[OriginalFake]

Originally Posted by ramparts

I think it will depend on the time of year and where you are.

Take the UK for example, I'm currently having to change the temperature/ seats / steering wheel daily because it can't make its mind up on the weather !

It's gone from 18C to 3C to 13C back to 7C and now it's 9C

If I leave my car at 72 degrees F for instance, it doesn't matter whether it's 32 degrees F or 82 degrees F outside. The car is going to do what it needs to do to keep it at the temperature I set. That's the point of automatic settings, right? When it's cold, the car turns on the heated seats. When it's hot, it turns on the air conditioning.

[ramparts]

I have mine in auto too , but that doesn't mean I want the cabin to always be the same temp. If it's warm I have it set to blow cold air ( or if I've just been working out, unless it's been raining and I'm soaked in which case I put it up .

[RichF90M5C]

How can it be illegal to use your phone while driving, yet fiddling about with a massive iPad in your car is not. Once there’s been a few deaths as a result of this, the buttons will be back.

[OriginalFake]

Originally Posted by ramparts

I have mine in auto too , but that doesn't mean I want the cabin to always be the same temp. If it's warm I have it set to blow cold air ( or if I've just been working out, unless it's been raining and I'm soaked in which case I put it up .

Okay so the temperature controls are always there. You don't have to go into the menu to change them.

[ramparts]

Originally Posted by OriginalFake

Okay so the temperature controls are always there. You don't have to go into the menu to change them.

Correct. But the touch screen is much more fiddly then the button, and you can use the buttons without looking at them

[Wheelwright]

Also with the latest iDrive8 BMW has dispensed with the shortcut keys (because they removed the physical 1-8 keys). Instead you have to swipe down to get shortcuts menu, and then press on the resulting shortcuts, which is much more distracting, time-consuming and error-prone than just clicking on a physical button. So contrary to glowing BMW press releases, it all boils down to cost-cutting, pure and simple.

[ramparts]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Also with the latest iDrive8 BMW has dispensed with the shortcut keys (because they removed the physical 1-8 keys). Instead you have to swipe down to get shortcuts menu, and then press on the resulting shortcuts, which is much more distracting, time-consuming and error-prone than just clicking on a physical button. So contrary to glowing BMW press releases, it all boils down to cost-cutting, pure and simple.

Yup. As you can have both !

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by ramparts

Correct. But the touch screen is much more fiddly then the button, and you can use the buttons without looking at them

I am still trying to understand this position about being able to use the physical buttons without ever having to look at them. How is that possible? I can maybe do it, but most of the time I end up looking at my physical buttons and look at the small screen as I am turning the dial.

If anything it is worse on my E90 because I have to look down to shifter level as that is where the climate controls are in the car.

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Also with the latest iDrive8 BMW has dispensed with the shortcut keys (because they removed the physical 1-8 keys). Instead you have to swipe down to get shortcuts menu, and then press on the resulting shortcuts, which is much more distracting, time-consuming and error-prone than just clicking on a physical button. So contrary to glowing BMW press releases, it all boils down to cost-cutting, pure and simple.

You can do this with the iDrive controller. Pushing up on the controller will bring down the menu, and you can use the controller to click on the shortcut.

[Wheelwright]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

You can do this with the iDrive controller. Pushing up on the controller will bring down the menu, and you can use the controller to click on the shortcut.

Can you also use the controller to adjust interior temperature left and right, or there are some functions that ONLY work via the touchscreen ? (call me pedantic but I don't want to touch the screen at all because of all the grease).

[OriginalFake]

Originally Posted by ramparts

Correct. But the touch screen is much more fiddly then the button, and you can use the buttons without looking at them

It really isn't. And once you know where the controls are on the touchscreen, you can use them without looking at them. You're acting like you didn't have to learn where the physical controls were at some point too. You don't have the physical feedback but it doesn't sound like that's your issue.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

We won‘t ever know how long it took. That said, I would be impressed if they had made the climate menu in a single 2 week sprint. It is an entirely new feature to idrive (not just a reskin/rework of idrive 7), and while in a perfect agile world, you are probably correct in saying it cost nothing. The problem is, agile often isn‘t perfect. Features change, scope changes, timeline changes, teams change. Just because a developer should be able to do something in a small timeframe, doesn‘t mean that actually happens, and it doesn‘t even have to be at the fault of the developer.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don‘t think I will have a problem with this climate menu, we will find out once I receive the vehicle. The important part is I am keeping an open mind.

Some people will love it, some will hate it. The point is, not everyone is going to love it, and not everyone is going to hate it. This is an enthusiast forum, ofc its going to be biased towards hating it because this forum‘s demographic is skewed toward car enthusiast, physical buttons, analog clusters, manual transmissions, etc… Unfortunately, not everyone that drives a BMW is a car enthusiast (I wish). Probably not even the majority anymore. Therefore they are catering to those. That isn‘t BMWs problem, or car enthusiast problem. It is just reality.

And time will tell. Cadillac once luxuriated in the role of "the standard for the world". Then it started cost cutting, sharing parts with Chevrolet, etc. and slipped and slipped.

Cadillac is trying to come back now (the Lyriq is a nice looking vehicle) but it is a lot harder to come back then it is to fall.

It will take years before we find out if the current BMW design ethos was a sales success.

While I love driving a BMW, I now have deposits down on a Lucid Air and a Cadillac Lyriq.

[ramparts]

Originally Posted by OriginalFake

It really isn't. And once you know where the controls are on the touchscreen, you can use them without looking at them. You're acting like you didn't have to learn where the physical controls were at some point too. You don't have the physical feedback but it doesn't sound like that's your issue.

I have pretty hard calousis on my fingers from years of guitar playing and outside work. It means touch screens don't like working in "first touch" a lot of the time ( with the exception of an iPhone they are fine ).

So it does take more concentration to us the idrive screen then the controller or buttons

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by RichF90M5C

How can it be illegal to use your phone while driving, yet fiddling about with a massive iPad in your car is not. Once there’s been a few deaths as a result of this, the buttons will be back.

^^^THIS^^

I don't see how removing physical buttons can improve safety. Anyone care to argue how changing menus and navigating option screens to do simple tasks that were once regulated to a physical button will help road safety? How many of us had have close calls where a second or two more would have been the difference between foul language and pounding heart vs your loved ones setting up funeral plans? And with that in mind is it not safe to conclude there will be a body count to this before it's inevitable revocation?

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

^^^THIS^^

I don't see how removing physical buttons can improve safety. Anyone care to argue how changing menus and navigating option screens to do simple tasks that were once regulated to a physical button will help road safety? How many of us had have close calls where a second or two more would have been the difference between foul language and pounding heart vs your loved ones setting up funeral plans? And with that in mind is it not safe to conclude there will be a body count to this before it's inevitable revocation?

Again, don't really understand this argument when with physical buttons one still had to look away from the road. It is the same thing. Unless the argument is none of you ever looked away from the road while setting climate controls with physical buttons and dials, which I very much doubt, because most people need to. If you argue this climate control menu is a safety risk, then I really hope you never go above the speed limit, lets talk about that too if safety is your biggest concern with this.

I do agree its a safety risk, but what I disagree on is it's any bigger risk than already present, and

Atleast this climate control menu is A.) much better at auto regulation it appears, limiting your need to actually change the temperature and B.) closer to the windshield road level, so you can still have a better vision as opposed to looking DOWN, which takes your eyes off the road completely.

If anything because of those two, its actually safer. If you want to be super critical about safety, you shouldn't be touching the climate controls at all while driving, physical or not. The idea behind illegal texting and driving is you have to physically take your peripheral vision off the road too, and often look down, so you lose all driving awareness in front of you, and you likely aren't just hitting a single button that takes 5 seconds to hit and then you are done.

iDrive 8, you set the temperature, and you forget about it, only changing it very rarely if you need to, it auto regulates pretty well I am told.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Also with the latest iDrive8 BMW has dispensed with the shortcut keys (because they removed the physical 1-8 keys). Instead you have to swipe down to get shortcuts menu, and then press on the resulting shortcuts, which is much more distracting, time-consuming and error-prone than just clicking on a physical button. So contrary to glowing BMW press releases, it all boils down to cost-cutting, pure and simple.

Which I would buy on a Nissan. But BMW is allegedly a luxury mark and shouldn't be saving a couple of bucks to make its car emulate an econobox.

Between this issue and BMW's horrific design, I have been reluctantly moving on and have a deposit on a Lucid Air and as a backup on a Cadillac Lyriq.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by OriginalFake

It really isn't. And once you know where the controls are on the touchscreen, you can use them without looking at them.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Exactly. Nobody looks away from their phone/tablet when using it just because they can. Give us a break.

[TheMaxXHD]

Most people look at physical climate controls and take their eyes off the road for adjusting the climate, either with the rotary dials or the buttons. This has been a thing since the introduction of climate controls. If you don't good for you, but most people take their eyes off the road anyway to adjust climate, physical or not.

Please stop acting like this is the end of the world. What is even more crazy is some of you believe this is less safe, despite being closer to the windshield and thus the road peripherally, and simply tapping the touchscreen, which is no different than pressing a button, other than maybe slightly more difficult because no physical feedback (I will concede that point).

Some of you speed on the road, going 10+mph over....if this is about safety, I hope y'all go the speed limit.....because then we need to talk about ALL unsafe road practices...

If you want to criticize this system, atleast do so from a more objective view by actually using the system. Already there have been people here that have received and used idrive 8 models and have by in large missed and would prefer the physical controls, but also have no major issues or qualms with the new touchscreen solution, and say the auto solution seems to work fairly well and limits how much you need to touch it. I take actual user feedback and experience more seriously than the majority in this thread criticizing it who have yet to step foot in a idrive 8 car.

[ramparts]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Most people look at physical climate controls and take their eyes off the road for adjusting the climate, either with the rotary dials or the buttons. This has been a thing since the introduction of climate controls. If you don't good for you, but most people take their eyes off the road anyway to adjust climate, physical or not.

Please stop acting like this is the end of the world. What is even more crazy is some of you believe this is less safe, despite being closer to the windshield and thus the road peripherally, and simply tapping the touchscreen, which is no different than pressing a button, other than maybe slightly more difficult because no physical feedback (I will concede that point).

Some of you speed on the road, going 10+mph over....if this is about safety, I hope y'all go the speed limit.....because then we need to talk about ALL unsafe road practices...

If you want to criticize this system, atleast do so from a more objective view by actually using the system. Already there have been people here that have received and used idrive 8 models and have by in large missed and would prefer the physical controls, but also have no major issues or qualms with the new touchscreen solution, and say the auto solution seems to work fairly well and limits how much you need to touch it. I take actual user feedback and experience more seriously than the majority in this thread criticizing it who have yet to step foot in a idrive 8 car.

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Most people look at physical climate controls and take their eyes off the road for adjusting the climate, either with the rotary dials or the buttons. This has been a thing since the introduction of climate controls. If you don't good for you, but most people take their eyes off the road anyway to adjust climate, physical or not.

Please stop acting like this is the end of the world. What is even more crazy is some of you believe this is less safe, despite being closer to the windshield and thus the road peripherally, and simply tapping the touchscreen, which is no different than pressing a button, other than maybe slightly more difficult because no physical feedback (I will concede that point).

Some of you speed on the road, going 10+mph over....if this is about safety, I hope y'all go the speed limit.....because then we need to talk about ALL unsafe road practices...

If you want to criticize this system, atleast do so from a more objective view by actually using the system. Already there have been people here that have received and used idrive 8 models and have by in large missed and would prefer the physical controls, but also have no major issues or qualms with the new touchscreen solution, and say the auto solution seems to work fairly well and limits how much you need to touch it. I take actual user feedback and experience more seriously than the majority in this thread criticizing it who have yet to step foot in a idrive 8 car.

I have both an idrive 7 and idrive 8 far in the household. And I can say from experience with both ( having driven 200+ miles in one go in both, the lack of buttons is a downgrade). They put them in the new rolls Royce, their most expensive car with idrive 8. So clearly they have the ability to do so. It's simply cost cutting to remove the buttons. The perfect solution is the one they have for RR. Both.

A second compromise would be lose the 1-8 buttons , but leave the heating controls !

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Exactly. Nobody looks away from their phone/tablet when using it just because they can. Give us a break.

You still look at the keyboard on your iPhone when typing stuff out?

A lot of people jump into apps based on pure muscle memory.

The only physical buttons that can safely be used without looking are volume and fan controls, and that's because you get instant non-visual feedback (louder music, a stronger breeze). You can't effectively use temp controls without looking at the temp display. You can't adjust your heated seats or set the fan airflow direction without looking at their respective displays/LEDs. And hop in any unfamiliar car and you'll be looking away from the road regardless of whether it's filled to the brim with physical buttons or not.

It's OK for a $60,000+ complex machine that you'll potentially own for years to have a learning curve. Take 30-60 minutes and surf through all of the screens, get acquainted with how it all works. Being familiar with the layout is far more relevant to safety and comfort than digital vs. physical.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Again, don't really understand this argument when with physical buttons one still had to look away from the road. It is the same thing. Unless the argument is none of you ever looked away from the road while setting climate controls with physical buttons and dials, which I very much doubt, because most people need to. If you argue this climate control menu is a safety risk, then I really hope you never go above the speed limit, lets talk about that too if safety is your biggest concern with this.

I do agree its a safety risk, but what I disagree on is it's any bigger risk than already present, and

Atleast this climate control menu is A.) much better at auto regulation it appears, limiting your need to actually change the temperature and B.) closer to the windshield road level, so you can still have a better vision as opposed to looking DOWN, which takes your eyes off the road completely.

If anything because of those two, its actually safer. If you want to be super critical about safety, you shouldn't be touching the climate controls at all while driving, physical or not. The idea behind illegal texting and driving is you have to physically take your peripheral vision off the road too, and often look down, so you lose all driving awareness in front of you, and you likely aren't just hitting a single button that takes 5 seconds to hit and then you are done.

iDrive 8, you set the temperature, and you forget about it, only changing it very rarely if you need to, it auto regulates pretty well I am told.

Careful now, your going to give yourself whiplash with all of the mental gymnastics you just did (and tossing in a few strawmans for good measure too, nice!). I stated it kept your eyes off the road for longer periods of time, not that it didn't happen before. Facts are facts my friend, it now takes longer to do any manner of simple adjustments via tablet sub menus vs a simple button press and this will decrease safety. There will be accidents caused by this tablet fetish which is nothing more then cost-cutting wrapped in a pretty package btw. But hey as you mentioned driving is already dangerous so whats a few more distractions really going to do? I mean its not like every single one of us here has had a close call with someone who wasn't paying attention where had they been distracted another second or two would have resulted in serious injury or death.... Say you wouldn't be a manager at Volvo would ya?