 60).

Good on you for talking some sense into this thread.

[Ghetto2315]

Can I be honest for a second? Before my current 12' E92 M3, I had a 10' Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track and I miss it dearly. It was a fun, quick, and capable car. Obviously the interior materials used weren't up to par but I didn't get the Genesis Coupe for that reason. My friends couldn't believe that I got the Genesis Coupe, nor could they believe that it was a Hyundai. After that car, I was a firm believer that Hyundai was going to make very big strides in the market and they (including KIA) have done so. I wish nothing but the best for Biermann and I am confident that he'll infuse some ///Magic in to the Hyundai brand.

[BD SM3RF]

Originally Posted by EnI

The reason many BMW top managers are leaving now is the so called "Rule 60" which is strictly followed within BMW AG.

It's an internal BMW AG corporate rule saying BMW top executive officials (heads, chiefs, presidents, vice-presidents etc) can only be in the top position until they turn 60 - then they are obliged to step down (and either retire, leave for a job @ another company, or take a non-executive job within BMW - which is actually a downgrade for a person's career).

Therefore many active top BMW managers (who want to continue their respected managerial careers) prepare to leave the company when they are close to 60, and continue their careers @ other companies ... even beyond 60. And if / when they got an attractive offer, they definitely take it.

Current BMW Group CEO Reithofer is 58, M GmbH CEO Nitschke is 59, BMW Group Head of R&B Diess is 57, and Biermann is 56.

Meaning they are all under "Rule 60" impact in the following few years. Therefore it's time for a new generation of managers. BMW AG new CEO Krüger (ex-chief of production BMW Group) is 49, new M GmbH director van Meel (ex-managing director of Audi Quattro GmbH division) is 48 etc. I'm sure M GmbH Head of development will also be someone younger.

And so Diess went to VAG to manage VW Passenger Cars Division, Biermann went to Hyundai, Nitschke is retiring, Reithofer will be offer a position of BMW Group supervisory board chairman (which is a top non-executive position within BMW Group - current held by ex-CEO Milberg who is 71).

Fröhlich, who replaced Diess as BMW Group Chief of R&D is also turning 55 soon, so he's also close to 60. I would not be surprised he also leaves soon and is replaced with someone younger.

There's no other reason behind ... No conspiracy theory. No Armageddon approaching. It's a natural change of generations @ top positions in the company. BMW AG does it every decade, actually. In 2006 Reithofer replaced Panke who was 60 then. And in in May 2015 Krüger will replace Reithofer who will turn 59 then.

How fortunate for the rest of the world the Germans are are their own worst enemy.

[F30_M_Sport_Eurovan]

Sorry... it is in my nature. Please know that maybe only has one "e" -- at first I thought it was a typo but then it occurred again.

As far as this person moving forward, good for him. We need to switch up the talent pool to get new ideas and more competitive products. I could actually see myself in a sporty Hyundai one of these days. It might provide a more reliable ride -- although I've had little to fault my F30 328i M Sport. I do, indeed, love my car.