[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by KevinC

I think I'm gonna draft a letter to Fred Patek and tell him that he needs to step down, along with anyone else associated with this horrendously bad and poorly launched idea.

That would be FRANK Patek. It would be nice to see the minutes of the board meeting where Frank proposed the idea and see who on the board thought it was a good one!

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by NYG

I'm convinced that their annual "raffles" are rigged as well.

naw.

[DanG]

Hard to believe but I got another post card today from BMWCCA. That makes at least six plus emails.

Come on BMWCCA stop this nonsense.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by DanG

Hard to believe but I got another post card today from BMWCCA. That makes at least six plus emails.

Come on BMWCCA stop this nonsense.

Yea, I got another one as well

[CSBM5]

Same here. I can't believe they keep sending these cards. Really disappointed in the club.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Funny that at least one of you correlated this with the 'Who's Who' directories, as the 'company' behind this does something very similar as well:

https://www.bbb.org/us/tx/dallas/pro...-0875-19000719

I've tossed at least 5 cards too.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

Funny that at least one of you correlated this with the 'Who's Who' directories, as the 'company' behind this does something very similar as well:

Well, it was obvious. Did that surprise you?

[DanG]

Hard to believe but I got another post card today and another email. Will this spam ever stop?

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by DanG

Hard to believe but I got another post card today and another email. Will this spam ever stop?

Yeah, me, too. Obviously they're not getting the response they expected.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by DanG

Hard to believe but I got another post card today and another email. Will this spam ever stop?

Same for me- it never ends.

I expected better from aBmw.

[KevinC]

I've gotten at least 2 more since my last post, and finally an EMAIL today. Why didn't they just do email in the first place?? Cost savings would have been MASSIVE, and we could have opted out (had they given us that option).

[CSBM5]

Same here with both another post card plus the e-mail. I've lost count now how many of these cards have been sent, 7? The illicit plea on the card saying to call to "confirm" your membership info...sigh.

[snareman]

Amen for having made it a simple email. If I was going to respond to it I'd be much more likely to do it via an email link. Membership fees are probably going up next year for all the money they've spent on this.

[pseto]

Just to clarify a few things, more than 1000+ people have contributed to this campaign, but no idea if they purchased anything or not. Documenting the club's history is a great thing but CCA doesn't have the internal resources to do it themselves; as a volunteer-run club, some things have to be contracted out.

I find some of this irritating too, I get those mailers and emails, but the vendor could be paying for all cost of sales. We don't know if the club has to pay for anything, but people will speculate because well....the internet

[snareman]

Originally Posted by pseto

Just to clarify a few things, more than 1000+ people have contributed to this campaign, but no idea if they purchased anything or not. Documenting the club's history is a great thing but CCA doesn't have the internal resources to do it themselves; as a volunteer-run club, some things have to be contracted out.

I find some of this irritating too, I get those mailers and emails, but the vendor could be paying for all cost of sales. We don't know if the club has to pay for anything, but people will speculate because well....the internet

It's just off putting that its sent out under the guise of a help with BMW history thing, but really it seems to be more of a sales tactic with maybe a side history benefit. I never called so I don't know how hard the sales side is pushed, but they wouldn't have send out repeated cards to so many people if they weren't into to make money off it. My high school did pretty much the same thing.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by snareman

It's just off putting that its sent out under the guise of a help with BMW history thing, but really it seems to be more of a sales tactic with maybe a side history benefit. I never called so I don't know how hard the sales side is pushed, but they wouldn't have send out repeated cards to so many people if they weren't into to make money off it. My high school did pretty much the same thing.

Exactly. The cards state in dark bold print: "IMPORTANT: Verification of BMW Car Club of America member information is needed. Please call..." -- this is of course a ruse, a lie. It implies that something is amiss with one's membership and one must call right away to correct the problem when in fact there is no "verification" of "member information" needed, required or necessary in any way.

So the whole campaign is based on an intentional lie, a ruse, to con people into calling that number and then be presented with the telemarketing spiel. That is beneath the club and never should have been allowed to proceed.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by pseto

Just to clarify a few things, more than 1000+ people have contributed to this campaign, but no idea if they purchased anything or not. Documenting the club's history is a great thing but CCA doesn't have the internal resources to do it themselves; as a volunteer-run club, some things have to be contracted out.

I find some of this irritating too, I get those mailers and emails, but the vendor could be paying for all cost of sales. We don't know if the club has to pay for anything, but people will speculate because well....the internet

If you truly believe the Club is "volunteer-run", check the current financial statement for how much is paid in salary. Oh, you aren't able to find the current financial statement? For the paid employee/contributor list just check to the left of the opening seasonal monologue from Satch on p.5 of every Roundel for both paid office and Roundel staff. As a disclaimer, I, too was a Club volunteer for decades, having formed a local chapter, serving as newsletter editor and president for more years than I can remember, and then as Zone Governor before we started calling them Regional Vice-Presidents, then national vp, and several terms as president. I also served a 3-year term as Chairman of the International Council of BMW Clubs in Munich. All of those were un-paid volunteer positions. I later was offered a paid position of proofreader for Roundel and later a paid position as Managing Editor. I was dismissed by the Board from that position for telling them the truth they didn't want to hear about how (among other things) they had run an election that didn't conform to the Club's by-laws. They paid me to go away and to not comment on the reason for a specific time period. I have that in a written agreement. I have also received personal apologies from two board members present at the meeting where I was told to leave. A decade late, but apologies none the less.

The elected officials who make up the board are all un-paid volunteers. They deserve your respect and support for their time and effort. Most have come up through the ranks of local chapter management—often providing hundreds of hours of volunteer work to support the Club. But their job is to oversee those who get paid the salaries to do the day-to-day operational jobs. This would include approval of such a program as this "Who's Who" promotional dreck. I can only assume it was proposed by the Executive Director (paid) as a money-maker that would cost the Club nothing. There are many other ways the Club can prostitute itself that might be even more offensive to many member, but this one has just been so high-school in its presentation so far. There was already a 50th Anniversary publication provided by the Club and put together by Jackie Jouret for the "Passion" exhibit at the BMWCCA Foundation museum. I should know. I was interviewed for the book, even though the author was told she could not print what I told her related to very important historic decisions concerning Roundel publication changes made decades before, involving founding members of the Club.

Yes, those who serve on the Club Board of Directors are volunteers. The Roundel and office staff are not. Make no mistake about that. They are fighting for and proposing projects to preserve their own jobs. And this disingenuous "offer" is just one of them. Changing the name and farming out The Event Formerly Known as Oktoberfest to high-school event management with a penchant for charm bracelets was another.

If you don't like what you're seeing, be sure to express your dissatisfaction to your regional vice-president and the rest of the board. Don't bother with the National Office because they are supposed to be under the direction of the board. And see if you can find the Club's financial statement which we used to publish in Roundel every year.

[pseto]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

If you truly believe the Club is "volunteer-run", check the current financial statement for how much is paid in salary. Oh, you aren't able to find the current financial statement? For the paid employee/contributor list just check to the left of the opening seasonal monologue from Satch on p.5 of every Roundel for both paid office and Roundel staff. As a disclaimer, I, too was a Club volunteer for decades, having formed a local chapter, serving as newsletter editor and president for more years than I can remember, and then as Zone Governor before we started calling them Regional Vice-Presidents, then national vp, and several terms as president. I also served a 3-year term as Chairman of the International Council of BMW Clubs in Munich. All of those were un-paid volunteer positions. I later was offered a paid position of proofreader for Roundel and later a paid position as Managing Editor. I was dismissed by the Board from that position for telling them the truth they didn't want to hear about how (among other things) they had run an election that didn't conform to the Club's by-laws. They paid me to go away and to not comment on the reason for a specific time period. I have that in a written agreement. I have also received personal apologies from two board members present at the meeting where I was told to leave. A decade late, but apologies none the less.

The elected officials who make up the board are all un-paid volunteers. They deserve your respect and support for their time and effort. Most have come up through the ranks of local chapter management—often providing hundreds of hours of volunteer work to support the Club. But their job is to oversee those who get paid the salaries to do the day-to-day operational jobs. This would include approval of such a program as this "Who's Who" promotional dreck. I can only assume it was proposed by the Executive Director (paid) as a money-maker that would cost the Club nothing. There are many other ways the Club can prostitute itself that might be even more offensive to many member, but this one has just been so high-school in its presentation so far. There was already a 50th Anniversary publication provided by the Club and put together by Jackie Jouret for the "Passion" exhibit at the BMWCCA Foundation museum. I should know. I was interviewed for the book, even though the author was told she could not print what I told her related to very important historic decisions concerning Roundel publication changes made decades before, involving founding members of the Club.

Yes, those who serve on the Club Board of Directors are volunteers. The Roundel and office staff are not. Make no mistake about that. They are fighting for and proposing projects to preserve their own jobs. And this disingenuous "offer" is just one of them. Changing the name and farming out The Event Formerly Known as Oktoberfest to high-school event management with a penchant for charm bracelets was another.

If you don't like what you're seeing, be sure to express your dissatisfaction to your regional vice-president and the rest of the board. Don't bother with the National Office because they are supposed to be under the direction of the board. And see if you can find the Club's financial statement which we used to publish in Roundel every year.

I'm very well aware of CCA's org structure, my point being that w/ 70+ chapters there are way more volunteers across the board than the few paid positions at the national office/Roundel....so the club is ~98% 'volunteer-run' There were many decisions made throughout the years that didn't pan out and significantly many more that did. After 50+ years, CCA still exists w/ 70k+ members and if people want to cancel their membership over a history project w/ a few mailers, that's their decision. But, seems to be overkill to me.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by pseto

I'm very well aware of CCA's org structure, my point being that w/ 70+ chapters there are way more volunteers across the board than the few paid positions at the national office/Roundel....so the club is ~98% 'volunteer-run' There were many decisions made throughout the years that didn't pan out and significantly many more that did. After 50+ years, CCA still exists w/ 70k+ members and if people want to cancel their membership over a history project w/ a few mailers, that's their decision. But, seems to be overkill to me.

So you're willing to dismiss any stupid decision the Club makes because . . . "98% are volunteers"?

Way more than 98% of American citizens are not paid to sit in Congress or the Whitehouse, but those paid people are the ones who guide, govern, and create the laws and appoint the judges. They are also the ones we blame when something goes wrong. The Club is no different. If you don't like the direction the Executive Director (paid employee) is taking the Club, then let your area representative (a volunteer) know. The board is tasked with directing the Club. All I'm saying is if you don't like something the Club is doing, then either let them know or volunteer to run for office and change it. I've been there and done that and decided I'm done with it. Joining a Club to beat yourself with it is not a good plan. I think I said that in one of my first Roundel columns.l

I still want to see the Club financials. Maybe I missed them. Someone please point out where I can see them. Thanks

[BMWCCA1]

Oh crap. The BMW club I joined in 1971, long before I'd heard of BMW CCA—who currently share office space with BMW CCA in South Carolina—is also doing the same "oral history" project as the one we're talking about here. And answering the same questions from its membership. BMW Motorcycle Owners of America. Times must be tough for everyone.

[Mavus]

I also got another card recently, #4 I believe in addition to emails. From my point of view this scam now and I will not be renewing my membership. I had higher expectations of this club and believed it is run by people that understand their members.

[LogicalApex]

For those who want to opt out such as myself. You can do so @ http://bmwcca.org/ohp-opt-out

It will opt you out of mailers and emails regarding this project.