[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I've got so much to say that my keyboard literally doesn't have enough characters...

The part that you fail to understand is that anything and I mean anything can be outsourced, there may be minor legal and medical exceptions but as a whole, nearly everything can be outsourced for pennies on the dollar. You mention coding, which is arguably one of the easiest things to outsource that both China and India will gladly do for you fractions that we will... or perhaps the AI bots that are starting to code for themselves and a prediction for an over abundance of SW engineers will soon hit... or the fact that many corporate / economic leader says that College Education will soon have little value... It is up to the individual nations to incentivize their population to stay, do business with the country, increase their own manufacturing and be as independent as possible... this is what truly allows a nation to grow... the further we go up the former direction, the deeper trouble we get in... a European Union has basically allowed any individual in any member nation to go work in any nation no questions asked.... now what do you suppose this will do the poorer off nations?... sry, it's not an economic union... its an agreement that works to the favor of the wealthy

All nations benefit. The degree and the levels where the benefits varies. The poorest people of the poorer nations benefit immediately with higher paying manufacturing and labor jobs. Overall economic activity increases. Mobility also allowed less skilled labor to move freely where the demand is, lowering input costs at those locations.

Those are real tangible benefits to open boarders concept to open trade.

Again, there will be winners and losers. In fact NAFTA probably account for the loss or displacement of half a million manufacturing jobs in the US.

Should we feel bad? Sure, but we should be angry at the unsuccessful integration of those laborers back into the workforce doing things that is actually needed.

[TheHouseWon]

Morgan Stanley conference call (my favorite out the thousands of conference calls we were invited to): 855-272-3517

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

All nations benefit. The degree and the levels where the benefits varies. The poorest people of the poorer nations benefit immediately with higher paying manufacturing and labor jobs. Overall economic activity increases. Mobility also allowed less skilled labor to move freely where the demand is, lowering input costs at those locations.

Those are real tangible benefits to open boarders concept to open trade.

Whether we look at this macroeconomically or at an individual level...

What you mention above is one of the reasons, the UK decided to leave, it was being overcrowded by a large amount of migrants and all of their lower paying jobs were being completely taken over... to the point, where if you want from a certain nation, you may not get that job, thats not a joke, that was reality in many cases... but now the question is, what happens to those workers at home that can't do anything else or the home country where a massive % of the younger work force just left? There are no equilibriums in place for this situation... sooner or later this will cause a problem. I am a 100% capitalist, free market thinker, but with the Union, I think they over did it a bit... If France and Germany suddenly left the EU... would there really be a EU? No... every other nation, GDP wise is irrelevant completely...

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Whether we look at this macroeconomically or at an individual level...

What you mention above is one of the reasons, the UK decided to leave, it was being overcrowded by a large amount of migrants and all of their lower paying jobs were being completely taken over... to the point, where if you want from a certain nation, you may not get that job, thats not a joke, that was reality in many cases... but now the question is, what happens to those workers at home that can't do anything else or the home country where a massive % of the younger work force just left? There are no equilibriums in place for this situation... sooner or later this will cause a problem. I am a 100% capitalist, free market thinker, but with the Union, I think they over did it a bit... If France and Germany suddenly left the EU... would there really be a EU? No... every other nation, GDP wise is irrelevant completely...

But again, you just stated the benefits of open labor. Will British citizens want to scrub toilets for £7.20/hour? Probably not. So what's their rate? £15? There's going to be price increase almost across the board for effect workforce, but skilled and unskilled. But sure at £15, not every labor job will be filled...so it's not like everyone will simply step in and fill those jobs...

So on net, more jobs will be lost, the immigrants' jobs, and the price of services will increase. Consumption prices going up is great to a certain extent, but only if wage inflation also increases. What if the consumers of services decide to just buy less after price increases? That's no economic growth.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by TheHouseWon

Morgan Stanley conference call (my favorite out the thousands of conference calls we were invited to): 855-272-3517

dial in code?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

But again, you just stated the benefits of open labor. Will British citizens want to scrub toilets for £7.20/hour? Probably not. So what's their rate? £15? There's going to be price increase almost across the board for effect workforce, but skilled and unskilled. But sure at £15, not every labor job will be filled...so it's not like everyone will simply step in and fill those jobs...

No, the British Citizens will be forced to work for the 7,20 an hour, as people in the US are... this incentivizes / brings upon value to a college education and allows people to more clearly see upward mobility... and when its harder to leave the country, this system works...this is what we had in the US, many years ago... this is akin to every starbucks pourer asking for a minimum wage increase to $15 / hr in the US... yeah OK buddy, when entry level nurses in some areas make $19... There has to be strict differentiation between the better and worse paying jobs... that's the way the world has always worked and still should. This is helping to ruin America and upper education.

So on net, more jobs will be lost, the immigrants' jobs, and the price of services will increase. Consumption prices going up is great to a certain extent, but only if wage inflation also increases. What if the consumers of services decide to just buy less after price increases? That's no economic growth.

They will not grow, if the aforementioned above doesn't happen like u think. You say no economic growth which is akin to if the US didn't have a false easy credit system, that virtually no other nation on earth has... if everyone had to buy everything by saved up money, you're economic growth would be far lower in this nation as well... so in other words, its a Govt aid allowing the economy to grow albeit somewhat falsely just like easy low paying immigration... granted, I could argue for hours whether this is positive or negative.

[Teufel_Hunden]

England (GB) existed in various forms for a thousand years prior to joining the EU and it will exist in some form or another after the EU.

The world is not going to end, just look at the USSR.

[TheHouseWon]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

dial in code?

3615703 #

[TheHouseWon]

[mdriver2]

It was an unfortunate decision for the UK to leave the EU. Our London office has many key individuals from the continent who work and live in London because of their EU citizenship. They are now a bit uncertain of their future. If the UK holds this vote to the letter of the law, then these people have to return to their home countries.

[John 070]

today I think my JPM buy will pay off and be in the black...but I have some ways to go with C from Friday....

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Germany wants to give UK ample time to backtrack and for the UK political process to work itself out on what degree of exit, if anything at all, they will partake.

France wants UK to invoke the exit immediately and negotiate terms that disincentives future exits.

It's funny really, you would think France of all nations should understand and appreciate a retreat when they see one.

[Delta0311]

And the powers that be not want a united EU.. One army, one currency, one set of laws, and all powers coming from Brussels. This will end spectacularly.

[Fundguy1]

NAFTA is a debacle for the US. With Canada its no big deal for the US. I see Canada this, Canada that. Whatever. The big issue is Mexico. All the manufacturing jobs etc have left the US and gone there. There's a $50b trade imbalance in Mexico's favor.

As for Brexit, if it was a single currency, open trade, it would make more sense. But throw in the social stuff, immigration stuff, regulations like which box you need to put milk in, etc and it becomes a quagmire. Then throw in loss of sovereignty, unelected foreign officials making laws, and padding their personal accounts, it's a travesty.

I'm glad it happened. I hope other countries, france, italy, follow suit. It'll take 2 years to unravel the UK. With trade deals it'll really be a non event long term. There's no reason for any of the regulations. If a country wants to sell its goods in another country, they should have to meet the other countries regulations. As for immigration and being unpc, that's a load of horse dung. A country should have the right to say no to whoever it wants. If Germany and France want to swing their doors open to a group that hates us and doesn't assimilate, that's their problem. Why should Britain or any other country be forced to accept them too.

Overall this will be a long term positive for England and a short term pain due to worry warts.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

NAFTA is a debacle for the US. With Canada its no big deal for the US. I see Canada this, Canada that. Whatever. The big issue is Mexico. All the manufacturing jobs etc have left the US and gone there. There's a $50b trade imbalance in Mexico's favor.

As for Brexit, if it was a single currency, open trade, it would make more sense. But throw in the social stuff, immigration stuff, regulations like which box you need to put milk in, etc and it becomes a quagmire. Then throw in loss of sovereignty, unelected foreign officials making laws, and padding their personal accounts, it's a travesty.

I'm glad it happened. I hope other countries, france, italy, follow suit. It'll take 2 years to unravel the UK. With trade deals it'll really be a non event long term. There's no reason for any of the regulations. If a country wants to sell its goods in another country, they should have to meet the other countries regulations. As for immigration and being unpc, that's a load of horse dung. A country should have the right to say no to whoever it wants. If Germany and France want to swing their doors open to a group that hates us and doesn't assimilate, that's their problem. Why should Britain or any other country be forced to accept them too.

Overall this will be a long term positive for England and a short term pain due to worry warts.

Don't the two bolded statements contradict each other? Wouldn't the latter be even MORE of a quagmire than the former?

[Fundguy1]

Absolutely not. It's up to a manufacturer to meet a countries regulations in this case. If they want to sell their goods somewhere, they need to meet those regulations of the market in question. It's their option to do so. If they do, they increase sales. If they dont, they don't sell there. Like Europe putting US spec lights and bumpers on their cars so they can be sold here. Far better an option than having unelected foreign politicians force you to do something that can be extremely expensive to your business.

[radiofrequency]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I've got so much to say that my keyboard literally doesn't have enough characters...

The part that you fail to understand is that anything and I mean anything can be outsourced, there may be minor legal and medical exceptions but as a whole, nearly everything can be outsourced for pennies on the dollar. You mention coding, which is arguably one of the easiest things to outsource that both China and India will gladly do for you fractions that we will... or perhaps the AI bots that are starting to code for themselves and a prediction for an over abundance of SW engineers will soon hit... or the fact that many corporate / economic leader says that College Education will soon have little value... It is up to the individual nations to incentivize their population to stay, do business with the country, increase their own manufacturing and be as independent as possible... this is what truly allows a nation to grow... the further we go up the former direction, the deeper trouble we get in... a European Union has basically allowed any individual in any member nation to go work in any nation no questions asked.... now what do you suppose this will do the poorer off nations?... sry, it's not an economic union... its an agreement that works to the favor of the wealthy

This....and my 0.02c; disruption is a good thing, whether in business or politics. It's high time for folks to shed the PC and face reality, what the EU started as with good intentions is not what it is today. I purchase British products here in the USA, I won't stop doing so because of Brexit, if I want to buy a Jaguar car or a Truimph motorcycle I am going to go ahead an do it despite some overpaid, overweight unelected politican sitting in Brussels pontificating on how people in Europe should live and work.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

And the powers that be not want a united EU.. One army, one currency, one set of laws, and all powers coming from Brussels. This will end spectacularly.

I know I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm almost sure that's some lie that's being spread around.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Absolutely not. It's up to a manufacturer to meet a countries regulations in this case. If they want to sell their goods somewhere, they need to meet those regulations of the market in question. It's their option to do so. If they do, they increase sales. If they dont, they don't sell there. Like Europe putting US spec lights and bumpers on their cars so they can be sold here. Far better an option than having unelected foreign politicians force you to do something that can be extremely expensive to your business.

But now you have to tailor the car to met several different regulations instead of one. It'd be like car manufacturers having to meet 50 different safety regulations in order for their car to be sold in all 50 states in the US.

People in Rhode Island would probably be forced to ride on horse and buggy.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I know I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm almost sure that's some lie that's being spread around.

Might be but at this point I wouldn't put it past the bureaucrats to try and pull some shit.

[Fundguy1]

The reality is not only that. It's one world obama has been pushing that agenda since the beginning. American isn't exceptional. GIvins away the Internet and emissions regulatory authority to foreign regulators. Small steps but towards a worldwide global governance.

The flip side is this is radical Islam's goal as well but with very different ideas on how they want everyone to live.

[TheHouseWon]

We don't want manufacturing jobs that are currently in Mexico. Better to create silicone valley type jobs.