[dth656]

i'd be curious to see details on that GPS rcver w/ supposed coordinates in pakistan. india always manages to blame pk for its troubles. we do the same (balochi separatists, NWFP insurgents, etc)

in this case, from the pictures i've seen, the people look south indian, not pakistani.

[Gesler]

Originally Posted by dth656

i'd be curious to see details on that GPS rcver w/ supposed coordinates in pakistan. india always manages to blame pk for its troubles. we do the same (balochi separatists, NWFP insurgents, etc)

in this case, from the pictures i've seen, the people look south indian, not pakistani.

seriously? I am not aware that there is a distinct difference between the way south and north indians(and thus pakistanis) look. You can find dark colored people in the north and fair colored in the south.

I do agree that India always manages to blame Pakistan, but as they say in Medicine, one cannot help suspect the commonest causes or the most common presentations of the rare causes.

[zetaxi165]

Originally Posted by bmstyle71

and I quote:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[109:1] Say, "O you disbelievers.

[109:2] "I do not worship what you worship.

[109:3] "Nor do you worship what I worship.

[109:4] "Nor will I ever worship what you worship.

[109:5] "Nor will you ever worship what I worship.

[109:6] "To you is your religion, and to me is my religion."

So please don't attack religions and blame them because that's exactly the excuse the terrorists are using to make you believe and hey, it's working and you're the proof. If your theory is correct, then why am I not doing the things they are although we have the same religion?

First, your argument saying above where you have stated that since you do not do the same things as the terrorists, that means that those points are not mentioned in the book. A lot of people follow the parts they choose and ignore certain others. For example - do you give a percentage of your salary to charity every month - as per the book (I wouldn't think so). Have you prayed five times a day every day of your life (have you missed it even once - as a child, adult whatever).

Anyway, your quotes from the book are a bit wrong.

Allow me to quote the bits that are relevant (for all who don't know a sura is the equivalent of a verse)

Sura - 009.030
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Sura - 009.029
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

p.s: Jizya is a tax on "non-believers" living in the "believer" lands - strange isn't it???

I am not here to cause strife - I only point out the truth.

[zetaxi165]

Originally Posted by kabalm18

+1

I am not Muslim but I know a lot of people on Bimmerpost are and they are cool people to me. I would think they are all over the US and if to kill the non believers is in the book and that is what they all believe, then why don't we have these attacks everyday in the US?

You don't see attacks every day, because most people do no believe in violence. That does not mean that violence does not exist in that book.

Anyway - you want to have a good time - check the out the activities of CAIR.

[zetaxi165]

Originally Posted by dth656

i'd be curious to see details on that GPS rcver w/ supposed coordinates in pakistan. india always manages to blame pk for its troubles. we do the same (balochi separatists, NWFP insurgents, etc)

in this case, from the pictures i've seen, the people look south indian, not pakistani.

Funny I don't know any south indian that looks like that....

Ask any south indian and they will tell you the terrorists look Pakistani.

there is a subtle difference in features.

BTW - The Paki govt was supposed to send over their intelligence chief to meet the Indian govt and discuss the connection - but they have suddenly pulled out of this and are sending low level officials instead - hmmm guilty? I think so.

[bmstyle71]

Originally Posted by zetaxi165

First, your argument saying above where you have stated that since you do not do the same things as the terrorists, that means that those points are not mentioned in the book. A lot of people follow the parts they choose and ignore certain others. For example - do you give a percentage of your salary to charity every month - as per the book (I wouldn't think so). Have you prayed five times a day every day of your life (have you missed it even once - as a child, adult whatever).

Anyway, your quotes from the book are a bit wrong.

Allow me to quote the bits that are relevant (for all who don't know a sura is the equivalent of a verse)

Sura - 009.030
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Sura - 009.029
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

p.s: Jizya is a tax on "non-believers" living in the "believer" lands - strange isn't it???

I am not here to cause strife - I only point out the truth.

My quotes are wrong? You're right...you know everything. Our religion tells us to kill innocent people, you're right. I'll keep my religion and you keep yours.

[yomash]

Originally Posted by zetaxi165

Sura - 009.030
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

This is saying that what you beleive is between you and God. In Islam, associating partners with God is the highest sin, and this is something God is saying that He will deal with you about. Has nothing to do with a Muslim killing innocent people. That is NOT allowed.

Originally Posted by zetaxi165

Sura - 009.029
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Does Islam allow you to fight to defend your home, family, possesions, against oppression? yes of course. Does it allow you to kill innocent people/women/children? NO WAY ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Originally Posted by zetaxi165

p.s: Jizya is a tax on "non-believers" living in the "believer" lands - strange isn't it???

Exactly, An example of this is when Jews - who were escaping opression and persecusion from the Christians would seek refuge in the Muslim lands where they were allowed to practice freely and live with dignity. In return, they would have to pay a tax for military protection and charity. What is the problem with this?

Originally Posted by zetaxi165

I am not here to cause strife - I only point out the truth.

But that is what you are doing. Don't hate us. The VAST majority of us struggle to practice our religion for what it was meant to be. If you were poor we would give you charity. We respect your mothers, daughters, and sisters by not staring/womenizing them. We would not gossip or slander you. We would try to be a good neighbor to you. We don't go out and get drunk and kill people on the road and we don't gamble to take your money away.

If you have some time, maybe you should visit a mosque and meet a Muslim to learn a little more before you quote select verses from the Quran.

[hks786]

^^^

Nice post Badmaash. I was going to post something but I think you pretty much covered everything

[dth656]

Originally Posted by zetaxi165

Funny I don't know any south indian that looks like that....

Ask any south indian and they will tell you the terrorists look Pakistani.

there is a subtle difference in features.

BTW - The Paki govt was supposed to send over their intelligence chief to meet the Indian govt and discuss the connection - but they have suddenly pulled out of this and are sending low level officials instead - hmmm guilty? I think so.

meh. maybe india should take responsibility for its own security instead of blaming everything on its neighbors. its probably best taht zardari and his asinine cronies didn't end up sending the head of the ISI over.

[yomash]

Originally Posted by hks786

^^^

Nice post Badmaash. I was going to post something but I think you pretty much covered everything

AsSalamAlaykum (peace be upon you!)

bro, good to hear from you. I havn't been around here in a while.

I tried to be brief - I'm sure you could've done better with one of your classic lengthy posts

[Gesler]

Originally Posted by dth656

meh. maybe india should take responsibility for its own security instead of blaming everything on its neighbors. its probably best taht zardari and his asinine cronies didn't end up sending the head of the ISI over.

Wish India could just give away kashmir and have all its muslims pack up and leave for pakistan and put an end to all this useless violence. there is just no solution to this mess in sight.

[MMMazing07]

Originally Posted by NoKids

the punishment for suicide bombers should be more severe.

im pretty sure there punishment is already severe

its pretty unbelievable people are still blaming the Quran for all this unrest. the Quran isnt about killing all the non- believers, its about praising Allah and all the thing he has created for us. there are those who interpret it as an excuse for mass murders but they are not muslims, they are monsters. they put shame to our religion.

[bmstyle71]

Originally Posted by Badmaash

This is saying that what you beleive is between you and God. In Islam, associating partners with God is the highest sin, and this is something God is saying that He will deal with you about. Has nothing to do with a Muslim killing innocent people. That is NOT allowed.



Does Islam allow you to fight to defend your home, family, possesions, against oppression? yes of course. Does it allow you to kill innocent people/women/children? NO WAY ABSOLUTELY NOT.


Exactly, An example of this is when Jews - who were escaping opression and persecusion from the Christians would seek refuge in the Muslim lands where they were allowed to practice freely and live with dignity. In return, they would have to pay a tax for military protection and charity. What is the problem with this?



But that is what you are doing. Don't hate us. The VAST majority of us struggle to practice our religion for what it was meant to be. If you were poor we would give you charity. We respect your mothers, daughters, and sisters by not staring/womenizing them. We would not gossip or slander you. We would try to be a good neighbor to you. We don't go out and get drunk and kill people on the road and we don't gamble to take your money away.

If you have some time, maybe you should visit a mosque and meet a Muslim to learn a little more before you quote select verses from the Quran.

You took that right out of my mouth man. He's saying that they pick and choose parts of the religion they want to follow. Ok fair enough. So in other words they are choosing to ignore the parts of the religion that say killing people is wrong and unjust, so why is he blaming the religion if he himself said they are NOT FOLLOWING the parts saying killing is against our religion. Therefore, blame them not the religion.

Like you said he's quoting verses that are merely saying how god will deal with them. What does that have to do with killing people....
Also, in the great American law, if someone kicks your door down you have the right to take his face off with a 12 gauge....but when we do it, we are terrorists. God does not condone killing, however he does tell us to defend ourselves and religion IFFFFFFFFFF attacked first. In other words he says to bring the religion to the people and if they do not listen walk away, if they attack you attack them back. If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.

Iraq didn't even invade us and look what we did to them. Are we terrorists because of that? You're telling me no innocent people died over there? What about all those people they stripped naked and started making fun of them? Those Brits aren't terrorsits because of that? I don't want to begin to think what an arab/muslim country would have been dubbed if they did that. This country is great don't get me wrong, I was born here and love it, I was just giving an example of how when anyone else does something it goes under the rug, but when you hear middle east..TERRORISM.

[youyou]

Guys i didn't start this thread to have a dispute on Muslims or Christians or Jews.
It was about Mumbai so please enough of the politics and religions!!
The Bible, Torah and Quran are all great books and could be interpreted differently by different people.

[zetaxi165]

Originally Posted by dth656

meh. maybe india should take responsibility for its own security instead of blaming everything on its neighbors. its probably best taht zardari and his asinine cronies didn't end up sending the head of the ISI over.

Maybe, The US should take responsibility for their own security during 9/11 and stop blaming others.

- tit for tat.

[The_Blob]

Originally Posted by youyou

I am jewish and i have many muslim friends...
As you were saying these idiots interpret religion the way they see fit...
My parents were born in Morocco as well as many many other jews back in the 40's 50's 60's. There were hundreds of thousands of jews living side by side in absolute peace with muslims in a muslim country.
All this shit really gets to me sometimes.

You're Jewish and you have many Muslim friends?
How about taking a lie detector test?

[GAM3OVR85]

Originally Posted by The_Blob

You're Jewish and you have many Muslim friends?
How about taking a lie detector test?

huh? Whats wrong with that?

Matter of fact, im Muslim and im friends with him
As I said in my previous post, I have alot of Jewish friends and they are all cool, no problems.

[zetaxi165]

Originally Posted by Badmaash

This is saying that what you beleive is between you and God. In Islam, associating partners with God is the highest sin, and this is something God is saying that He will deal with you about. Has nothing to do with a Muslim killing innocent people. That is NOT allowed.

Please re-read the verse. It says that The Jews and Christians will be destroyed by God for associating partners with him. So the Jews and Christians are WRONG in their beliefs. You don't see how some people will interpret this to mean - Well, since God is going to destroy them anyway, I am doing Gods work???????

Does Islam allow you to fight to defend your home, family, possesions, against oppression? yes of course. Does it allow you to kill innocent people/women/children? NO WAY ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Funny, cos Islam expanded through military conquests and forced conversions. The first conquest happened when the Quereshi tribe in Saudi Arabia refused to accept your prophet. And guess what he did to the Quereshi tribe.... I guess you are saying the the India and Spain sent out invitations to the Muslim rulers of the day to come and take over their lands? Jerusalem was conquered as well.... I guess these were all defensive. (Yes I know every religion has had its share of this in the past - but what irks me is that you choose to ignore that fact that most of your fights are not defensive).

Oh by the way - Enjoy this news:

Indonesian Clerics push anti porn bill but support marriage of CHILD to one of their fellow clerics - This is is no way similar to the boys molested by the Clergy - the clergy does not condone this.

Exactly, An example of this is when Jews - who were escaping opression and persecusion from the Christians would seek refuge in the Muslim lands where they were allowed to practice freely and live with dignity. In return, they would have to pay a tax for military protection and charity. What is the problem with this?

Can you prove this? Cos I don't ever believe this happening. You see what you are doing is twisting history. The Jews had been in Arabia prior to the Muslims. So when the Middle East was conquered by your prophet and his followers - all you were doing is taking over land with a resident Jewish population and then taxing them. There are very few instances of Jews fleeing to Muslim lands. The Jews fled OUT of Jerusalem AFTER Jerusalem was conquered by the arabs. That explains their wide dispersion into Europe.

Did you know that the Spanish Christians were taxed (Jizya) when they were conquered? The Mughals of India - especially Aurangzeb - taxed the Hindus in India.

So who was being protected? Do you mean to say the Spanish and the Hindus needed protection in their own country? Protection from whom?

But that is what you are doing. Don't hate us.

All, I am doing is mentioning the inconsistencies and illustrating how your facts are being twisted. I DON'T hate anyone.

The VAST majority of us struggle to practice our religion for what it was meant to be.

Same as all the non-muslims who end up in a muslim country (example Saudi Arabia - did you know that a non-muslim cannot bring his religious books to practice in his own home - the punishment is prison for a few months - how NICE)

If you were poor we would give you charity.

Thanks for that. I will remember it. Of course some of the middle eastern charity organisations would not agree.

We respect your mothers, daughters, and sisters by not staring/womenizing them.

ha ha ha ha. I will not even start on this one. All I can say is why don't you actually go live in the middle east and see the "respect" that is given to women - especially the westerners. You should see the "respect" that is given to Indian - who are considered a little more than slaves.

We would not gossip or slander you. We would try to be a good neighbor to you. We don't go out and get drunk and kill people on the road and we don't gamble to take your money away.

Again, your generalisations are pretty poor. Have you ever watched an Arab channel? Jews are compared to pigs and monkey BY LITTLE KIDS. They have complete stories where its all about Jews kidnapping kids to mix their blood into their food.

If you have some time, maybe you should visit a mosque and meet a Muslim to learn a little more before you quote select verses from the Quran.

See Badmash, unfortunately for you, I have studied religion (almost everyone of them) and history. I do know what I am talking about.

If you would like me to point out the flaws in any religion, I can do it.

All I am doing here is illustrate why the problem comes from the book - since there are many instances of violence. These verses are then used to brainwash kids in Madrasas who grow up to become these terrorists.

This does not shock me as much as the good muslims who turn a blind eye to it.

[The_Blob]

Jews.. Muslims... they should just forgive and move on.....

Getting revenge goes absolutely nowhere. I don't know why the Jewish religion promotes getting revenge such as the situation with the Jews in Israel towards the Palestians.

[youyou]

Originally Posted by The_Blob

Jews.. Muslims... they should just forgive and move on.....

Getting revenge goes absolutely nowhere. I don't know why the Jewish religion promotes getting revenge such as the situation with the Jews in Israel towards the Palestians.

What are you talking about?
You have no idea what your saying.

[youyou]

Originally Posted by The_Blob

You're Jewish and you have many Muslim friends?
How about taking a lie detector test?

Bring it on.

[youyou]

Originally Posted by MTL Bimmer

huh? Whats wrong with that?

Matter of fact, im Muslim and im friends with him
As I said in my previous post, I have alot of Jewish friends and they are all cool, no problems.

Thanks Fahad.