[RM7]

Originally Posted by W///

That's just not true. The number of cylinders absolutely determine a car's character, including the exhaust (at least from the outside, not piped in noise).

I say BS, from the exhausts I've heard, cylinder count doesn't make the difference, how they actually designed the exhaust does.

But what I'd really like for you to explain is how cylinder count will contribute or not contribute to the cars "character" outside of the exhaust, as you have claimed?

[W///]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I say BS, from the exhausts I've heard, cylinder count doesn't make the difference, how they actually designed the exhaust does.

But what I'd really like for you to explain is how cylinder count will contribute or not contribute to the cars "character" outside of the exhaust, as you have claimed?

So for the first part, you're telling me you can't tell the difference between say a Golf GTI exhaust vs an Audi TT-RS (4 vs 5 cylinders)? Or a the wail of a Lamborghini V10 vs Ferrari V8? That's just down to how the exhaust is designed?

To me, it comes down to not only the sound, but also the NVH. I've had turbocharged 4 cylinder company cars (MINI's, X2 and G20 330i) and while they make good power and get ridiculously good fuel economy, they just don't compare to the smoothness to say the S52 in my E36. I've also driven cars such as the AP1 and AP2 S2000, Alfa Romeo 4C, Miatas ect and none of them have really done it for me. Just personal preference really.

[stein_325i]

From Gordon Wagner.

[chassis]

Cylinder count matters for sound quality. Human sound perception spans the frequency spectrum including harmonics. Cylinder count produces unique sound quality.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by W///

So for the first part, you're telling me you can't tell the difference between say a Golf GTI exhaust vs an Audi TT-RS (4 vs 5 cylinders)? Or a the wail of a Lamborghini V10 vs Ferrari V8? That's just down to how the exhaust is designed?

To me, it comes down to not only the sound, but also the NVH. I've had turbocharged 4 cylinder company cars (MINI's, X2 and G20 330i) and while they make good power and get ridiculously good fuel economy, they just don't compare to the smoothness to say the S52 in my E36. I've also driven cars such as the AP1 and AP2 S2000, Alfa Romeo 4C, Miatas ect and none of them have really done it for me. Just personal preference really.

I'm saying the difference in exhaust note depends on what they tuned for. It's not as cut and dry as cylinder count. When I go to the races, the two most badass sounding vehicles are a Trackhawk and a 918 S with aftermarket exhaust, radically different vehicles, but they sound very similar when they launch and the engines revving up and down sound close, much more aggressive and lounder than any of the other cars at the event. They flat out sound good. It's just down to how the exhaust was tuned, not the cylinder count.

But to your other point, it seems the "character" of the engine is the "smoothness"? But while I-6 engines can be very smooth, so can others, and yet others can be rougher. My Mercedes V6 was extremely smooth, should be rougher than a BMW 6, but it wasn't, it was smoother.

So I just see these things that you have associated such importance to as non-things that can be designed around. The sound and smoothness isn't predicated on having 6 cylinders.

[supra93]

[supra93]

Mercedes‘ chief engineer, Christian Früh, has revealed that handling and packaging were behind the brand’s decision to drop the 6-cylinder engine from the C-Class lineup.

We’ve all heard and processed the news that there will be no C-Classes (not even AMGs) offered with a V8 in the upcoming generation. Emission regulations being what they are, the reasons for Mercedes‘s decision are clear. What’s less obvious, though, is why the straight-six had to go, too.

Speaking to Germany’s Automobilwoche, Früh revealed that the 3.0-liter engine would have been too big of a compromise. The engineer says that to accommodate the larger engine, the front end would have had to grow by 50 mm (nearly two inches).

Worse still, the heavier engine would have increased the load on the front axle, which has negative impacts on handling. The power advantage that the straight-six would have offered is also overrated, according to the engineer.

“Performance-wise, we have more than made up for the difference between the four- and six-cylinder engines through the plug-in hybrid models,” Früh told Automobilwoche. “Besides a slight increase in smoothness, these engines have significantly better efficiency.”

Every C-Class will be electrified to some degree, Mercedes revealed this week. Cars on the lower end of the range may receive mild-hybrids while the higher-end models will be plug-in hybrids.

For fans of Mercedes’ rear-wheel-drive dynamics, though, there’s good news. Mercedes will continue to mount the engine longitudinally, rather than installing it transversely. The space-, complexity- and cost-saving advantages of mounting an engine sideways can’t make up for the “indisputable” performance advantages of a traditional longitudinal setup in the premium class.

Advantages “include superior traction, steering that’s completely free of driving influences, and a premium chassis with a correspondingly complex rear axle design,” said Früh. “The result is comfort, handling, stability driving characteristics that are clearly superior to a front-wheel-drive car.”

Fruh also revealed that although there are plans to introduce an electric C-Class at some point in the future, it won’t be any time soon, and might not even happen during this upcoming generation. He explains that although the engineers could have maybe stuffed enough batteries and motors into the car’s MRA platform to make an EV, that “would have distorted the DNA of the C-Class.”

He adds that although Mercedes’ Electric Vehicle Architecture could be used for the E- and the S-Class, the size and the budget of the C-Class mean that it can’t happen immediately.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/02/me...o-go-for-2022/

[supra93]

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by supra93

That's a W223 S-Class. The W206 C-Class has circular air vents as well as different door panels.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

That's a W223 S-Class. The W206 C-Class has circular air vents as well as different door panels.

Oops, I guess the photographer had mistaken it for the C class.

[Germanauto]

One of the chief engineers explaining why dropping the 6 cylinder is a good thing:

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/02/me...o-go-for-2022/

Listen to all his BS excuses lmao.

[am3r1ka]

Early Leak

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by am3r1ka

Early Leak

Nice find.

Also found this video.

[stein_325i]

Additional leaked images

[damnitBobby]

Hmm they really made the c, e, and s class look very alike

Not sure I like that.

[am3r1ka]

Another leak of the AMG Package. Per usual, Merc knocks the luxury department on the interior to a whole new level. M-Sport definitely has more aggressiveness on the exterior over the Merc

[am3r1ka]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Hmm they really made the c, e, and s class look very alike

Not sure I like that.

They're somewhat notorious for doing this. A lot of people are up in arms though because usually they'll trickled down the features/looks from the S-Class to the lower models. This time it seems they trickled up from the CLA and on.

[Germanauto]

C-class generally looks very different with each generation. This is the first time in a while that it's a clearly evolutionary design. They took a page out of Audi's book here.

The interior is unfortunate but that's what wows customers these days. I trust that in typical Mercedes fashion, behind the flashy interior design the quality of materials will be lacking.

[P1]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

As much as we hate it, these massive touch screens with a bunch of useless features are exactly what today's customers want, especially younger ones. The bigger the screen the bigger the flex. It wows people, it makes the car feel special.

How a car feels to drive? People draw blanks when that topic is brought up.

Single point of failure also. Screen goes out? Oh well. You can't control a thing in your car any longer.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by P1

Single point of failure also. Screen goes out? Oh well. You can't control a thing in your car any longer.

Well this isn't even of concern in my book. The overwhelming majority of these cars will be 2-3 year leases. And even after that I don't anticipate major screen failures. Non-Japanese/Korean automakers really don't care about long-term reliability as it doesn't help them sell cars.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Non-Japanese/Korean automakers really don't care about long-term reliability as it doesn't help them sell cars.

Not to mention keeps their service centers bringing in tons of money. There's a large amount of people paying BMW/MB/Audi labor rates when they could go to a specialized shop for the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

[W///]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Not to mention keeps their service centers bringing in tons of money. There's a large amount of people paying BMW/MB/Audi labor rates when they could go to a specialized shop for the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

My problem is that a lot of these cars are getting more complicated (in terms of electronics) to the point where the indies won't be much help either IMO.

In regards to the battles of screens, I prefer the long BMW tablet, over the Tesla style vertical tables. The HVAC controls are pretty low and definitely not in your range of vision.