[cbertels]

Originally Posted by c63er

What redeeming qualities does this company have left?

In a span of only 10 years they have gone from being the poster child of how a car company should be, to this shady nonsense.

To me the moment bmws online reps felt free enough to deal in online racism I knew the company had become rotten to the core.

Collusion is a given. We shall see if regulators in Europe have teeth like many of our regulators have historically had. If so, expect to see more dirt in the future.

I for one am hoping for the worst possible outcome. It's the only way to force out all these rotten suits that fill up the entire corporate structure. Anyone with any principle has long left. The only hope is a top down fresh start. If they continue as they are, bmws will all be rebadged corollas at some point.

Classic

[MSCD]

Originally Posted by Matski

They haven't said, "we'll help". They said "Now you have us by the balls, in order to avoid paying any fines for our potentially criminal activities, we'll snitch on the opposition."

... commendable. NOT.

Yeah, agreed!

[scoobysaurus]

Benz must be really confident that BMW doesn't have any dirt on them. This could get ugly if BMW retorts by snitching and stooping to Benz and VW's level.

[firedown31]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Take this, the airbag issue, VWs cheating, and now the Japanese steel issue, and it's become clear that the auto industry itself could use a refresh.

New BMWs might be uninspiring to drive, but the quality is there, and they sell more than ever before. In the end, that's all they are concerned about. Pretty sure Hans and Frans are not pouring over the latest issue of Car and Driver wondering why their 5 Series finishes last in tests.

Except they aren't selling more than ever before. 2016 sales were down over 2015 and so far 2017 is down over 2016. Sales have not been increasing for BMW for a long time. So all the changes they have tried to make don't seem to be working, unless they are now making a higher profit per car.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by firedown31

Except they aren't selling more than ever before. 2016 sales were down over 2015 and so far 2017 is down over 2016. Sales have not been increasing for BMW for a long time. So all the changes they have tried to make don't seem to be working, unless they are now making a higher profit per car.

You do know, the world is bigger than just America..? Don't you?

[Invictus]

Daimler betrayed us.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by firedown31

Except they aren't selling more than ever before. 2016 sales were down over 2015 and so far 2017 is down over 2016. Sales have not been increasing for BMW for a long time. So all the changes they have tried to make don't seem to be working, unless they are now making a higher profit per car.

I disagree. BMW sales are much higher now than when building cars like the e46 or whatever else is considered a true BMW.

[Agni]

Originally Posted by Matski

Fact check. Last year Steyr made 2.3% of BMW Group's total production... Even if you included VDL and the partner plants in India, Egypt, Malaysia, Russia and indonesia, BMW still manufacture 92.6% of their automobiles.

So yeah... "Nowadays Magna Steyr does all the car manufacturing"....

I was taking about the trends and where the industry is going. Not where we are now.

[crystalline]

Originally Posted by 666MorDeath

Maybe American car makers need to conspire since we don't have one single decent manufacture

Does this mean those Chevy commercials haven't convinced you American cars are amazing??

[M3 Number 86]

I have a 535d can I just get out 50% too? Lol

I have to honestly admit the latest gen bmws I'm not really into but the whole segment has gotten worse (m cars still on top in their segment so all cars have gotten worse that way).

My main thing is more of a why can't bmw make an r8 or GT competitor? I was shocked that the new 8 series was gonna be an even bigger 6 series which they've gotten rid of bc it doesn't sell. So why make a bigger one? It could've been a nice Porsche competitor, a true sports car but instead it's an s class coupe competitor that nobody buys.

My favorite obtainable cars right now are still gt3 (second) but for a few months now it has been the AMG GTR. That thing is a fucking beast.

Sorry for the run on sentences with lack of grammar and coherence. Lol

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by crystalline

Does this mean those Chevy commercials haven't convinced you American cars are amazing??

99% of American cars suck but gt350, Ford GT, camaro zl1 1le (or whatever it's called lol) are pretty nice. Only thing is I'd have to do a BMW interior swap LOL

[conradb]

"Anti-competitive practices" are bullshit claims that authoritarians want to use for more control of markets and the economy. These companies face competition all over, and alternatives exist and can be introduced as well. Governments only create barriers to entry for competition, often through rent-seeking by the big corporations themselves to keep new competitors at bay, or out of the market entirely.

Anyone saying they're doing something to make things "fair" is someone you should be extremely skeptical of.

[FinalRenegade]

Originally Posted by Invictus

Daimler betrayed us.

If you can't beat em, snitch on them!

[Cuz5150]

Originally Posted by Spritztour

The EU officials in Brussels have nothing better to do. How many croissant and espressos can you drink doing nothing the entire work week before you pick on something. Let them investigate and drive some F80s around while investigating.

^^this^^
These non elected scums sitting in Brussels, these Kings and Queens can not
hold company for ransom. All they want is find something wrong then fine billions of $$$$'s to finance their cause in Brussels.
Unbelievable what is happening in Europe.
They have no right to investigate, unless the German government sees fit.
These Brussels officials can go F*** themselves.

[Golfgeek]

Originally Posted by Matski

You do know, the world is bigger than just America..? Don't you?

Wait!! What??

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by IB M

Yea Merc is jealous that they can't produce anything that appeals to those under 60 years old.

That made me laugh because I just traded my BMW i8 for an AMG GT.

And I'm 72.

[IB M]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

That made me laugh because I just traded my BMW i8 for an AMG GT.

And I'm 72.

That's awesome. Yours sir is a badass car. May we all be like you at 72. Happy motoring.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Have you ever looked at a recent thread of a concept car launch?

X7?
The Yellow CSL?

There was plenty of 'harsh' critique from pure BMW fanboys right there. Just the way life is, yes we're all huge BMW fans here ( I hope) but that does not blinker us.

With regards to an investigation into collusion AKA price fixing. I can't imagine it's happened without just cause on a whim for it to be taken to this level.

So as a 15 year plus multiple BMW car owner ... would I not have the right to be a bit pissed if there is a whim of truth to this being investigated right now?

I don’t know if you have read my posts in the past but I do comment and criticize things which I believe are wrong but my point is so many others just seem to be there to be just plain negative.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I'm glad that even the fanboys will not tolerate illegal and unethical behavior. IT is refreshing to see that even fanboys have their limits of tolerance. I agree that if the suits performed illegal activities, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Has the investigation reached any conclusion yet? Was it proven to be a conspiracy at the highest level or the acts of a few who took the wrong turn? My concern is the pure hate that some have expressed at a stage that nothing really has been exposed.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by VT-man

Agreed 100%
It's funny, right?

True but it can be terrifying to see if you are on the receiving end of things.

[JibSTir13]

So Daimler may have also colluded, and then snitched to avoid getting in trouble?

[instalher]

hummmm I am glad shell, bp, exxon, petro Canada, don't ever due this sort of thing with the price of oil.. That's would be unethical...