[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I see the GT in the same light as the X4. They are both filling the gap between SUV/CUV and sedan/coupes. The X4 is a SUV/CUV with a touch of sedan/coupe. The GT is a sedan/coupe with a touch of SUV/CUV.

Both are hideous

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

Both are hideous

Well that is about to change.

Imagine that.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by c63er

If this is true, then this is much much needed and a very good move. Looking forward to this.

The model 3 has the potential to really devastate the German small sports sedan arena and they need a proper electric answer.

There is no question how a conpany with little experience changed the entire landscape with the model s. They have not only changed the landscape but picked up a huge enthusiast (a different type of course) following. If they repeated this in the 3 series segment it's a game changer.

Many people are talking about buying a model 3 or aspiring to one. No one is talking like that about a 3 series anymore. Bmw has to get this right and will need the enthusiasts at their back as well. If they do get it right bmws future is assured for a long time.

well said. they have been asleep at the electric switch. the i8 was a good step but too stratospheric and the i3 fugly.

if the model3, electric jag and others make headway bmw and a lot of other marques will be caught flat footed.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Meanwhile...

There is such an over abundance of oil in the world marketplace OPEC is begging for less production to help raise prices...

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/11/inve...il-u-s-supply/


Many climate scientists are now predicting global cooling...

http://notrickszone.com/2017/04/10/a....t2Eulwd0.dpbs


US leadership is moving away from subsidizing "anti global warming" efforts...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...der/index.html

Doesn't seem forward looking to me.

forget global warming. people will stop buying gas when the alternative (electric for now) is cheaper. nothing more to to it.

[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by lukeiswright

BMW fan base: "We want more small, fun to drive cars like the 1M and M2!"
BMW: "Fully electric 4 series GT you say? Right on it!"

Tell that to the government who keeps regulating the hell out of these companies and the consumers who seem to only want to buy various versions of utility vehicles. There is a reason there are very few options that you speak of, people don't buy them in volume and the government is regulating them out of existence in any kind of volume that makes financial sense. We are fortunate to have the options we have but I think we have maybe 5 more years of cars with this level of performance before they get totally regulated out of existence so buy what you want soon.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by mundo74

well said. they have been asleep at the electric switch. the i8 was a good step but too stratospheric and the i3 fugly.

if the model3, electric jag and others make headway bmw and a lot of other marques will be caught flat footed.

That is going happen and it will have the complete domino affect.

[Crashnbrn5]

I love my GT and I know 100% it can look better. So I'm excited for the upcoming new version. It will definitely be a looker.

I feel bad for people that don't understand the GT. It's such an amazing practical car with agility and power.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Crashnbrn5

I love my GT and I know 100% it can look better. So I'm excited for the upcoming new version. It will definitely be a looker.

I feel bad for people that don't understand the GT. It's such an amazing practical car with agility and power.

Sorry bro your car is and always will be ugly and a prime example of what's wrong with BMW today.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by mundo74

forget global warming. people will stop buying gas when the alternative (electric for now) is cheaper. nothing more to to it.

Wouldn't that theory already have made Premium-grade fuel extinct?

There really is a LOT more to it. First- Refueling EVs is going to have to be as quick and convenient as gasoline or at least diesel. Too many people live in condos, apartments, or use on-street parking where they can't charge while they sleep.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Sorry bro your car is and always will be ugly and a prime example of what's wrong with BMW today.

Not even close. Lol

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Oh BMW..oh BMW. They are trying to merge the GT with the GC in order to satisfy both buyers with one car. I hope im wrong.

People that buy GC gives up usability for style. Take the 5 series and the 6 GC, the 6 GC looks stunning next to the 5er, even the G30. We've seen mules of this "6GT"..its just a 5 series with different C pillar and maybe tail lights. Lame. The G30 already pales in sexyness next to the current 6GC. Completely other league..i hope they aren't thinking they can sell that to current 6GC owners.

It blows my mind. The 4 and 6 GC, as stated multiple times, outsell both cabrio and coupes together. Its beyond me why would they f* this up, by turning both into a "frankestein" GT/GC.

There are people who cleary wants a stylish 4-door. There are people who wants the GT. End.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Wouldn't that theory already have made Premium-grade fuel extinct?

There really is a LOT more to it. First- Refueling EVs is going to have to be as quick and convenient as gasoline or at least diesel. Too many people live in condos, apartments, or use on-street parking where they can't charge while they sleep.

if/when EVs or whatever else has a lower cost of ownership than combustion engines then people will always vote in their economic interests. its not hard to also imagine that owners of apartment complexes will want to retain their tenants and install a plug at every parking spot if the wind is blowing in that direction. so will cities adding a plug to their parking meters.

the holdouts are going to be guys like us wanting engines. most people will not care.

i remember when cell phones were so expensive only the rich had it. now people in poor countries all have it and the telecom infrastructure had to change from copper to cell towers along the way.

[ron_jeremy]

Intresting, BMW needs to make more EV, as the ICE is going away in 10-15 years time.
As for the i brand, i'm not sure if that is a brand you want to keep going?
But at the end of the day, i only care about the result, not if it's e-drive, BMW i or BMW itself, as long as there is a sporty and exciting, but still full package EV from BMW. Coming fra a F25 and a i01, i'd love a new EV from BMW, if there is coming a new X3 EV, fine, but it need to perform as a SUV, trailerhitch and so on.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

Intresting, BMW needs to make more EV, as the ICE is going away in 10-15 years time.

Aggressive timeline you've chosen there. Bear in mind that the world is not changing quite as quickly outside of Scandinavia. I would suggest we have at least double that amount of time before the ICE is gone. Heck, I wouldn't even bet that PHEV will outnumber ICE-only in new vehicle sales a mere decade from now. And pure electric vehicles sales will have an even longer road yet. There will definitely be a *lot* more PHEV options in fifteen years though, yes, including many SUVs which are largely missing from today's market.

As for the i brand, i'm not sure if that is a brand you want to keep going?

BMW i will evolve into their autonomous-first brand. The main BMW brand can then continue to focus on the driver and driving experience first. At least for another few decades. We'll see how long these two diametrically opposed approaches will live beyond that.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

Oh BMW..oh BMW. They are trying to merge the GT with the GC in order to satisfy both buyers with one car. I hope im wrong.

People that buy GC gives up usability for style. Take the 5 series and the 6 GC, the 6 GC looks stunning next to the 5er, even the G30. We've seen mules of this "6GT"..its just a 5 series with different C pillar and maybe tail lights. Lame. The G30 already pales in sexyness next to the current 6GC. Completely other league..i hope they aren't thinking they can sell that to current 6GC owners.

It blows my mind. The 4 and 6 GC, as stated multiple times, outsell both cabrio and coupes together. Its beyond me why would they f* this up, by turning both into a "frankestein" GT/GC.

There are people who cleary wants a stylish 4-door. There are people who wants the GT. End.

GTC

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Aggressive timeline you've chosen there. Bear in mind that the world is not changing quite as quickly outside of Scandinavia. I would suggest we have at least double that amount of time before the ICE is gone. Heck, I wouldn't even bet that PHEV will outnumber ICE-only in new vehicle sales a mere decade from now. And pure electric vehicles sales will have an even longer road yet. There will definitely be a *lot* more PHEV options in fifteen years though, yes, including many SUVs which are largely missing from today's market.

BMW i will evolve into their autonomous-first brand. The main BMW brand can then continue to focus on the driver and driving experience first. At least for another few decades. We'll see how long these two diametrically opposed approaches will live beyond that.

Aggressive timeframe, yes. And it's not even a Scandinavian thing the EV, it's limited to Norway, last year 17% of all new cars sold was an EV up here. Germany and the dutch are contemplating on prohibited ICE vehicles from 2030, it's just 12 years, alot will happen until then. And after you've driven and owned a EV, only 3-4% are choosing to go back to ICE. the latter is just so inefficient.

[DanITman]

When will this forum realize that they are the minority of BMW customers and not the majority? I can't tell you how many times I've read: "This is going to kill BMW" or "This is exactly what is wrong with BMW". Then I see stories about how BMW is setting records and having their biggest quarters ever. The e series owners hate the f series. The f series owners hate the g series. All this complaining and time goes on and BMW does better and better. The Telsa is a successful hatchback and BMW is looking to mimic those results.

Not everyone wants an M series, two-door, gas guzzling, wheel squealing, rear wheel drive drifting car.

Yes, I drive a 3GT. Yes, I love it.

[Efthreeoh]

The BMW 2-Series Coupe MSRP @ $33,150...

And BMW is going to design and build an all-electric 3 series for $35,950. Okay

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

Aggressive timeframe, yes. And it's not even a Scandinavian thing the EV, it's limited to Norway, last year 17% of all new cars sold was an EV up here. Germany and the dutch are contemplating on prohibited ICE vehicles from 2030, it's just 12 years, alot will happen until then.

Sure, but its still too aggressive. And the talk of legislation is largely political posturing. If it does go through in some form, dates will surely be pushed back.

And after you've driven and owned a EV, only 3-4% are choosing to go back to ICE. the latter is just so inefficient.

But you have to get them into an ICE in the first place. Just for starters, tell the one-million-plus people in the US who buy a pickup truck every year that they need to start thinking about getting into the vaporware electric version that on one has even begun to design. Large SUV buyers, too. Other segments won't be covered any time soon either. And this doesn't even touch the transportation/shipping industry yet. It's too big and simply won't and can't happen inside 15 years.

Again, no doubt that in a decade there will be a lot more electric choices, and the PHEV drivetrain will have proliferated into all of the segments I mention above. But the ICE will be absolutely nowhere near dead. Not even close.

[ShocknAwe]

BMW:

Makes a new line of 2 door coupe to differentiate it from the 4 door sedan. Then makes a subtype of that 2 door coupe with 4 doors. And another version with a sedan roofline and taller boot with 4 doors. Then makes a version of the original 4 door sedan with a taller boot.

LOL

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Sure, but its still too aggressive. And the talk of legislation is largely political posturing. If it does go through in some form, dates will surely be pushed back.



But you have to get them into an ICE in the first place. Just for starters, tell the one-million-plus people in the US who buy a pickup truck every year that they need to start thinking about getting into the vaporware electric version that on one has even begun to design. Large SUV buyers, too. Other segments won't be covered any time soon either. And this doesn't even touch the transportation/shipping industry yet. It's too big and simply won't and can't happen inside 15 years.

Again, no doubt that in a decade there will be a lot more electric choices, and the PHEV drivetrain will have proliferated into all of the segments I mention above. But the ICE will be absolutely nowhere near dead. Not even close.

This is exactly correct. Not flaming... It's 1M+ just for the Ford F-series alone. Throw in the other 5 brands... and it's on the order of 4 million plus. As long as aviation fuel is produced, so will gasoline and diesel.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Sure, but its still too aggressive. And the talk of legislation is largely political posturing. If it does go through in some form, dates will surely be pushed back.



But you have to get them into an ICE in the first place. Just for starters, tell the one-million-plus people in the US who buy a pickup truck every year that they need to start thinking about getting into the vaporware electric version that on one has even begun to design. Large SUV buyers, too. Other segments won't be covered any time soon either. And this doesn't even touch the transportation/shipping industry yet. It's too big and simply won't and can't happen inside 15 years.

Again, no doubt that in a decade there will be a lot more electric choices, and the PHEV drivetrain will have proliferated into all of the segments I mention above. But the ICE will be absolutely nowhere near dead. Not even close.

This right here, is a very intresting conversation, you with the background from the US with musclecars and huge pickups and SUV, me from Norway. Some regions are "ahead" in some departments, because of politics or nature itself.
In Norway, as i said, EV's are getting close to 20% of the entire car market. You mentioned some niches that's obviously are not getting any solutions in years yet. But as for boats and ferry's - this industry are seeing huge shift from dieselpowered solutions to hybrid or fully electric powered boats.
Some are also used with Hydrogen and fuelcells, depends on the timeframe on shore/land which solution that's beeing prefereed. The shipyards are seeing a 90% increase in these kind of new ferry's, also trains are beeing transfeered from diesel to hybrids as well. Not to mention, the Tesla truck. With this, i'm not saying every transport will be electric or hybrid within a few years timeframe, surely there will be ICE solutions also, but there will be few and far between. The diesel engine are beeing abandoned because of it's NOX problems, Volvo and other brands are not going to delvelop their diesel anymore, it's to expensive. But all in all, let's say that in 2025, it will be hard to buy a ICE, and another 5 years i belive they will be few and far between.