[GottWhat]

I am not disagreeing with you guys but the cost of labor is less expensive in southern US states than in the northern US states and in Canada. Up here, we would say moving plants down south would be considered going with the cheap labor.

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Banishment to politics and religion for this thread appears immanent

But that leaves you odd man out.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by bimmerlife208

For those in the US like me. Does Trump have the power in put this tax in place without congress? I think congress is not up for this tax (Republicans included) so the chances of this going through seems slim? Also let's say if it does go through can anybody answer how long would it take them to put into effect and how this will this effect the price of the BMW G30?

I may be wrong but I believe he can enact a 15% tariff for a short period (like 2-3 months).

[insanecoder]

Just a warning shot across the bow for NAFTA

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Sadly this thread is looking like its doomed to be banished to the politics and religion forum

Disagree. It's a direct BMW discussion. People can (respectfully) voice their opinions... Post that are inappropriate will be moderated ;-)

[BeEmVe]

Originally Posted by bimmerlife208

For those in the US like me. Does Trump have the power in put this tax in place without congress? I think congress is not up for this tax (Republicans included) so the chances of this going through seems slim? Also let's say if it does go through can anybody answer how long would it take them to put into effect and how this will this effect the price of the BMW G30?

In Drumpf's case he wants to unilaterally impose a tariff. Which in that case it depends. The POTUS does have some authority as given by Congress. For instance, the POTUS can impose tariffs on nations engaging in unfair trade practices with the US. However, finding such authority for the cases Drumpf has been blathering about will probably be difficult because of NAFTA.

FWIW, NAFTA took four years to be negotiated and then approved by Congress: http://www.cfr.org/trade/naftas-economic-impact/p15790. Further, parts took over a decade to be implemented.

Oh and remember what Drumpf does to Mexico would most likely also apply to Canada. That would hit the big three US automakers and many of his supporters.

[esoogsug]

Regardless of the tariffs and taxes-Buy German cars if you like German cars. The quality is unsurpassed. I am unsold on the cars that are built in the US or in Mexico but perhaps it is my ignorance on the matter. However having experienced the US built models vs the German I would say longevity is in favor of the German built cars. So tax or no tax, you will make up the shortfall in doing run.

[bimmerlife208]

Originally Posted by BeEmVe

In Drumpf's case he wants to unilaterally impose a tariff. Which in that case it depends. The POTUS does have some authority as given by Congress. For instance, the POTUS can impose tariffs on nations engaging in unfair trade practices with the US. However, finding such authority for the cases Drumpf has been blathering about will probably be difficult because of NAFTA.

FWIW, NAFTA took four years to be negotiated and then approved by Congress: http://www.cfr.org/trade/naftas-economic-impact/p15790. Further, parts took over a decade to be implemented.

Oh and remember what Drumpf does to Mexico would most likely also apply to Canada. That would hit the big three US automakers and many of his supporters.

If he can impose a tariff temporarily (3 months) and for a long term tariff, it requires congress approval, I am relieved. I am planning on buying a BMW this year and many more in the future. But paying state tax and then suggested tarrif would skyrocket the price of the vehicle, which will worry consumers.

[Animal Farm]

So much for the BMW Manufacturing plant in Greer SC...

All I have to say that you can't win them all - win some, you lose some.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by BeEmVe

Oh and remember what Drumpf does to Mexico would most likely also apply to Canada. That would hit the big three US automakers and many of his supporters.

Not just the big three but any of the auto manufacturers who build anywhere in North America. Parts are sourced all over and cross the borders as many as 7 times before the final assembled product. Whether that car was made in Tennessee, Michigan, Ontario, or Mexico ... it contains parts made all across North America. Of all Trump's silly fiscal policy proposals, this one will cause the most damage in terms of unemployment numbers and it will hit all three NAFTA partners but will cause the most inflationary pressure within the US.

[supra93]

BMW will stick to its plan of building a new $1 billion plant in Mexico, despite the threats coming from President-elect Donald Trump, who said that he’ll impose a 35 percent tariff on imported cars.

In an interview with German newspaper Bild, Donald Trump criticized German automakers like BMW, Mercedes and VW for not producing more cars in their U.S. factories.

"If you want to build cars in the world, then I wish you all the best. You can build cars for the United States, but for every car that comes to the USA, you will pay 35 percent tax," Trump said during the interview.

"I would tell BMW that if you are building a factory in Mexico and plan to sell cars to the USA, without a 35 percent tax, then you can forget that," Trump said.

The Bavarian carmaker though will follow its original plan and finish construction of the new plant in San Luis Potosi which is going to begin building up to 150,000 units of the next-generation 3-Series in 2019, reports AutoNews.

BMW said that production planning should follow the market; their South African plant will cease exporting 3-Series to the US in 2019 and start building the X3 SUV instead. "Simply put, we are installing 3-series capacity in a new plant to supply global markets. We will decide where those cars go depending on the international framework conditions applicable nearer start of production in 2019," Ian Robertson, BMW brand's board member for sales, told the publication.

Peter Schwarzenbauer, BMW’s member of the Board of Management also repeated to reporters that the company will stick to its plan and finish building the new facilities in Mexico.

BMW is the latest company in Trump’s list of carmakers he warns, following Toyota and Ford among others, with the latter cancelling its plans to build a new manufacturing facility in Mexico.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/01/bmw...ico-plant.html

[JohnnyCanuck]

Good for BMW for stating it so clearly and quickly and not kowtowing to Trump's nonsensical attempts at bullying.

[FogCityM3]

Not that long ago, all BMWs were made in Germany and relatively speaking the prices were comparable to other brands and German wages due to high unionization are (and were) quite high. BMW's profit margins and dollars have gone up a lot since then, but really to whose benefit? Do today's products really offer the same price/quality vs the competition back in the 1990s and early 2000s and did we as consumers really win? I don't exactly feel very sorry for BMW these days, as I feel they expanded market share and profitability at the cost of what the brand used to represent in terms of price/performance and overall value.

In short, I don't feel like low tariffs and shifting production globally led to better product/investment and while is good for profitability and shareholders, consumers didn't benefit all that much.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Not that long ago, all BMWs were made in Germany and relatively speaking the prices were comparable to other brands and German wages due to high unionization are (and were) quite high. BMW's profit margins and dollars have gone up a lot since then, but really to whose benefit? Do today's products really offer the same price/quality vs the competition back in the 1990s and early 2000s and did we as consumers really win? I don't exactly feel very sorry for BMW these days, as I feel they expanded market share and profitability at the cost of what the brand used to represent in terms of price/performance and overall value.

In short, I don't feel like low tariffs and shifting production globally led to better product/investment and while is good for profitability and shareholders, consumers didn't benefit all that much.

IMO the best BMW ever made quality wise was the E39 5 series.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Not just the big three but any of the auto manufacturers who build anywhere in North America. Parts are sourced all over and cross the borders as many as 7 times before the final assembled product. Whether that car was made in Tennessee, Michigan, Ontario, or Mexico ... it contains parts made all across North America. Of all Trump's silly fiscal policy proposals, this one will cause the most damage in terms of unemployment numbers and it will hit all three NAFTA partners but will cause the most inflationary pressure within the US.

Actually parts are made all over the world as there are just a few component suppliers such as Valeo, Delphi, Bosch... Most of these components are made in China...

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Actually parts are made all over the world as there are just a few component suppliers such as Valeo, Delphi, Bosch... Most of these components are made in China...

Top 5 in order: Bosch, Magna, Continental, Denso, and Aisin Sieki. To use Magna as an example: Canada (7 manufacturing/assembly facilities), US (13), Mexico (7); Brazil (5); Europe (18); and Asia (11). A completely global supplier with 27 manufacturing/assembly facilities within the NAFTA zone. The point is that those parts and pieces will cross both border many times during the manufacturing cycle of any North American made vehicle.

Trump's proposed 35% tax on final assembly location is moronic and nonsensical and will significantly damage an industry that employs thousands of Americans.

[supra93]

President-elect Donald Trump likes to be unpredictable. During the election, he used the phrase in reference to foreign policy and dealing with terrorism. But he's using the same tactic with the automotive industry, making broad statements that send manufacturers into emergency-response mode.

The latest salvo comes from an interview with Germany's Bild, where Trump threatened a 35-percent import tax on German manufacturers. (Reuters covers the highlights in English here.) "If you want to build cars in the world, then I wish you all the best. You can build cars for the United States, but for every car that comes to the USA, you will pay 35 percent tax," Trump said.

Trump's comments seem to be directed at manufacturing in Mexico, although it's unclear if the comments refer to any import from a German automaker or just those from south of the border. BMW is building a $1-billion plant in San Luis Potosí, Mexico, where it plans to assemble the 3 Series. Mercedes-Benz is joining up with Nissan to build a new facility in Aquascalientes near the Japanese company's existing factory. And Volkswagen recently expanded its massive footprint in Puebla to build the new Tiguan as well as a separate factory for the Audi Q5.

Reuters states that Trump thinks there's not enough reciprocity between Germany and the United States, as Germans don't buy Chevrolets at the rate American buy Mercedes-Benz Vehicles. At present, only the Corvette and Camaro are sold in Germany. The German subsidiary of Chevrolet parent General Motors, Opel, is the fifth-ranked automaker in the European Union, ahead of FCA but trailing Ford, VW, and both French auto companies.

In response to Trump, Germany's deputy chancellor (Chancellor Angela Merkel is shown above) and minister for the economy, Sigmar Gabriel, did not mince words. As reported by The Guardian, Gabriel said "The US car industry would have a bad awakening if all the supply parts that aren't being built in the US were to suddenly come with a 35% tariff. I believe it would make the US car industry weaker, worse and above all more expensive." Asked what it would take for Germans to buy more American vehicles, he said "Build better cars."

Gabiel also noted that BMW's largest plant is already in the US. The Spartanburg, SC plant exports about 65 percent of its 400,000-unit annual production to foreign markets and directly employs 8,000 workers according to BMW. The Mercedes-Benz factory in Tuscaloosa, AL builds more than 300,000 SUVs and exports $1 Billion in finished product. And Volkswagen's Chattanooga, TN plant which builds the Passat and upcoming Atlas SUV employs 3,500.

How the US manufacturing presence of German Automakers, or how supplier factories, figure into Trump's rhetoric remains to be seen. But with the presidential inauguration only days away, and Trump already moving on his campaign promise to overhaul Obamacare, it's likely we'll find out soon how this talk translates into actual policy.

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/01/16/t...ers-factories/

[SportySpice]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Its not sniping at Germany

Its sniping at any manufacturer looking to move production from the US to a third world country and THEN expecting to import those vehicles without some sort of tarrif/etc

Just wondering: what production is BMW moving from the US to Mexico? I haven't read anything stating that... Thanks in advance.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by SportySpice

Just wondering: what production is BMW moving from the US to Mexico? I haven't read anything stating that... Thanks in advance.

Because they're not. They are building a new 3-series plant in Mexico to augment current facilities in Germany and China. Trump is now threatening to tax cars coming from Mexico because he believes that they should be building plants in the US.

What no one seems to understand in these threads is how the auto manufacturing sector in North America actually works. There is no such thing as a Mexican built, or Canadian made, or US manufactured car. The final assembly plant will, obviously, be in one of those three countries, but the supply chain is completely integrated across all three countries. Since 1965 there has been tariff free trade in the manufacturing of cars between Canada and the US. That was extended to Mexico with NAFTA, but there have long been Canadian made engines in US assembled cars and US made transmissions in cars "built" in Oshawa. What has changed is that the number of third party suppliers with equally integrated trilateral supply chains. A car allegedly built in Mexico could very well contain 35% American made components and 25% Canadian sourced assemblies. Those various components will themselves be multilateral in their manufacture and assembly. This whole notion of placing import taxes based on the final assembly location of a automobile within the NAFTA zone is somewhere between nonsensical and moronic. The net effect will actually be to cost all three countries auto manufacturing jobs and severely disrupt the industry. After bailing out the Big Three, Canadian and American governments are going to watch them lurch back into crisis because of stupid trade policy.

Hopefully the slim Senate majority and the presence of some Republicans who understand trade will serve to fetter the sheer stupidity of what Trump is proposing.

[SportySpice]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Because they're not. They are building a new 3-series plant in Mexico to augment current facilities in Germany and China. Trump is now threatening to tax cars coming from Mexico because he believes that they should be building plants in the US.

What no one seems to understand in these threads is how the auto manufacturing sector in North America actually works. There is no such thing as a Mexican built, or Canadian made, or US manufactured car. The final assembly plant will, obviously, be in one of those three countries, but the supply chain is completely integrated across all three countries. Since 1965 there has been tariff free trade in the manufacturing of cars between Canada and the US. That was extended to Mexico with NAFTA, but there have long been Canadian made engines in US assembled cars and US made transmissions in cars "built" in Oshawa. What has changed is that the number of third party suppliers with equally integrated trilateral supply chains. A car allegedly built in Mexico could very well contain 35% American made components and 25% Canadian sourced assemblies. Those various components will themselves be multilateral in their manufacture and assembly. This whole notion of placing import taxes based on the final assembly location of a automobile within the NAFTA zone is somewhere between nonsensical and moronic. The net effect will actually be to cost all three countries auto manufacturing jobs and severely disrupt the industry. After bailing out the Big Three, Canadian and American governments are going to watch them lurch back into crisis because of stupid trade policy.

Hopefully the slim Senate majority and the presence of some Republicans who understand trade will serve to fetter the sheer stupidity of what Trump is proposing.

I know BMW is not moving any manufacturing from the US to Mexico but others seemed pretty adamant that this justified Trump's comments re: BMW. I've been on these boards only a short time, but I've been around long enough to know that threads can go from 0 to 100 faster than a modded M3. Hence, I thought it made sense to get some clarification on the point rather than call out a stranger for being un / misinformed. That's it.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by SportySpice

Just wondering: what production is BMW moving from the US to Mexico? I haven't read anything stating that... Thanks in advance.

You're correct in that there had been no official statement of intent wrt BMW and whether or not their ORIGINAL intent was to move/shift/other any portion of US production

I also wouldnt have expected BMW to state publicly its intentions no matter what they were

Trump stated clearly that any Mexican production BMW's would face an import penalty if brought into the US

Its pretty obvious that it was meant to be a shot across the bow

Post trump statement they immediately said that the mexico plant was to augment global 3 series productivity and implied that none of them were bound for the US

Time will tell and we'll see what happens before too long

I sure as heck would never purchase a mexican or chinese made BMW.....

[jackelliott]

I would never buy a Mexican BMW. The masses will have no idea for 5 to 10 years they're buying Mexican versions. But that will catch up to BMW. I can see my future self making fun of people for driving Mexican BMWs. "Hey you know that was made in Mexico right...?" And eventually the BMW brand will be diluted into just another car. Instead of German performance. For some reason the Germans don't understand that Americans desire "made in Germany" ... Not simply "designed in Germany".

As an example I've been to a certain gun manufacturers US and German production facilities. They theoretically produce the same guns but the German variants are slightlyyyyyy more accurate - though no one there would ever reveal it publicly. Different industry but parallels remain to German vs US production. Can't even imagine Mexican.