[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Rk-d

I love the M2C, but the steering and dynamics of the Cayman blow away the BMW to be honest.

If the planets align next year, I'll likely sell my M235 for a 2017-2018 M2 DCT. I absolutely love the 2 series chassis. It is the perfect size car. The F87 M2 is just a classic and has a much better suspension than my M235.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

S3 is an overpriced Golf R with the old Haldex setup and a bad form factor. Forget that one.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

S3 is an overpriced Golf R with the old Haldex setup and a bad form factor. Forget that one.

What do you mean bad form factor? Did the mk7 golf r have the haldex? Yes the magna system is better but you can't get a mk8

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

What do you mean bad form factor? Did the mk7 golf r have the haldex? Yes the magna system is better but you can't get a mk8

I'm only a year into the wait, I had one on the Felicity Ace, oops. Still no word on when I'll get one, but lots of manuals just arrived, so maybe I'll get lucky. I just don't like sedans, would always prefer a hatch.

The 8y S3 is basically a carryover of the Mk7 R, with Haldex v5 and the evo2 version of the EA888. The Mk8 R gets the Magna setup and the evo4 EA888 with the Continental turbo. Early tunes have shown it has a lot more potential than the old IS38 turbo. I'd assume they'll refresh the S3, it doesn't make sense to have it lag the Golf R and 8Y RS3 for long.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'm only a year into the wait, I had one on the Felicity Ace, oops. Still no word on when I'll get one, but lots of manuals just arrived, so maybe I'll get lucky. I just don't like sedans, would always prefer a hatch.

The 8y S3 is basically a carryover of the Mk7 R, with Haldex v5 and the evo2 version of the EA888. The Mk8 R gets the Magna setup and the evo4 EA888 with the Continental turbo. Early tunes have shown it has a lot more potential than the old IS38 turbo. I'd assume they'll refresh the S3, it doesn't make sense to have it lag the Golf R and 8Y RS3 for long.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'm only a year into the wait, I had one on the Felicity Ace, oops. Still no word on when I'll get one, but lots of manuals just arrived, so maybe I'll get lucky. I just don't like sedans, would always prefer a hatch.

The 8y S3 is basically a carryover of the Mk7 R, with Haldex v5 and the evo2 version of the EA888. The Mk8 R gets the Magna setup and the evo4 EA888 with the Continental turbo. Early tunes have shown it has a lot more potential than the old IS38 turbo. I'd assume they'll refresh the S3, it doesn't make sense to have it lag the Golf R and 8Y RS3 for long.

Good to know.

I was referring to the 8V S3, to keep all the cars within the same budget. Chris Harris has some YouTube videos of him testing the mk7 R and he liked it so I assumed the 8V S3 would be decent.

Yes the MK8 is improved but an 8Y S3 is too expensive especially when you compare it to an R or GTI and has the older tech.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

If the planets align next year, I'll likely sell my M235 for a 2017-2018 M2 DCT. I absolutely love the 2 series chassis. It is the perfect size car. The F87 M2 is just a classic and has a much better suspension than my M235.

Have you considered KW V3 on the M235i? They seem to have a very civilized ride quality, for the M2 anyway. Might be an easy way to get improved suspension behavior without changing cars. The stock F87 setup isn't amazing either with the way it handles rebound.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Agreed on all and my 987.2 Cayman is totally stock at the moment. I plan on the shifter cables, Carnewal exhaust mod and their high flow cats, plus suspension and other minor performance/visual mods.

The 987s are definitely fairly easy to work on, but I do have to say, the price for certain parts is quite hilarious. I'm putting a clutch and flywheel in mine over the next couple of weeks at the price of $2,900.....from an independent Porsche mechanic! The Porsche dealer wanted nearly $5K for the same job using the same parts. I do the job myself if I had a lift as the job is really quite simple.

I caution anyone buying a "cheap" Porsche to be prepared to spend a lot of money maintaining it even if you have the skills to do most of the work yourself. I knew this going in and I'm willing to spend the money keeping it maintained because to me, the 987 Cayman is a pretty rare and timeless looking car and almost has a first gen NSX-like vibe which is another car I really love.

When I walk into a Porsche dealer (and they are freaking nice inside), I become immediately aware of my wallet lightening and that I don't belong. My Cayman cost what some Porsche buyers spend on freaking property tax on their new Porsche in my county. LOL

I would agree with this statement, love my 997 but parts and labour costs even at an ndy are absolutely astronomical.

[happyjack]

TBH, i thought all the cayman talk was insane given the budget is $30-40K, so i went shopping...this one probably has a few more miles than you might want, but it's a manual and looks really clean: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/7...-95f1c8d90338/

i do think M/T RWD is the right spec for this kind of "fun car"...and, as Alfisti has noted a couple of times, convertible should definitely be in play. maybe a boxster S if you really want a P-car? https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/c...-3f647be18f5a/

i'm definitely biased because i've loved both of my 2-series (228ix and M2C), and a manual, convertible M235/240 just seems perfect in this situation. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/e...-832f465df3ed/ and it will be much cheaper to own than any P-car.

[stein_325i]

I'll say it again, but Miata is always the answer. OP already has two practical cars, he doesn't need a hot hatch or four-door. A proper sports car (preferably roadster) would be a great addition to the garage. Miata also easily fits within budget.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

I'll say it again, but Miata is always the answer. OP already has two practical cars, he doesn't need a hot hatch or four-door. A proper sports car (preferably roadster) would be a great addition to the garage. Miata also easily fits within budget.

Which is why people are saying Boxster, it's a Miata with more power. To enjoy a Miata, you need very tight and twisty roads, there's no shove in the back so you better have the right conditions for it.

As to the comment above re, prices on Caymans and Boxsters, be careful, the cheaper end of the scale has the engine with both IMS issues and high potential for bore scoring so go in eyes wide open. I know the 911 market better and there's a solid 10K difference between an 08 and an 09 for this reason.

I wouldn't write off the Z4 TBH, especially the last one with the NA straight 6.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Which is why people are saying Boxster, it's a Miata with more power. To enjoy a Miata, you need very tight and twisty roads, there's no shove in the back so you better have the right conditions for it.

As to the comment above re, prices on Caymans and Boxsters, be careful, the cheaper end of the scale has the engine with both IMS issues and high potential for bore scoring so go in eyes wide open. I know the 911 market better and there's a solid 10K difference between an 08 and an 09 for this reason.

I wouldn't write off the Z4 TBH, especially the last one with the NA straight 6.

I wouldn't buy a Boxster without fun or twisty roads either, or any sports car for that matter.

Sounds like OP wants a new car though, and the budget goes as high as a Golf R at the high end, and his low end is a Civic Si which is much cheaper.

Like you said, to get a Boxster at the same price as an Si it will likely have to be significantly used and possibly with problem spots. I stand by the Miata and 2nd Gen BRZ/86 suggestion, if OP can fit in them, I see no reason as to why they wouldn't be the perfect third car solution.

[Alfisti]

I'd do a used Z4 over a new Miata every time and the other cars listed are sedan or hatches, imho a third car has gotta be a roadster or at least sports carish.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by BMWsully

I have been hankering to get back into a "fun MT" car as a weekend type driver and was planning on swapping the Fit out for one.

RWD M/T cars I've owned:

- RX-7
- MR-2
- Starion ESiR
- Miata
- S2000
- Exige

Without question the most fun, easiest to drive, and that carried the least worries in every way was the Miata. If I were to get another fun weekend car that's what it'd be.

Having said that, I haven't driven any of the newer cars, so I can't speak for them, mine was older.

The BRZ seems to be accepted as a generally fun car for the money, but the one I drove was, in a word, uninspiring.

The M2 is expensive, and SERIOUS. Same with the S2000. Same with the Exige. If that's your game, fine, but for fun, the Miata wins hands down IMO.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I'd do a used Z4 over a new Miata every time and the other cars listed are sedan or hatches, imho a third car has gotta be a roadster or at least sports carish.

Which Z4 though? The E89's are very numb, and heavy hardtops on a car that small always make no sense imo. The E85's are fun, but if you get the M version its buyer beware, I had a very temperamental Z4 M. Lovely to drive, but I didn't get to drive it that much sadly.

[Alfisti]

I don't know them that well, just feel they offer a good blend of power, look and comfort.

He could do it right and get a base (non S) 2009 911 soft top

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I don't know them that well, just feel they offer a good blend of power, look and comfort.

He could do it right and get a base (non S) 2009 911 soft top

The overall cost/maintenance/reliability leave the Z4 out for me. The Miata kills it in all of those areas. Are you choosing the Bimmer to look at, or to drive? No way it's more fun than the Miata, no way in hell. Yes, it has more power, but that doesn't make it more fun, not by a long shot.

Z4 for the looks, power, status.
Miata for everything else.

[Alfisti]

I dunno, everytime i drive a Miata i want more HP. It's really ideal in europe.

[3798j]

My recommending the Golf R was for two reasons...OP's comment about wanting a back seat and the fact that the vehicle is so easy to really hustle down a curvy back road. Now that two-seaters are being suggested, let me add the Z 3.0si coupe. Truly a joy to drive and a guarantee to start a conversation every time you fill-up at the gas station...most folks haven't seen one. Low mileage ones auctioning recently on B.A.T have gaveled in the mid-twenties.

[Mr Friese]

I guess I'll be the odd duck that suggests the Civic Si. Not sure that you can find another sub-30ish new car with a back seat and MT that is as much fun.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

I guess I'll be the odd duck that suggests the Civic Si. Not sure that you can find another sub-30ish new car with a back seat and MT that is as much fun.

Is it fun? That 1.5L is a mess, it's slow and really large, without much space inside. A GTI S isn't much more expensive, has 40 more horsepower and 80lb/ft more, it's 16" shorter and doesn't give up much interior space.

It is a lot less sporty, it's got a very smooth ride and certainly feels more civilized than my GTI. But fun wouldn't be a term I'd use for it. Plus the tuning potential of the GTI is huge compared to the Honda.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I'd do a used Z4 over a new Miata every time and the other cars listed are sedan or hatches, imho a third car has gotta be a roadster or at least sports carish.

I'd always take the 1,000 pound lighter car, unless I just wanted a highway bruiser, and that's not really the realm of either car.

[DB_Cooper]

Again, the only option that makes sense is an S2000.

Better than a Z4, Miata, 718, Golf R, etc.

Obv you have to decide if a rear seat is really that important.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Which is why people are saying Boxster, it's a Miata with more power. To enjoy a Miata, you need very tight and twisty roads, there's no shove in the back so you better have the right conditions for it.

My thoughts as well. I test drove a 2022 Miata RF 6MT back in the summer. I figured the extra power in the ND2 would be enough (upper 5s 0-60, mid-14s@97mph 1/4 mile). The acceleration was decent, but there was hardly any shove at full throttle. But what struck me most was the total lack of drama. The induction sounds and exhaust were really quiet and the drivetrain very smooth. I guess I was hoping for a strong and deep induction wail and some vibration like a older Honda VTEC. Intakes on the ND2 only hurt power and are excessively loud and exhausts tend to drone. As such, I had to scratch the car off the list.

I then looked at 2003-2004 Z06s but the biggest turn off was the lack of parts for common failure areas like weather seals, ABS and electronics components, and OEM wheels.

I ultimately went with a 2011 Cayman 6MT base model (265hp/221tq). The car is good for ~5.4 0-60 and 13.8s@102mph. The car has more acceleration and shove than the ND2 Miata and way more audible/sensory drama, especially after I removed the intake cover/shield on the driver's side intake grill. The car feels and sounds way quicker than it really is which is fine by me. My Stage 2 M235 6MT suffices when I really want torque shove and silly acceleration.

Miatas aren't bad cars at all. Two friends have NB Miatas with basic Flyin Miata turbo kits, coil overs, wheels, and grippy tires as well. Those cars an absolute blast with those turbos. I have a soft spot for the NC and the 2.5 Ford I4 motor swap.