[Flying Ace]

BMW already has a track machine. It's the M4GTS. Put your money where your mouth is and send some money there for one.

[Mingwan]

iPhone 9 series. I mean bmw 9 series.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by cbertels

And yet still no true 911 or AMG GT competitor...

This is what BMW needs...

[///M Power-Belgium]

9er Concept .

[aftercompletion]

"BMW just needs to make a true 911 competitor!" reminds me a lot of hearing "<car manufacturer> just needs to make a true 3-Series competitor!" for the last 20 years.

Shit is a lot easier said than done. Otherwise we'd all be driving Infinitis and Kia Stingers.

[cbertels]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

BMW already has a track machine. It's the M4GTS. Put your money where your mouth is and send some money there for one.

I've seen the reviews. That thing is awful.

[10"]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

"BMW just needs to make a true 911 competitor!" reminds me a lot of hearing "<car manufacturer> just needs to make a true 3-Series competitor!" for the last 20 years.

Shit is a lot easier said than done. Otherwise we'd all be driving Infinitis and Kia Stingers.

To be fair the current 3-series is pretty miserable. The Alfa Giulia kills it in terms of driving experience....as do many other cars including the Kia Stinger.

BMW doesn't need to compete with the 911. It cannot compete with it and never has...

[DML]

Can't wait to get a gander at the new 10 series, car/boat combo should be something else

[Germanauto]

They should focus on getting the 7er right first. Current generation has impressive tech and a high quality interior, but it comes up very short in the design dept. inside and out which is why it's not selling. It's amazing how BMW nails luxury when it comes to their Roller sedans but the current and last 7ers were duds.

I still remember when the first photos of a light blue example appeared, what a sh*t show. Savage comments in that thread.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by 10"

To be fair the current 3-series is pretty miserable. The Alfa Giulia kills it in terms of driving experience....as do many other cars including the Kia Stinger.

BMW doesn't need to compete with the 911. It cannot compete with it and never has...

The Kia stinger chassis was dialed in by an ex BMW M division guy Albert Biermann.

3-series is way more refined then Alfa or Kia.

[10"]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

The Kia stinger chassis was dialed in by an ex BMW M division guy Albert Biermann.

3-series is way more refined then Alfa or Kia.

have you driven the Alfa or Kia? Both are waaaaaay more interesting and enjoyable than any current 3-series.

Agreed about the Biermann connection. He's doing some great stuff for them. If they sold the N20 5-door in the US i'd buy one as a 2nd 'family' car in a heartbeat. I can't get myself to buy a stupid looking Veloster N though! lol

[Flying Ace]

Plus I'd safely say the AMG GT doesn't really eat away at C class AMG sales. No C63 AMG has been a legitimate track day car other than the Black Series. So MB wasn't in a position of strength to begin with with the sports saloon market. They NEEDED a 911 fighter to get buyers in the door. Remember, the MB buyers averaged out to be the older than buyers of all 3 luxury brands. (i want to say close to 50s was the average buyers' age).

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

"BMW just needs to make a true 911 competitor!" reminds me a lot of hearing "<car manufacturer> just needs to make a true 3-Series competitor!" for the last 20 years.

Shit is a lot easier said than done. Otherwise we'd all be driving Infinitis and Kia Stingers.

exactly! Everyone else is just an imitator to the best sports sedan series ever made, period.

No one benchmarks to a fucking IS350 or a C300 or a A4. EVERYONE benchmarks to the 3-series and the M3.

[CP911]

No 911 competitor you say?



Y'all need to quiet down. What is a 911 competitor, exactly? AFAIK, the only thing there is to compete with the 911 is another 911. Are the Merc AMG GT and Corvette not 911 fighters? But how could they be if they have much longer wheelbases and engines in the front? Hell, my m240i is as close on paper as you can get to a 911 Carrera these days. 2+2 coupe, RWD, available MT, 1 trunk, 3.0L turbocharged 6-cylinder, 0-60 time of 4.4 seconds. Still, Captain Obvious would tell you it's not a 911 and never will be.

What do you guys really want? A car from BMW that will lap the Nordschleife quicker than a 911 GT2 RS? Keep smoking the crack pipe!

[CP911]

As for why a 9-series should exist:

[b.oom]

Originally Posted by mose121

Having worked for both BMW and now Porsche, I can tell you that the i8 is definitely not considered to be a direct competitor to the 911 by either brand. Drive them both and that is very apparent.

The i8 is popping a 911 out of its rear. For me, that's a clear statement for what these cars are up to.
And I won't ask you what was/is your position at these brands, but I'm almost sure that's not something related to marketing or PR.

[X Driver]

I'm a BMW enthusiast since I was a child, but I think they should have built the sh*t they sell right now better rather than build more crappy cars nobody wants.

[farns2345]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

you guys realize what you're asking for right? You're asking for BMW to make a car that cannibalizes its halo performance car the M3.

Ask yourself, if they made a version of the AMG GT, would you still buy an M3?....

Also, if it was so damn easy to make a 911 competitor, then everyone would have done it and put Porsche out of business. The reality is, most every other major manufacturers are in the business of making people movers not sports cars. Even Porsche couldn't stay with making sports cars. The Cayenne sales is what is funding all their car development.

While I don't dispute the difficulty in other manufacturers making a car to compete with the 911, I will say that the price gap between an m3 and a true 911 competitor would be large enough to keep a lot of people in the m3. Not to mention the added convenience of 4doors.

[10"]

Originally Posted by CP911

No 911 competitor you say?

[IMG]http://boxscorenews.com/clients/boxs...M-10025841.jpg[/IMG]

Y'all need to quiet down. What is a 911 competitor, exactly? AFAIK, the only thing there is to compete with the 911 is another 911. Are the Merc AMG GT and Corvette not 911 fighters? But how could they be if they have much longer wheelbases and engines in the front? Hell, my m240i is as close on paper as you can get to a 911 Carrera these days. 2+2 coupe, RWD, available MT, 1 trunk, 3.0L turbocharged 6-cylinder, 0-60 time of 4.4 seconds. Still, Captain Obvious would tell you it's not a 911 and never will be.

What do you guys really want? A car from BMW that will lap the Nordschleife quicker than a 911 GT2 RS? Keep smoking the crack pipe!

The M2 and M3 can be thought of as relatively affordable, practical alternatives to Porsche ownership. They will never truly be as they aren't mid or rear engined but for a lot of people they serve as a better option for daily use. The non-M cars are not nearly focused enough in terms of details or vision...

I think some of you who haven't driven a 911 or have had limited seat time mythologize the 911 a bit too much. They're good cars but nowhere near the untouchable status they get on forums. I've driven many now of different generations and like them as cars but aren't even the top 10 list of cars I'd like to own. To me they are lacking a sense of humor and lacking character in that old school sort of "fun over all else" way...

The bottom line is BMW doesn't care about competing with the 911. Most car companies don't. Occasionally you'll find cars like the Alfa 4C, Alpine A110, or Lotus have a go at the Cayman or maybe lower end 911s but they're done in a low-volume sort of way...

[Chihuahua]

noin noin noin noin noin

[gnx]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The implementation of a Luxury BMW sedan more exclusive and above The 7 has always been an idea at BMW.
Back in the late eighties BMW developed Project GoldFish - An idea under then Research & Development chief to "one-up" Mercedes-Benz on rumours that the V12 W140 was coming as a response to the BMW 750iL V12.

He envisioned a luxury sedan above BMW 7er, The 9er. Topped by the V16 which would be the true symbol of Reitzles flamboyance and engineering skill.
However it's development was halted when the late eighties Financial crisis happened which also killed the BMW 8er Cabrio, BMW M8 and a re-engineered 8er Coupe which was to extensively overhauled to include the M8s B Pillar to add more structural rigidity. It's main failing.

Now we have The 8. And The X7 to spearhead BMWs new luxury order as well as a forthcoming Update of The 7. Which appears to be extensively updated to feature elements from the VFL concept car such as Slimmer headlights and a extremely large kidney grille that dominates its front end.

The VFL after its debut in Beijing was taken across the world and shown to particular customers in order to gage a response to see whether a BMW would fit within this market.
Potential customers did add that they would like a BMW that not offers exclusivity but also still be a large sedan that they could drive themselves as well as being chauffeured in the rear in luxury. Cars in this market are more for to be driven in but not driving alone. The Maybach is one example that driving on your own means you that you more likely to be mistaken for the chauffeur.

VFL proved that the market exists for more exclusive BMWs particular ones that can be driven. It is this research which has led to The 8 and The X7. Which X7 will be available with optional Individual rear seating. Which will allow the X7 to not be about utility but also a level of exclusivity and luxury unseen in a BMW SUV. Having seen the composition in an X7 M50d it will make the X7 hugely appealing in key luxury markets where the SUV is king.

I remember that burgundy e32 at the old mobile tradition building a few years back with the v16 and the radiators in the back. Reitzle did seem like a character back then.

[cbertels]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

"BMW just needs to make a true 911 competitor!" reminds me a lot of hearing "<car manufacturer> just needs to make a true 3-Series competitor!" for the last 20 years.

Shit is a lot easier said than done. Otherwise we'd all be driving Infinitis and Kia Stingers.

Other than the Alpha, RS5/RS4, C63, CTS/ATS, I guess you're right. Not many cars in the 3er segment...